Less than 20% of Americans say they're living the American Dream

[Fugus]

Youre a fool if you think renters do not pay property tax. Its baked in to the rental amount (also the main reason that rent goes up almost every year when you renew your lease)

^ This

Where I live, it is a crap place, rent for most people would be about $500 per month. If it is paid off, the property taxes for this place is about $190 per YEAR.

The house beside me, can rent for about $1,000 per month. The property taxes for the place comes to about $700 per YEAR.

The money you save owning is far more than the money you save renting.

The big thing is, if you are buying, you pay a decent chunk up front for the down payment and pay typically less per month in a house payment then if you rented that same place. After it is paid off, you pay a fraction of that in property taxes.

When you rent, you are paying that property tax, you are paying the cost for repairs to the house and all of that because it is baked into the cost of the rent with enough for the owner to turn a profit, otherwise he wouldn't be renting it unless you were family or friends and he wasn't doing it for the money.

[Nfinitii]

So I take it you make over $250,000 and get your money mostly through dividends?

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While I disagree with you on most things, this is one of the most logical and correct things I have ever seen you post.

Did u not look at Bernie's tax plan, he was increasing taxes on everyone. Even the poor.

[Fugus]

Did u not look at Bernie's tax plan, he was increasing taxes on everyone. Even the poor.

I looked at his tax plan. The middle class took maybe a 2% increase while getting single payer healthcare that worked out to be cheaper than what we have now and saving them money overall.

The main people who got anything substantial was those making over $250,000 per year through dividends as capital gains above $250,000 per year was taxed like normal income. And they added more tax brackets at the top for those making millions per year.


The increase for the poor worked out to saving them money in the long run.

[Hammerfest]

This statistic (in the OP) is not surprising since nobody knows what the American Dream is supposed to be anymore.

[Allybeboba]

People’s “dreams” differ.

[Seranthor]

^ This

Where I live, it is a crap place, rent for most people would be about $500 per month. If it is paid off, the property taxes for this place is about $190 per YEAR.

The house beside me, can rent for about $1,000 per month. The property taxes for the place comes to about $700 per YEAR.

The money you save owning is far more than the money you save renting.

The big thing is, if you are buying, you pay a decent chunk up front for the down payment and pay typically less per month in a house payment then if you rented that same place. After it is paid off, you pay a fraction of that in property taxes.

When you rent, you are paying that property tax, you are paying the cost for repairs to the house and all of that because it is baked into the cost of the rent with enough for the owner to turn a profit, otherwise he wouldn't be renting it unless you were family or friends and he wasn't doing it for the money.

While we've had our spats, I have to agree with you here on this particular matter.

[Wildtree]

Youre a fool if you think renters do not pay property tax. Its baked in to the rental amount (also the main reason that rent goes up almost every year when you renew your lease)

What has that got to do with anything?

YOU were the one making the claim how you don't have any costs once your house is paid off, after 20 - 30 years.
I simply debunked that part.

Tenants and their rent weren't the issue at all. Unless, of course, you as landlord pay income tax on that rent you charge.
Besides, no sane person, tenant or owner alike wants to deal with yearly leases. Both sides are usually interested in a settled situation.
As pointed out earlier, I know a thing or two about these things. They're part of how I make a living.

Where I live, it is a crap place, rent for most people would be about $500 per month. If it is paid off, the property taxes for this place is about $190 per YEAR.

Where is that?
There's just a handful of states that have less than 1% property value as yearly tax. Most are around the 2% mark. Some are slightly above that.
Your example of a house there would translate into a $19.000 home at a rate of 1% tax.

The house beside me, can rent for about $1,000 per month. The property taxes for the place comes to about $700 per YEAR.

As above.. Property tax depends on the property value.

The money you save owning is far more than the money you save renting.

You don't save anything when you rent. Unless you want to call the mortgage interest rate some saving. Obviously a tenant has no such costs.
The tenant insurance is cheaper and not required by law, unlike home owners have to have home insurance.

The big thing is, if you are buying, you pay a decent chunk up front for the down payment and pay typically less per month in a house payment then if you rented that same place.

