View Poll Results: What do you prefer?

Voters
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  • I like to fight Big Threats like Old Gods etc

    52 26.80%
  • I like to fight Small Time Outlaws

    101 52.06%
  • Other

    41 21.13%
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  1. #81
    The Lightbringer ReleaseDay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sliske View Post
    Both, but neither is the problem.

    The problem with WoW villains is that they are all carbon copies

    1. They all hate you because they hate all mortals
    2. They routinely call you 'mortal filth'
    3. They all don't just want your destruction, but EVERYTHINGS destruction. The entire universe.
    4. They all die with the line "this is not over" or "fools, you dont know what you're doing!" or some other bullshit.

    The villains are not interesting.

    Not every villain has to be immortal. Not every villain has to hate all mortals. Not every villain has to want the destruction of the universe. Not all villains have to die by telling us we're idiots and just made a big mistake.

    But hey, we're talking about Blizzard writers.
    This. It's like a disney movie, fucking embarrassing.
    There was no such thing as "ability bloat" just l2fp.

  2. #82
    Pandaren Monk Aoyi's Avatar
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    I like a good mix of both. I feel having a "big bad" is good for expansion wide story lines, but I like dungeons that tell smaller stories within them. Especially when the lore for the dungeon is set up well in the zone leading up to it.

  3. #83
    Warchief
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    Quote Originally Posted by ovm33 View Post
    I defeated Illidan in battle. I killed Arthas, Deathwing, Multiple Old Gods, cleansed the Emerald Dream. I've left mountains of corpses in my Wake. I'm the leader of all the (Insert Class Here.) I've single handedly killed enough orcs to bury Ogrimar in bones. I am the equal, if not flat out superior, to most of the lore characters in WoW. How many times have I had to save their asses now? I've lost count.

    I'm sorry Village Mayor that these Kobold's are raiding your town... Let me dispatch some of my followers to deal with such a matter.

    I've moved beyond the days of being a simple adventurer. I'm no longer just a nameless face in the crowd.

    "I'm the kinda G that little homies want to be like"
    Don't forget to complete the next poo/shit/guano quest Blizzard will drop on you on the next expansion.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Sliske View Post
    Both, but neither is the problem.

    The problem with WoW villains is that they are all carbon copies

    1. They all hate you because they hate all mortals
    2. They routinely call you 'mortal filth'
    3. They all don't just want your destruction, but EVERYTHINGS destruction. The entire universe.
    4. They all die with the line "this is not over" or "fools, you dont know what you're doing!" or some other bullshit.

    The villains are not interesting.

    Not every villain has to be immortal. Not every villain has to hate all mortals. Not every villain has to want the destruction of the universe. Not all villains have to die by telling us we're idiots and just made a big mistake.

    But hey, we're talking about Blizzard writers.
    This is very generalising of you, I'm sure you have proof that all villains are the same though right

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
    This is very generalising of you, I'm sure you have proof that all villains are the same though right
    Do it for me since you insist i'm wrong - tell me the goal of the Old Gods, the Burning Legion, the Lich King, The Elemental Lords and the Void.

    After that, tell me if you've heard them repeatedly call you 'Mortal Filth' or not, and tell me if the only reason you know of for them hating you, is that you're mortals

    Then, tell me how many of them didn't die with some bullshit - such as "this isn't over" or "there must always be a..." or some equally uninteresting, closure void death

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Sliske View Post
    Then, tell me how many of them didn't die with some bullshit - such as "this isn't over" or "there must always be a..." or some equally uninteresting, closure void death
    Ahah, i realized something similar on the broken shore scenario. I rofled hard.
    I can't remember the exact phrase but it was something like this.
    *kills demon lord*
    Demon Lord Kalgorath: You are doomed to fail.
    Khadgar: It seems you are doomed to fail Lord Kalgorath.

    I loled at the high level trolling of Khadgar.
    Last edited by Shadowpunkz; 2017-09-26 at 12:31 AM.

