raiding

[darbok]

I don't mean in terms of difficulty.

I like raiding in wow, group of people toward a common goal. I know FF14 is 8 man instead of 10-30 man. I guess what I want to know is raiding in FF14 good end game raiding in terms of satisfaction of the goals? is it really end game content? being only 8 man, are raids hard to get into? Is it a raiding experience? thanks.

[Deleted]

Actually, there are 2 types of raids, the 8 man ones, and 24 man ones, in the 24 peeps you have an alliance of 3 parties working together.

I've never done WoW raids, so I can't say how they compare. Getting in is usually quite a pain, which will hopefully be fixed by the 4.1 party finder allowing people to set up an alliance more easily for raids.

Overall I think most people undervalue the raids, the coils of Bahamut are amazing for instance, yet very few people have seen the story. The alliance raids tend to have great mechanics too, so while they don't drop the best gear available (it's pretty good overall though) they are a fun experience I seriously recommend

[Wrecktangle]

8 man savage raids give a nice sense of satisfaction from clearing. very similar to mythic raiding in WoW.

24 man raids give nothing of satisfaction. They are meant to be cleared very easily, a la LFR of WoW.

Yes it is endgame only.

No it's not hard to get into. Picking a more in demand job will be easier though especially one that's less common (I.e. NIN/BRD/MCH/WAR/DRK/any Healer)

[The Casualty]

I can't compare Savage to Mythic - as Mythic didn't exist when I stopped playing WoW (release to Dragon Soul), but the difficulty for some of the bosses (ex Brute Justice, Neo Ex-Death) would be on par to some of the harder fights that I faced in WoW. The dynamic isn't much different than 10 man raiding except you are missing 2 DPSers.

As Wreck said, 8 normal and 24 mans are - as I understand are often compared to LFR (I did LFR maybe once on an alt class, so I'm not the best to judge) as far as difficulty. They might be difficult for the first few attempts as you try to grasp what you are supposed to do, but even winging it, you are unlikely to wipe unless your party is lacking or you go in completely unprepared.


What I like is this latest savage tier even gives an additional boss - Neo-Ex-Death, which is wonderfully done.

I do kind of wish the 8 man areas were explorable like the 24 man areas. I like the scenery. The trash mobs I could take or leave however.

[Kazgrel]

There's a level of satisfaction from clearing anything that has some semblance of difficulty, which tends to start in this game with the extreme difficulty primals, which are generally regarded as a gateway into the savage raids (note: they are not "required" in the sense of, say, an attunement process).

[Faroth]

As Wreck said, 8 normal and 24 mans are - as I understand are often compared to LFR (I did LFR maybe once on an alt class, so I'm not the best to judge) as far as difficulty. They might be difficult for the first few attempts as you try to grasp what you are supposed to do, but even winging it, you are unlikely to wipe unless your party is lacking or you go in completely unprepared.

Someone didn't run Weeping City of Mhach very much whatsoever, I see.


For the OP: The 24 man raids are set up like WoW's LFR, but imagine LFR with mechanics that can wipe the raid if one group botches what they're supposed to do. I don't think they're fair to compare to WoW's LFR because they have actual mechanics and require all three raid groups to do their part properly. You're coordinating actual mechanics with 23 other strangers across text chat. If everyone knows the fights, yes, they go smoothly. If some don't, or they forget a step, they can be more interesting.

That said, some are harder than others. Labyrinth of the Ancients, the very first 24 man raid, had a first boss that got harder as we outgeared it because people couldn't control themselves on DPS output. Hilarity ensued, wipe immediately followed. The mini boss before the 3rd boss was actually fun and needed a little coordination, but King Behemoth and the final battle were the real fun fights in there imo. They both became faceroll once you outgeared it, though.

Syrcus Tower has a lot goin on for the first boss that's fairly interesting when you first go in and if you're geared for it rather than overgeared, it's a fun fight. Some of the later fights weren't as interesting.

World of Darkness was arguably easier, but had a few fun mechanics on two bosses. The final boss mostly wiped people if everyone assumed someone else would handle mechanics.

Moving into the first expansion, Void Ark was faceroll easy, even at release. In response to the feedback, Weeping City of Mhach was tuned much harder at release. The 2nd and 3rd boss would wipe people even months later if they forgot something or didn't know what to do. The 1st and 4th boss were comparably much easier (unless you had an evil tank on the last boss...they could make things nightmarish).

If you're a Mythic WoW raider, they're probably not going to be anything of notable interest for you, but if you're a more casual raider or tend to do normal, you might enjoy them and they're particularly nice for catching up additional jobs on gear.


As others have said, 8 man raiding is definitely more progression and sense of achievement. Even in the first expansion, going back at level 70 with better gear, some of the bosses in the Binding Coil of Bahamut could prove difficult because the mechanics had enough "don't care, you die" factors. Eventually that was mostly overpowerable as well, and now you can 4 man a lot of it, if not all (I think you can clear all of it with 4, maybe 3).

With the Heavensward 8 man, the developers were told it was too hard, then too easy, then hard again. They've adjusted a bit here and there as they go and the next one gets tweaked a bit based on feedback. Most people I've listened to think 8 man savage is overall pretty good. A few on these forums still think they're boring. I think it will largely be based on what level of raiding you're comparing it to in your past experience.

[Vargarii]

I'd argue that the pains of weeping city had more to do with the players than the difficulty of the content, although I'd agree that it was harder than the usual 24 man and place it somewhere between the current normal/early heroic raids than lfr.

[Kazgrel]

I'd argue that the pains of weeping city had more to do with the players than the difficulty of the content, although I'd agree that it was harder than the usual 24 man and place it somewhere between the current normal/early heroic raids than lfr.

It didn't help that the previous 24 man (Void Ark) set the expectations so ridiculously low, so when that 24 man presented actual mechanics to deal with (Hi Ozma), it completely blew people's minds.

[dope_danny]

8 man is structured boss fights, 24 man is a spectacle. Sometimes good, sometimes bad but it is always a spectacle. Everyone is going to remember Ozma at launch.