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  1. #581
    Old God Haven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macaquerie View Post
    Why do Russians always bring up bombing Yugoslavia? Okay, we did do that, but we had bombed plenty of countries before and we have bombed plenty of countries since, Yugoslavia was just Tuesday.
    Okay, I could bring up any other country where Muricans have arbitrarily killed people to take their resources... Yugoslavia is just an example of a country that was successfully split because might makes right.
    If you're not being manipulated, then you're handled by professionals.

  2. #582
    Quote Originally Posted by Haven View Post
    Okay, I could bring up any other country where Muricans have arbitrarily killed people to take their resources... Yugoslavia is just an example of a country that was successfully split because might makes right.
    I am fairly certain that they did not bomb that country for its nonexistant resources. They bombed it as a distraction.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tauror View Post
    Actually, the situation is getting dire for the Catalan independence, not for Spanish. More and more companies are leaving the region, taking away the only reason for the independence.

    https://elpais.com/elpais/2017/10/10...62_850506.html

    All Rajoy needs to do is to stall. Puigdemont and the Catalan nationalists are managing to destroy the one thing that made them strong, the economy.
    Yup, the boat seems to have sailed. This is a massive amount of corporate flight.

  3. #583
    Rajoy has accorded to /formally require/ the Catalan government to confirm if they have declared independence.
    Emphasis on "require" because that is the formulation of the prerequisite to trigger the famous article 155.

    I think, this is a firm and very measured response. One that verbalizes the popular sentiment that is surely crossing the minds of every Spanish people, Catalan or not: what in the world did happen yesterday?.


    As an aside, the socialist party has announced that an agreement was reached with Rajoy to start a commission, and later Parliamentary debate, about constitutional reform regarding the structure of the State and its autonomous constituents.

  4. #584
    Immortal Grimbold21's Avatar
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    Hasnt Rajoy started the proceedings to rescind the region's autonomy?

  5. #585
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimbold21 View Post
    Hasnt Rajoy started the proceedings to rescind the region's autonomy?
    Presumably, he's started the process that would trigger article 155 of the constitution, by formally requiring the Catalan government to explain itself (the second step would be to acquire the Senate's consent, in which PP has a majority anyway).

    If a Self-governing Community does not fulfil the obligations imposed upon it by the Constitution or other laws, or acts in a way t1hat is seriously prejudicial to the general interest of Spain, the Government, after having lodged a complaint with the President of the Self-governing Community and failed to receive satisfaction therefore, may, following approval granted by the overall majority of the Senate, take all measures necessary to compel the Community to meet said obligations, or to protect the abovementioned general interest.
    With a view to implementing the measures provided for in the foregoing paragraph, the Government may issue instructions to all the authorities of the Self-governing Communities


    As you can see, the article is pretty vague in what the implementation would be. "All measures necessary" may or may not include rescinding their autonomy. It may simply mean that their government is deposed and Catalans can have new regional elections.
    Some people are of the opinion that rescinding the autonomy, or any of their institutions cannot be interpreted as a necessary measure. Some think it could mean the State assumes temporarily the functions of some regional institutions, but without deposing them. The application is uncharted territory, we don't know how far the necessary measures go, and there's no organic law organizing how it's applied.

    What it means, so far, is that the ball is back in the side of the Catalan government to fulfill the requirement and explain exactly what yesterday's events were about.
    Last edited by sefrimutro; 2017-10-11 at 03:30 PM.

  6. #586
    Well for those of you that want a little trivia: The Catalan Republic is the shortest country ever-lived with an estimated amount of 8 seconds.

  7. #587
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I am fairly certain that they did not bomb that country for its nonexistant resources. They bombed it as a distraction.
    That case, yes, political gain rather than material.
    If you're not being manipulated, then you're handled by professionals.

