1. #1

    How did the Burning Legion create the scourge? They look like 2 very different powers

    Checking the new lore books, and seeing the expansion, it really feels like the scourge could not come from the legion itself.

    I mean, the legion feels like a wrecking ball of destruction and nothing more.

    You'd expect that the same people that brought you the scourge would have some sophisticated arsenal but until now it all feel like green goo and brute force.

  2. #2
    Dreadlords are necromancers. Its literally just that.

  3. #3
    Dreadlords experimented with the void for unknown millennia before Sargeras met them, and the Void is right next to Death magic on the Warcraft cosmology chart, which suggests the two magics are closer to each other than any other kind of magic.

    We even have an old god (representative of the Void) claiming to be the "god of Death". The Legion uses arcane and fel and death magic, so it's not unreasonable to think Void creatures can also use other schools of magic.

  4. #4
    It may have more to do with Ner'zhul's powers, he was adept at necromancy and the Legion enhanced him, raising tons of undead and putting him in charge of the Scourge army.

    It's true that the Legion can also raise undead (even nowadays, in-game, we have necromancers in Broken Shore and tons of felbound spirits all over the Isles), but they don't seem interested in raising an army. Not sure if it's because it's more practical to just swarm with demons, or because The Lich King may still be able to command them - although that makes one wonder why they haven't tried to kill him in full force (not that fiasco with Mal'Ganis and the Scarlet Onslaught) and have the Scourge back into Legion control.

  5. #5
    There are those within the Burning Legion with necromantic capability. Perhaps not full blown dedicated necromancers, but as stated above the nathrezim have necromantic powers.

    As taken from the WoWpedia.org page,

    The Burning Legion had experimented with the undead for at least ten thousand years, with the first hint of the Scourge's creation being an experiment by the nathrezim to raise undead night elves in the ruins of Suramar during the War of the Ancients.
    It was just a matter of creating a singular figure (Ner'zhul) to control and manage the newly created undead (the Scourge) for the Legion's purposes.
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  6. #6
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    The Nathrezim are the premier necromancers in the wow canon. They worshipped an old god for millennia and only joined the Burning Legion at Sargeras' promise of an even greater power. They forged Frostmourne, they forged the helm of Dominion and then bound Nerzul to it. All of thier abilities are death-magic related. Remember the Legion prelaunch invasions? There were Dreadlord bosses with various themes traditionally associated with Apocalypse: death, pestilence, famine, etc.

    I remember reading somewhere that the 'Look' of the scourge was defined by the aesthetic tastes of the Nerubians, who were the first civilization conquered and assimilated by the Lich king in the Scourge's infancy. Remember that the Nerubian cities we saw in Wrath were something of a retcon for content that ended up getting cut from launch.
    Last edited by Nihilan; 2017-09-20 at 09:57 PM.

  7. #7
    I am Murloc! ArgusTheUnmaker's Avatar
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    Kil'jaeden= Found that Antorus was too hot, and wanted to make a CHILL Boss for WoW (Which he succeeded at).

    Dreadlords= Made the Helm, and Frostmourne out of their powers, so that KJ could have his Chill, Badass Boss.

    And Sargeras= That 1 guy who's LITTERALLY on fire, and expects this to bite Kil'jaeden in the back (Which it did, since...well...both He, and Arthas are dead, while He isn't).

    I mean, come on. Sargeras is litterally on FUCKING FIRE, and Kil'jaeden complains about the heat? Cmon now.

  8. #8
    Magic is a double edge sword etc . Reckon LK has dominion over the undead on Azeroth. Believe Jaina will eventually lead the necromancers when introduced ...
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  9. #9
    I am Murloc! ArgusTheUnmaker's Avatar
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    Also, note that the PINNACLE of 2 faction capitals go from:

    The Frozen Throne (Where The Lich King resides)

    And, The Burning Throne (Where Sargeras goes to commune with Aggramar, and where the Titan Spirits lay dormant. Must I mention Argus' Titan Soul?)