  7. #87
    I just want us to defeat realistic threats that are well written. Defeating the Legion is just such an idiotic storyline that it makes me wonder if they even think about what they write down.

    Wish they just kept the player character out of the lore. It used to be a "group" of adventurers that killed onyxia or The Lich King, which both were Alliance kills for Horde players saying their character killed the Lich King (you didn't.) And some were Horde kills, or combined. But it was never stated that they were always the same group or even the same members, they even took casualties in the lore. But alas, we are now part of it, and the bad writing has thus become more visible.

    I'm sure I'm not the only one in thinking that us even able to invade the legion is ludicrous. Sure, we have all this experience (10 years). And sure we have powerful artifacts. But how can 20 guys with powerful artifacts, and let's be generous, 10 heroes defeat;

    - An nearly infinite Army that has existed for at least 25 000 years, not including slower time in the nether which makes it even more.
    - An Army whos leader is a literal god.
    - That god itself
    - An army that has conquored so many worlds it is said that Azeroth is one of the few remaining, giving them access to millions of artifacts and technology.

    There is just no logical reason Azeroth makes 30 people that much more powerful than the Legion, which according to the law of large numbers, would have at the very least equal to what we have + man power.




    So I for one hope they stop with trying to write "epic" crap and instead make it small - medium scale and relatable, because they just don't have the skill to write something epic without pulling deus ex-machina's out of their ass (which is literally how Sargeras will be defeaten.).

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Sliske View Post
    Do it for me since you insist i'm wrong - tell me the goal of the Old Gods, the Burning Legion, the Lich King, The Elemental Lords and the Void.
    Are you intentionally leaving out the ones that don't fit your argument?

  9. #89
    I like to have a mix. Variety is good.

    Felfaadaern Darkterror ~.~ Peacekeeper Benhir
    Tanks, KSM, AotC

  10. #90
    A bit a both is the answer. In my head canon I often find myself wiping the floor with fools that thought they could beat me, while we struggle against the big threats. Most of our OP-ness is by means of our artifact weapon though and I wouldn't have issues with a narrative that depowers that one to make smaler threats more believable again. Besides we aren't gods, I think of us as wizards essentially. We wield enormous power but we also are still mortal (kinda) and if someone puts a knife in our back we are likely to die for it.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Valithra View Post
    I just want us to defeat realistic threats that are well written. Defeating the Legion is just such an idiotic storyline that it makes me wonder if they even think about what they write down.

    Wish they just kept the player character out of the lore. It used to be a "group" of adventurers that killed onyxia or The Lich King, which both were Alliance kills for Horde players saying their character killed the Lich King (you didn't.) And some were Horde kills, or combined. But it was never stated that they were always the same group or even the same members, they even took casualties in the lore. But alas, we are now part of it, and the bad writing has thus become more visible.

    I'm sure I'm not the only one in thinking that us even able to invade the legion is ludicrous. Sure, we have all this experience (10 years). And sure we have powerful artifacts. But how can 20 guys with powerful artifacts, and let's be generous, 10 heroes defeat;

    - An nearly infinite Army that has existed for at least 25 000 years, not including slower time in the nether which makes it even more.
    - An Army whos leader is a literal god.
    - That god itself
    - An army that has conquored so many worlds it is said that Azeroth is one of the few remaining, giving them access to millions of artifacts and technology.

    There is just no logical reason Azeroth makes 30 people that much more powerful than the Legion, which according to the law of large numbers, would have at the very least equal to what we have + man power
    I could kiss you on the mouth. I find the Legion to be the silliest and most unbelievable threat we’ve faced. They can conquer 1000s of worlds, but somehow relatively primitive Azeroth is just too much. Ok? I mean how is it even possible they just don’t steam roll us. Especially with Argus right on the horizon it should be even easier! It’s just preposterous and silly.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Are you intentionally leaving out the ones that don't fit your argument?
    Which big bad have I missed? Or do you really wanna go through every single raid boss of every single tier and call those guys big bads? How about Leothoras the Blind? Lmao. I was just including the ones from the end of the expansion raids, or the main villains of warcraft.

