4th Term for Chancellor Merkel as Germany rejects right wing rhetoric

[JohnBrown1917]

Just a short bit of trivia:
"Nazi" is an abbreviation for "Nationalsozialist" (National Socialist), and their party was the NSDAP (= Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei, which translates to "National Socialist German Worker's Party").

Yes, and North Korea is Democratic.

[sarahtasher]

Just a short bit of trivia:
"Nazi" is an abbreviation for "Nationalsozialist" (National Socialist), and their party was the NSDAP (= Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei, which translates to "National Socialist German Worker's Party").

Jesus fracking christ, the NSDAP before Hitler had around 20 members.

[JohnBrown1917]

It's still factual that, from a poor worker's perspective, that party actually was (or seemed like) a sound chioce in the beginnings, as they actually represented their concerns. And they did so throughout - as long as you were an aryan German worker willing to partake in murdering basically the rest of the world. The state that was the end-goal for Hitler would very likely actually have taken good care of these people, no matter their actual economic productivity. It's just that it was a very limited socialism at the core of it - but socialism nonetheless.

Yup, like I said. Its just like how North Korea is democratic.

[Kellhound]

You'd think people would learn from that object lesson, but no here we are yet again.

We have, no one has tried to occupy Russia since then.

[Mormolyce]

Jesus 12 years now. Even longer than the dear Fuhrer.

Feels like a 100. She looks it too.

Man, why do you guys hate right wing Christian conservatives so much?

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Just a short bit of trivia:
"Nazi" is an abbreviation for "Nationalsozialist" (National Socialist), and their party was the NSDAP (= Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei, which translates to "National Socialist German Worker's Party").

You are DEFINITELY the first person to ever mention that on this forum.

What's German for kekekeke?

[Mayhem]

No, not really. NK isn't even a democracy when viewed from within, nor was it intended as one during its inception phase. Their usage of the term was never honest from any perspective, while the NSDAP actually WAS socialist for a specific group. This isn't the same thing.

And therein lies the problem, socialism isn't about just one group as it is in its core democratic and for social equality. The term gets misused by the far-right since forever.

[Kellhound]

And therein lies the problem, socialism isn't about just one group as it is in its core democratic and for social equality. The term gets misused by the far-right since forever.

Socialism is at its core an economic system, based on societal control of production and distribution of goods. It does not have to be democratic.

[Dezerte]

No, not really. NK isn't even a democracy when viewed from within, nor was it intended as one during its inception phase. Their usage of the term was never honest from any perspective, while the NSDAP actually WAS socialist for a specific group. This isn't the same thing.

It kind of is the same thing. Democracy exists in North Korea, for specific groups. There's also this thing called Right-wing socialism.

[Mayhem]

Socialism is at its core an economic system, based on societal control of production and distribution of goods. It does not have to be democratic.

... so societal ownership of production and distribution of goods without democratic control, how does that work out in your head?

[Slant]

Actually, yes, actual libertarians ARE for open borders, yes. Yes. Open borders for goods and people is a classic of the conservative thought in Europe and America. Of course, orders were given to believe that the ALENA and co. are ''kummunists kunspiracies'', but....

Also, you might not realize it, but ''jazz scene in Timbuktu'' is a sarcastiscally improbable scenario.

On the other hand, it isn't... :P

https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Glob...place-of-blues

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Just a short bit of trivia:
"Nazi" is an abbreviation for "Nationalsozialist" (National Socialist), and their party was the NSDAP (= Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei, which translates to "National Socialist German Worker's Party").

Nazis used socialism as a medium to ride their agenda on. They're not socialists in the sense that you think of the term. The CSU (sister party of the CDU) is called Christlich-soziale Union (Christian-social Union), yet they are much more to the right than the CDU is. The American dumbed down children's version of politics (sorting shit into left/right based on capitalism vs. socialism) doesn't apply to Europe. We're a bit more complicated than that.

Also, you got the abbreviation wrong. Nazi comes from the beginning of the German pronounciation of "national" and was meant to be the opposite of the leftist "sozi" that was used in the 20s/30s to describe the left wing.

[Kellhound]

... so societal ownership of production and distribution of goods without democratic control, how does that work out in your head?

See Nazi Germany....

[Acidbaron]

The whole socialists are nazis fall short when you start breaking down all their policies and believes.
The only reason why germany became more economical social is because they had such a bad rep globally they had to nationalize companies to get anywhere.

Calling them socialists as in the left, just shows how little people actually know of politics honestly.

[Noradin]

She didn´t help herself with saying that she would do it again if she will be in a similar or the same aituation but with the nowlege from today.

Yes, she would uphold the German constitution and responsibilities again if she was in the same situation again.
Germany did sign treaties to that effect a long time before Merkel became chancellor.

Also something the east often gets blamed for (which is bullshit but something like that always makes good phrases).

What people perceive as unfair is that a family of two who in the east gets pensions for two that are adjusted to match west pensions while a family in the west gets a pension for one and mothers aren't compensated for raising their kids without help. Many of those really would have liked to work in a job (not just for the money) but they couldn't and now they feel penalized for it in pensions on top of it.

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Are you kidding? There's 13 % extreme right wingers, plus the FDP, which are neo cons, plus alot of the CSU also right wing. There's not gonna be any islamization any time soon.

Green is the colour of Islam, have you looked at a satellite image of Germany lately? Islamization all over the place, all that green simply cannot be anything else...

[Dezerte]

What I don't get however is where you see the democracy in NK, even for a small group. They have a person-cult centered around a dynasty of dictators that pass down rulership like medieval kings (i.e. bloodline), and hold "elections" with basically one option as a fig leaf.

So "elections" like you said, where realistically only one person/group can win. Nazi Germany borrowed some socialist ideas but ultimately it was mostly for show as well; as power and wealth concentrated itself among the leaders and select business companies (more akin to an oligarchy).

[Noradin]

No, not really. NK isn't even a democracy when viewed from within, nor was it intended as one during its inception phase. Their usage of the term was never honest from any perspective, while the NSDAP actually WAS socialist for a specific group. This isn't the same thing.

If you specify the group as anything other than society as a whole then it isn't socialism anymore.
the way you (mis-)use the term it would apply to any self-serving group of people.

[Acidbaron]

Identifying socialism strictly with left politics is a much greater sign of a lack of knowledge of politics, though. That was my whole point these past few pages...

You have to remember you are sometimes discussing politics with people that can't even tell apart socialism as in roads, libraries from communism where there is almost no private ownership.

[Mayhem]

See Nazi Germany....

... soo not socialist and not democratic, gotcha. Great point you made there.

[Rukh]

Just like in the country that is almost the definition of socialism these days (Russia) you mean?

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Well, I guess since socialism usually only ever applied to one nation per "instance", by this definition, it never actually existed then. Huh.

Russia is a kleptocracy. Look to Nordic countries for examples of modern socialism.

[Mayhem]

i know of quite a few currently active socialist dictatorships. How do these fit into your descrition?

It doesn't, that's kind of the point. Socialist in name only.

Where is the problem with that? Tell me ONE socialist reality where it was REALLY the people that were in control, and not some oppressive regime that forced their way even if a mock-up display of democracy was tried to be kept up.

Social democracies are a thing yo. Is a democracy an oppressive regime to you?

[Dezerte]

Just like in the country that is almost the definition of socialism these days (Russia) you mean?

I guess, except it was communism - or rather leninism/stalinism as it later became known as. And Lenin may have had good intentions, ditto for Trotsky, Stalin etc, but it seems they either let the power corrupt them or they never really believed and simply used it as a way to gain popular support like a demagogue would.