    So...yeah.

  10. #10
    Stood in the Fire LarryWithTheWeatherReport's Avatar
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    The Legion created something that has the potential to surpass them which was why big K was sitting his pants when the scourge broke free.
    Azeroth >> Blood Titan >> Void Titan >> Blood God G'huun >> Sargeras >> Argus the Unmaker >> Void Lord >> Locus Walker >> Alleria >> N'zoth >> Pantheon Spirits >> Azshara >> Rasktakhan >> Bwonsamdi >> Jaina >> Anduin >> Sylvanas >> Genn >> Lich King >> Yogg Saron >> Kil'jaeden >> Archimonde >> Odyn >> Zul >> Helya >> Deathwing >> Velen > Illidan >>

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by LarryWithTheWeatherReport View Post
    The Legion created something that has the potential to surpass them which was why big K was sitting his pants when the scourge broke free.
    KJ wasn't shitting his pants, he was pissed about the betrayal.
    KJ doesn't take betrayal lightly, just look at his reaction to Velen 25K years ago.

    Ner'zhul was the one shitting his pants. He only dared attempt independence once the Legion forces were wiped out at Hyjal. As soon as Arch popped into Dalaran, he declared the LK useless and gave command of the Scourge to the nathrezim.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

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  12. #12
    Death, void, and decay are all different types of magic, but they weave together well. Yogg-Saron is the Old God of Death, but he is a creation of the Void. Dreadlords are demons created by fel (that was created by the Void and Light slamming into one another), but they worshiped an Old God eons ago, and have always had necromancy/carrion as their main power - they even practiced necromancy on Azeroth during the War of the Ancients. Darkened Naaru can beckon, manipulate, and corrupt spirits - we see this in Shadowmoon (WoD), Nagrand (BC & WoD), and Mac'Aree. "Decay" is also an element, like fire, water, air, earth, and spirit that is mostly unrelated to undeath, but it does allow shamans to forcibly control the elements. We also see other demons (even eredar) that use plenty of shadow/void magic, especially by taming/jailing voidwalkers.

    Ner'zhul was a shaman of the Shadowmoon clan, where K'ara had landed as a darkened Naaru. His clan eventually became warlocks (mostly led by Gul'dan) in the Burning Legion, even using their powers to corrupt and bring down Cyrukh the Firelord. Ner'zhul was used by Kil'jaeden, where he eventually tried to flee Draenor and was captured by KJ. His spirit was stuffed into a helm, armor, and he was given a sword, all of which were made by Nathrezim/Dreadlords, and the Lich King was born. Dreadlords were then used as the Lich King's jailers. The Scourge came about when grain in human nations was plagued by the Lich King, and they were initially used as an extension of the Burning Legion. Fast forward many years, and the Scourge broke free from the Legion under a "new" Lich King, where they use the blood of the Old God of Death in their armor, weapons, and buildings.

    tl;dr - it's a combination of a lot of different powers and people that all happened to be at the "right" place at the "right" time. There are also other powers shown in the Burning Legion, or demons in general, that aren't fel.
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  13. #13
    The Nathrezim are skilled Necromancers and Necromancy is just another school of magic that the Eredar also studied. You can read the lore behind Apocalypse and Ulthaless for a lot more information. As for the aesthetics of the Scourge as others have said they are primarily Nerubian; the necropoli are Nerubian step pyramids. Some of the architecture may even be ancient Aqir and be part of Yogg'Saron's area of the Black Empire (e.g. Naz'anak)

  14. #14
    I do see some similarities with the Legion and the Scourge, one are the use of those Fel Spreaders, which totally remind of wait for it.... Blight spreaders. Anyway they are similar devices. Also The inquisitor demons seem to incorporated icy spells, mirroring or mocking liches or are the Legion's variant of liches. While sadly we don't get to delve deeper into their culture, or most notable the Dread lord lore. We do see how some quests the legion is actively using necromancy, albeit by proxy Fel totem. I do recall as a Death Knight there is a world quest on the Broken Shore, Bolvar takes interest into "studying" the necromancy techniques of the Legion.