    Like i said to the other guy - feel free to prove me wrong, tell me where a big threat wasn't wanting universe tier destruction for no reason at all

    Its worthless to tell me i'm wrong without giving a reason why i'm wrong.

    Kel'thuzad - Lich King's army, wants us dead because his master hates mortals and all life and wants universe wide destruction
    Kil'jaedin - Burning Legion. wants us dead because his master wants universe wide eradication of all life, wants us dead slightly faster than other planets because we survived the first attack. Routinely refers to us as mortal filth.
    Lich King - same as Kel'thuzad.
    Deathwing - Old God army. Wants us dead because his master wants eradication of all life, routinely calls us mortals and fools.
    Garrosh - is corrupted by the Old God Y'shaaraj, wants us dead because his master wants eradication of all life, routinely calls us mortals and fools.
    Archimonde - Same as KJ

    And now in Legion, again its back to the Burning Legion.

    So explain to me what I missed? You could count mid tier bosses, but thats my point - Blizzard can't write a fucking big bad, only small bads. Lei Shen was infinitely more interesting than any of the people on that list. He didn't want to eradicate all life. He wanted to build an empire for his people that spanned the world. He wanted any race that wasn't willing to join him to die or be slaves. He doesn't call us mortal filth, because he doesn't care if we're mortals.

    He had a story that made sense, he had a motive for doing it all - the welfare of his people the Mogu and he wasn't ATTACKING THE ENTIRE PLANET. The Villains on the list above have a fucking problem. They don't focus their attacks, ever. They seem to think they can just blanket the entire planet and take it all simultaneously. That isn't how wars work. Lei Shen understood this. He wasn't attacking fucking Darnassus or Stormwind, he was attacking the Islands off the Coast of his own Isle of Thunder.

    Compare that to the big bads. "We want the eradication of all life. Where should we focus our forces? I've got it. Silithus."

    Not Mulgore? Not Durotar? No. Silithus or Tanaris.
    Last edited by Sliske; 2017-09-26 at 10:57 AM.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Sliske View Post
    Which big bad have I missed? Or do you really wanna go through every single raid boss of every single tier and call those guys big bads? How about Leothoras the Blind? Lmao. I was just including the ones from the end of the expansion raids, or the main villains of warcraft.

    Like i said to the other guy - feel free to prove me wrong, tell me where a big threat wasn't wanting universe tier destruction for no reason at all

    Its worthless to tell me i'm wrong without giving a reason why i'm wrong.

    Kel'thuzad - Lich King's army, wants us dead because his master hates mortals and all life and wants universe wide destruction
    Kil'jaedin - Burning Legion. wants us dead because his master wants universe wide eradication of all life, wants us dead slightly faster than other planets because we survived the first attack. Routinely refers to us as mortal filth.
    Lich King - same as Kel'thuzad.
    Deathwing - Old God army. Wants us dead because his master wants eradication of all life, routinely calls us mortals and fools.
    Garrosh - is corrupted by the Old God Y'shaaraj, wants us dead because his master wants eradication of all life, routinely calls us mortals and fools.
    Archimonde - Same as KJ

    And now in Legion, again its back to the Burning Legion.

    So explain to me what I missed? You could count mid tier bosses, but thats my point - Blizzard can't write a fucking big bad, only small bads. Lei Shen was infinitely more interesting than any of the people on that list. He didn't want to eradicate all life. He wanted to build an empire for his people that spanned the world. He wanted any race that wasn't willing to join him to die or be slaves. He doesn't call us mortal filth, because he doesn't care if we're mortals.

    He had a story that made sense, he had a motive for doing it all - the welfare of his people the Mogu and he wasn't ATTACKING THE ENTIRE PLANET. The Villains on the list above have a fucking problem. They don't focus their attacks, ever. They seem to think they can just blanket the entire planet and take it all simultaneously. That isn't how wars work. Lei Shen understood this. He wasn't attacking fucking Darnassus or Stormwind, he was attacking the Islands off the Coast of his own Isle of Thunder.