False..
You pay a small chunk as down payment. The mortgage payments are usually higher than the rent would be for the place. If you really want to go the other route and cut the mortgage so low per month that it's below a comparable rent, you'll never gonna pay it off because the interest rates will eat you alive.

After it is paid off, you pay a fraction of that in property taxes.

Also false.
What you owe on the house has zero impact on your property tax burden. The property tax you owe depends on the value of your property. That's due no matter if you have a mortgage to pay or not.

When you rent, you are paying that property tax, you are paying the cost for repairs to the house and all of that because it is baked into the cost of the rent with enough for the owner to turn a profit, otherwise he wouldn't be renting it unless you were family or friends and he wasn't doing it for the money.

No, you are not paying any property tax as tenant. That isn't even legal. The property owner owes the tax, not you as tenant.
The landlord claims many of the expenses in his/her tax return.
Any rent is a factual income, which is subject to taxation as well. That's why you pay more on rent.
Your rent is the offset of the landlord to not lose any money on the maintenance etc.
Besides, you cannot compare rental property with regular residency. That's two completely different mechanisms.
Completely different tax systems at work too.

[Orange Joe]

Majority of americans live in major cities. People refusing to leave their concrete jungle to the greener pasture of affordable housing is the chief cause of this problem. Solution is to move out of the city.

Housing isn't that cheap in the country either. It's just as bad when you consider the average wage is much much lower.

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Obviously people are going to choose



over this

Bottom for me thank you.

[Pipboi]

Millennials and hard work in the same article... lol...

That's funny, because whenever I go to visit my parents at their respective jobs, I can't believe how much time is spent chatting or fidgeting with smart phones. My friends all seem to have had the same experience in their own fields. I can't even count the number of times I've had to fill in or pick up the slack for my boomer coworkers. I stack bags and drive a fork lift all day in open air warehouses whether it's -25 below or 90 and 100% humidity. (Minnesota sucks) and my coworker who primarily just makes deliveries, will spend 2 hours on a 30 minute run. He'll stop to smoke a cigarette or just bullshit around with whoever he's delivering to, and hasn't been fired because he's worked there for like 20 years.

It's almost as if you can find hard workers and lazy people in all age groups, and marginalizing an entire generation of people under a single baseless stereotype is fucking idiotic.

[Tennis]

Bingo.

Tennisace is straight filth on this forum. Always posting shit to get people riled-up, and then never posts in the thread again.

Fucking waste, Tennisace.

I'm filth yet you're the one flaming me?

[Stelio Kontos]

I'm filth yet you're the one flaming me?

Does flushing shit down the toilet make someone shit themselves?

[Sunseeker]

If everyone moves out of the big cities it will create new big cities and housing costs will increase accordingly.

Not to mention, it should come as absolutely no shock that there is a major lack of jobs "out of the city". Cities exist, and people live in them, for a very good reason.

[Fugus]

Where is that?
There's just a handful of states that have less than 1% property value as yearly tax. Most are around the 2% mark. Some are slightly above that.
Your example of a house there would translate into a $19.000 home at a rate of 1% tax.

I live in Hope Mills, North Carolina.

My father owns the place I am in. It is a 1 and half bedroom single wide trailer made around 1969 or so. It is a crap hole place but what I have till the VA is done with paperwork.

The overall price you can charge for rent even in a place like this is about $500 per month and people will still line up to rent it. The overall worth of the house is next to nothing while the price for the 1.03 Acre lot I am on is worth about $168,000 thanks to the nearby Walmart Distribution Center that opened nearby. The taxes for this place was right around $170 or so. I know that because that bill just came in the mail less than a week ago and had to run it to my dad.


He also owns the place next door, it is a double wide trailer and can rent out for $1,000 per month easy. It is on about 0.97 acres of land worth almost what mine is. The property taxes on that was about $700 total. It came in the mail the same day as the taxes for this place.


Not sure how the rates are here off the top of my head because I never checked because I don't own one yet of my own. But that is what the bills were when I looked at them.

Edit for the rest of it:

You may consider it a small chunk compared to the total amount, but typically most people consider thousands down to be a big chunk.