  15. #15
    Stood in the Fire Daevelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    KJ wasn't shitting his pants, he was pissed about the betrayal.
    KJ doesn't take betrayal lightly, just look at his reaction to Velen 25K years ago.

    Ner'zhul was the one shitting his pants. He only dared attempt independence once the Legion forces were wiped out at Hyjal. As soon as Arch popped into Dalaran, he declared the LK useless and gave command of the Scourge to the nathrezim.
    Only semi true. The LK is the entire reason the legion lost at Hyjal. Unless we're going to ignore him sending Arthas to Illidan so they could have Illidan take out a key component of the legions forces at Hyjal, resulting in their loss? You know, the whole Skull of Gul'dan thing?

    The LK had his plans in motion long before the fall of Hyjal.

    Kil'Jaedens reaction is also likely a mix of anger and fear. It is common knowledge that the Lich King's power was growing daily and would eventually overtake even the likes of Kil'Jaeden, and he knew this. But of course, people would not DARE suspect that the great and all powerful demon lord of the legion would show fear to subordinates, would they?

  16. #16
    So... Scourge is a mix of Light, Void and Fel? That could never end well...

  17. #17
    I think the OP's point is that in this expansion the Legion have been all about just smashy green destruction and none of the cunning plans, dark intellect and subtle manipulation they used to be.

    I kind of agree. There have been no Dreadlord masterminds, Kil'jaeden is a moron, and all the Legion are even doing is running around screaming "me demon, me smash".

  18. #18
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    Well, we all know that Jaina is a Dreadlord. So maybe once KJ's "Break all the Things" version of the Legion is dead, the crafty Dreadlords will once again have their chance to practice their sneaks and manipulations.

    How much of an utter mindfuck would it be if Velen turned out to be a Dreadlord and his leading us back to Argus was an attempt to use the might of Azeroth's unbeatable champions to usurp Kiljaeden. We know Malganis was able to wield/grant holy magic, or something very close to it to the Scarlet Crusade. Lothraxion is a Dreadlord that uses holy magic as well, even if he is "redeemed".
    Last edited by Nihilan; 2017-09-21 at 02:22 PM.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Daevelian View Post
    Only semi true. The LK is the entire reason the legion lost at Hyjal. Unless we're going to ignore him sending Arthas to Illidan so they could have Illidan take out a key component of the legions forces at Hyjal, resulting in their loss? You know, the whole Skull of Gul'dan thing?

    The LK had his plans in motion long before the fall of Hyjal.
    Yes. Only act through subterfuge because he was scared shitless of open rebellion until the Legion forces were wiped out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daevelian View Post
    Kil'Jaedens reaction is also likely a mix of anger and fear. It is common knowledge that the Lich King's power was growing daily and would eventually overtake even the likes of Kil'Jaeden, and he knew this. But of course, people would not DARE suspect that the great and all powerful demon lord of the legion would show fear to subordinates, would they?
    Yes, that is common fanon. Doesn't make it true. KJ didn't give 2 shits about the LK when he came to Azeroth in person in TBC and the LK was even more powerful. Velen's short story shows that even a more terrible LK than Arthas or Ner'zhul with a fully Scourged Azeroth would be nothing to the Legion.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

    RPG is non-canon by default. (MickyNeilson)

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Yes, that is common fanon. Doesn't make it true. KJ didn't give 2 shits about the LK when he came to Azeroth in person in TBC and the LK was even more powerful. Velen's short story shows that even a more terrible LK than Arthas or Ner'zhul with a fully Scourged Azeroth would be nothing to the Legion.
    To be fair we have no idea what transpired when the Legion came to that dead Azeroth, the story does not say anything of the alternate Lich King facing the Legion at all, we don't know if that Lich King simply surrendered or even joined the Legion willingly, had a huge war that spanned centuries or if the Legion just steam rolled over them.

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