  8. #588
    Quote Originally Posted by Haven View Post
    Okay, I could bring up any other country where Muricans have arbitrarily killed people to take their resources... Yugoslavia is just an example of a country that was successfully split because might makes right.
    What the hell?

    Yugoslavia was an failure from when it was created, it was NEVER a real country. And it split because the regions could not get along not because of American interference.

  9. #589
    Quote Originally Posted by Maklor View Post
    What the hell?

    Yugoslavia was an failure from when it was created, it was NEVER a real country. And it split because the regions could not get along not because of American interference.
    You're right. Yugoslavia was never truly united. Talking about split is probably the wrong choice of word. Separated again would be the better terminology.
    Don't confuse me with the US-Slant. I'm the EU-Slant. :P
    Due to unfavourable interactions with inexperienced moderators: Whatever I posted above is in no way meant to offend. Having said that, not having my sense of humour is entirely your problem, not mine. Stop being a baby. - This disclaimer was sponsored by "Infraction: 5 points for minor flaming."

  10. #590
    The Insane
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maklor View Post
    What the hell?

    Yugoslavia was an failure from when it was created, it was NEVER a real country. And it split because the regions could not get along not because of American interference.
    Obviously the real solution was to return the area to Habsburg rule.

  11. #591
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    You're right. Yugoslavia was never truly united. Talking about split is probably the wrong choice of word. Separated again would be the better terminology.
    Tito kept everything working. Sure there were many ethnic groups in Yugoslavia but all that was needed to keep them all content was a government that did not favor the Serbs due to their significantly greater population to everyone else. Go back enough in time and almost every major European country was in a similar state before it unified; all of them were never truly united before they suddenly were.

  12. #592
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Tito kept everything working. Sure there were many ethnic groups in Yugoslavia but all that was needed to keep them all content was a government that did not favor the Serbs due to their significantly greater population to everyone else. Go back enough in time and almost every major European country was in a similar state before it unified; all of them were never truly united before they suddenly were.
    Well like most dictators, Tito created a cult of dependency where the unity of the country was entirely contingent on him being there to call the shots, but since this was intended solely to entrench his own power and not to promote genuine unity, it all fell apart after he died. And really, the identity politics in the Balkans are just far too toxic for anyone to ever truly resolve.

  13. #593
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Tito kept everything working. Sure there were many ethnic groups in Yugoslavia but all that was needed to keep them all content was a government that did not favor the Serbs due to their significantly greater population to everyone else. Go back enough in time and almost every major European country was in a similar state before it unified; all of them were never truly united before they suddenly were.
    Yes, that's right. But usually nation states also had outside pressure uniting them against something.
    Don't confuse me with the US-Slant. I'm the EU-Slant. :P
    Due to unfavourable interactions with inexperienced moderators: Whatever I posted above is in no way meant to offend. Having said that, not having my sense of humour is entirely your problem, not mine. Stop being a baby. - This disclaimer was sponsored by "Infraction: 5 points for minor flaming."

  14. #594
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maklor View Post
    What the hell?

    Yugoslavia was an failure from when it was created, it was NEVER a real country. And it split because the regions could not get along not because of American interference.
    Same goes for Ukraine, yet EU and US seem to be upset about it
    If you're not being manipulated, then you're handled by professionals.

  15. #595
    Quote Originally Posted by Haven View Post
    Same goes for Ukraine, yet EU and US seem to be upset about it
    LOL, so now you agree that your comment was wrong!

    And no the same does not go for Ukraine.

  16. #596
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maklor View Post
    LOL, so now you agree that your comment was wrong!

    And no the same does not go for Ukraine.
    Why? It was always an appendix rather than a country of its own. Russian Empire and then USSR gave it everything, including industry and jurisdiction over territories (like Crimea), and a very generous degree of autonomy. They still can't enforce ethnic identity because not everyone there even speaks Ukrainian, but everyone speaks Russian, it's just hilarious.
    If you're not being manipulated, then you're handled by professionals.

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