And your monthly payments can vary depending on how far out you are paying it off in and how big your deposit is. If you pay a low deposit and then try and pay it off in 5 years or something, then the prices will be high. If you pay off a decent chunk at the beginning and get a longer mortgage, you typically pay less than rent would be.

And when I said "After it is paid off, you pay a fraction of that in property taxes.", What I was talking about was how you pay a fraction in property taxes owning place than you pay in rent every month renting a place of equal quality and location.

And this

No, you are not paying any property tax as tenant. That isn't even legal. The property owner owes the tax, not you as tenant.
The landlord claims many of the expenses in his/her tax return.
Any rent is a factual income, which is subject to taxation as well. That's why you pay more on rent.
Your rent is the offset of the landlord to not lose any money on the maintenance etc.
Besides, you cannot compare rental property with regular residency. That's two completely different mechanisms.
Completely different tax systems at work too.

You must not understand what I said.

I said that you are still paying for the cost of the taxes, the repairs and all that because you are. Not directly though, you are paying for it all because all of those expenses are baked into the cost of rent so they can cover all of that and still make a profit.

You had to know what I was talking about I would have thought.

[MasterOfNone]

Then they are going to have a hard time when the independent candidates have more in common with their base than they do. Independents voters already make up the biggest voting block and likely to continue to grow.

And if they (Republicans included) don't start setting up a system where 3rd parties become more viable, then things will continue to get more rocky for them so long as they keep chasing donors rather than voters.

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Expert, hardly. Educated on the subject matter enough to know better than what you are saying, definitely.

so your way cause your word...got it....

[Fugus]

so your way cause your word...got it....

Not at all, my word is as worthless as yours online when dealing with people I don't know and don't know me.

The facts though, they are what matter and what I was talking about. You can ignore everything I said and go check yourself is you would like.

Independents are the biggest group of voters. That isn't my word, that is a fact. You can check yourself.
Independents are growing in representation as a percentage while Democrats and Republicans are shrinking. That isn't my word, that is a fact. You can check yourself.

The more the parties ignore their voters to chase donors, the less inclined the voters will be to listen to them and the more they will desire to do away with the current system where no party represents them. This is conjecture but one you can reasonably agree unless you have an alternative that doesn't involve them just setting their and taking it as they visibly aren't wanting to do.

So, like I said before. I am not expert. I am just educated on the subject matter enough to know better than what you are saying.

[Independent voter]

San Francisco, California $3600
San Jose, California $2536
New York, New York $2200
Washington, DC $2172
Boston, Massachusetts $2025
Los Angeles, California $2014
Miami, Florida $2000
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania $1850
Honolulu, Hawaii $1795
Seattle, Washington $1795
San Diego, California $1760
Anaheim, California $1606
Chicago, Illinois $1595
Denver, Colorado $1436
Minneapolis, Minnesota $1435
Nashville, Tennessee $1395
Atlanta, Georgia $1387
Houston, Texas $1308
New Orleans, Louisiana $1298
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania $1295
Dallas, Texas $1271
Charlotte, North Carolina $1265
Baltimore, Maryland $1175
Tampa, Florida $1100
Austin, Texas $1100
Portland, Oregon $1095
Anchorage, Alaska $995
Sacramento, California $995
Virginia Beach, Virginia $975
Phoenix, Arizona $909
Jacksonville, Florida $896
Las Vegas, Nevada $875
Newark, New Jersey $850
Memphis, Tennessee $835
San Antonio, Texas $830
Kansas City, Missouri $795
Omaha, Nebraska $759
Colorado Springs, Colorado $750
Milwaukee, Wisconsin $750
Louisville, Kentucky $750
Columbus, Ohio $750
Indianapolis, Indiana $732
Albuquerque, New Mexico $715
St. Louis, Missouri $700
Oklahoma City, Oklahoma $650
El Paso, Texas $600
Tuscon, Arizona $560
Detroit, Michigan $550
Cleveland, Ohio $525
Wichita, Kansas $470


Average rent for a one bedroom apartment in different cities, and like a lot of these lists these amounts are kind of high, best neighborhood, newer apartments etc.