    Compare that to the big bads. "We want the eradication of all life. Where should we focus our forces? I've got it. Silithus."

    Not Mulgore? Not Durotar? No. Silithus or Tanaris.
    I don't disagree with you, but you are wrong however about Garrosh. He never was an old god puppet and never called us mortals. And Garrosh had some decent writing if we exclude them not being able to decide which direction they wanted him to go.

    But yeah, the rest is more or less on point.

  14. #94
    Small. No contest. Small is *much* more interesting. I would have preferred if we fought all these years over Azeroth lands with Legion or maybe with the Scourge and the expansions kept adding more zones and extensions to existing zones (underground levels, caves / portal entrances which open into essentially a new zone), etc. Northrend could have been made twice bigger, for example, with one expansion uncovering the first half and the other expansion uncovering the next half (and the next expansion uncovering the underground caves). The enemies would be way more local, the stories would be way more local, and there would be something big in background, getting richer and more evolved every year. Right now, new expansions more or less erase the background every time, this is terrible.
    Last edited by rda; 2017-09-26 at 02:54 PM.

  15. #95
    A little bit of both for me. I like having a huge looming threat that gives gravity to the current world situation, where they pose a legitimate threat that we have to work towards thwarting. At the same time, I enjoy having the smaller threats that give the world life. Just because a world ending threat exists, that doesn't mean there aren't small time crooks and outlaws and nuisance issues that still need to be dealt with. The world still turns, life goes on, every day people problems still happen. This is where I think WotLK excelled, where you knew of the presence of the Lich King the entirety of the expansion and the threat was ever present and built up over the course of the questing and patches. During this time you dealt with other small time issues along with agents of the Lich King.
    SW:ToR Referral code for 7 free days of play: http://www.swtor.com/r/kyRr8Z

    When you are dead, you don't know that you are dead. It is difficult only for the others. It is the same when you are Stupid

  16. #96
    A mix of both. The small threats have a way of reminding you about the little things on Azeroth and helps to remind you what you're really fighting for. The big threats help to make you feel big and powerful but when you get too many of those in a row it starts to lose it's effect. One of the things I loved about MoP was how it felt like a step back on the power scale. We didn't fight old gods, just the echo of one. Garrosh was more of a medium threat in the scale of what we've gone up against. It was a nice break from the demons, old gods, and dragons that seek to kill us all.

  17. #97
    I actually like both of them and I think that's what made the charm of vanilla back in time. You were discovering new zones filled with gnolls / kobolds / neutral creatures of all variety but then you discovered this gang with red masks that would piss you for 25 levels. And it was quite a good surprise to meet with the Scourge at high level (at least for Alliance) or to see scares of their invasion in Kalimdor as a teaser for some of the high level dungeons and later raid with the scourge theme.

    I believe we need to have some little "outlaw" antagonists because it's always cool to travel, see a tower from far away and say "Oh, what will I find in this tower" and then you fall on a group of shady mercenaries, you don't really know if they're friends or foes but then you see the red name on them and think "oh shit" (even if you know you can kill them in 2 or 3 aoe) but since Warcraft is also a way to follow the story of major characters we need a major plot to lead all of this. That's why people loved Skyrim so much in my opinion even if the gameplay is actually poor it's one of the few RPG with the Witcher 3 and now Divinity Original Sin 2 where I had this feeling

    But I hardly see this possible in WoW anymore because of all the datamining and betatesting.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by fotmyo View Post
    I had the most fun in the game when we fought against small threats and we weren't considerd gods.
    Agreed completely. The 'you are your factions only hope' schtick doesn't work well in MMO's, and just feels absurd at this point.
    And it's squeezing all the air out of this goddamn cave I live in.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Thoughtful Trolli View Post
    I voted for big threats because small time outlaw quests are the type to easily fall into you're captured and being raped erp developer designs and that's disgusting there's already too much of that.
    You mean like when we are looking for the tidestone and our ghost pal saves us from Azshara's tentacles?

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