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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Woobels View Post
    I think it's too early to just assume she's not OP and her pickrate is only because other healers are weak, I don't really think buffing Ana and Zen a little is going to make Mercy picked less.

    Either something is going to have to change eventually.
    Same reason it's too early to jump the gun and assume she's zomg OP. Ana's and Zen's issues did not start with the Mercy rework. Ana has been underperforming since her nerfs, which ended the tank meta, and made her even worse, since she's countered by dive.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Woobels View Post
    Mercy has more than double the pickrate of any other hero in the game right now, this is over all MMR brackets.

    Some of those heroes are arguably too strong too (Tracer, Winston maybe, who knows)but nothing as excessive as Mercy.

    So no their pickrates are definitely not the same.

    No real pro-play on this patch yet but a lot of people here argue those pickrates don't really matter much anyways.
    More than double you say?

    https://www.overbuff.com/heroes

    In Grandmaster:
    Mercy - 10.64 %
    Winston - 9.14 %
    Lucio - 8.59 %
    Tracer - 7.88 %
    Genji - 7.32 %

    She doesn't have double of any of those, and both Winston and Lucio are pretty damn close. You also need to consider the surge of interest after the changes, something that always happens after big changes like this in all games and will most likely die down a bit eventually.

    Furthermore, Lucio has had consistently extremely high pick-rate ever since the game was released, so he should clearly be nerfed right?

  3. #23
    The Insane Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Utigarde View Post
    Or, consider giving other healers some impact. Ana had great burst healing before she got gutted, Zen used to be a great flank tool before he got nerfed, Lucio is still an extremely popular pick. Buff other healers to Mercy's level first.
    All they nerfer was Ana’s damage. The issue is that she’s about as mobile as Bastion in Sentry mode with less EHP and less DPS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by By the Emperor View Post
    More than double you say?

    https://www.overbuff.com/heroes

    In Grandmaster:
    Mercy - 10.64 %
    Winston - 9.14 %
    Lucio - 8.59 %
    Tracer - 7.88 %
    Genji - 7.32 %

    She doesn't have double of any of those, and both Winston and Lucio are pretty damn close. You also need to consider the surge of interest after the changes, something that always happens after big changes like this in all games and will most likely die down a bit eventually.

    Furthermore, Lucio has had consistently extremely high pick-rate ever since the game was released, so he should clearly be nerfed right?
    Check ‘last week’. It’s 16.64%, or 17.15% in Masters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Utigarde View Post
    What I find funny is, neither of OP's 'problems' were created from the rework. She's had one second regen for months. A Soldier dying in three seconds would die regardless of her having infinite ammo during ult, her gun takes longer than three seconds to empty.
    During her ult, the regen is no longer interrupted by damage, it’s basically constant.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    All they nerfer was Ana’s damage. The issue is that she’s about as mobile as Bastion in Sentry mode with less EHP and less DPS.

    - - - Updated - - -


    Check ‘last week’. It’s 16.64%, or 17.15% in Masters.

    - - - Updated - - -



    During her ult, the regen is no longer interrupted by damage, it’s basically constant.
    And they reduced her grenade from 100% to 50% bonus healing. That's a lot less healing. As for Mercy, she's susceptible to the same things during ult as she is normally. Focus fire. Flying around paints a big target on your head for hitscan heroes.

  5. #25
    The Insane Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Utigarde View Post
    And they reduced her grenade from 100% to 50% bonus healing. That's a lot less healing. As for Mercy, she's susceptible to the same things during ult as she is normally. Focus fire. Flying around paints a big target on your head for hitscan heroes.
    Except she can slingshot around at about 3x the speed of Pharah.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Look at her pick rates, every team has a Mercy. That's not just her being fun, that's her being overpowered to the point of dictating the game. I talked 6 months ago about the game feeling like 'who can keep the other Mercy the most dead', now it doesn't just feel like it, that is literally the game.
    I was an ass to you before, but right here you're spot on. This is exactly how it feels. I prefer to play Ana, she's obviously a higher skill cap hero. But if I'm up against a Mercy who has close to a 30% res rate over the entire game, that's a lot of extra people you need to kill. It basicly isn't a 6v6 anymore.




    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Except she can slingshot around at about 3x the speed of Pharah.
    I always focus Mercy, often solo ult her too, but when she dashes to someone and cancel dashing mid-air she's literally a flying rocket and it's impossible to hit her.

    I'm tired of seeing Mercy every single game. I want a proper game for once where the first pick matters.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Marweinicus View Post
    Right now it feels like in order to counter a Mercy, you need to have a Mercy of your own.

    I didn't like the hide and seek Mercy and I understand Blizzard for changing it. But as it is right now, there's more resses total than there were before. And combined with her ultimate she can still res 3-4 people in a relatively short while anyway. I feel like not much has changed, except that it's more annoying to be up against a Mercy than it ever was before.
    And yet, you could say the same thing about Lucio for a year
    *Insert every single ridiculous PC parts detail here that no one cares about*

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by La View Post
    And yet, you could say the same thing about Lucio for a year
    Erm what... in what way? That you need a Lucio to counter their Lucio? Well for competetive KotH it's kinda always been like that.

    The difference is, nobody finds it annoying to play against a Lucio. He's not a gamebreaker in a way as Mercy is now.

  9. #29
    High Overlord zesilo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marweinicus View Post
    Erm what... in what way? That you need a Lucio to counter their Lucio? Well for competetive KotH it's kinda always been like that.

    The difference is, nobody finds it annoying to play against a Lucio. He's not a gamebreaker in a way as Mercy is now.
    I agree with this completely

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Check ‘last week’. It’s 16.64%, or 17.15% in Masters.
    Still not that big of a deal at the moment I'd say. Mercy has always been among the most picked heroes, and she just got a rework.

    It's going to skyrocket for a bit.

    Never mind the fact that we have such few healers, and if you don't have even a single one, Mercy is the least painful to play at that point, so she'll end up popping up even more due to that.
    Last edited by Jester Joe; 2017-09-30 at 02:16 PM.

  11. #31
    Herald of the Titans Daws001's Avatar
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    I don't see how dealing with Mercy during ult is any different from dealing with Lucio. They're both the tankiest, most mobile healers who can be targeting nightmares. Still very killable.

    Mercy has always been one of the most popular heroes save for the higher tiers/pro scene. More play in those tiers isn't a bad thing given Lucio has been chilling at the top there since forever. Rather than knee-jerk nerf Mercy because some people hate rez being in the game entirely, they need to give Ana a look because she's been on a downward slide for awhile (pick and winrate).

    They really need to release another support next to shake things up.
    Last edited by Daws001; 2017-09-30 at 09:47 PM.

  12. #32
    her new abilities are OP, but outside of ult she is still very very squishy and in pubs solo queueing I still die very easily and very often to focus/DPS/flankers etc .. in a pub noone protects me ... maybe in pre-made teams its different

  13. #33
    The Insane Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    Still not that big of a deal at the moment I'd say. Mercy has always been among the most picked heroes, and she just got a rework.

    It's going to skyrocket for a bit.

    Never mind the fact that we have such few healers, and if you don't have even a single one, Mercy is the least painful to play at that point, so she'll end up popping up even more due to that.
    D.Va still being very popular in Bronze-Plat is rework effect. However, she's still not a tremendous outlier, and her usage is tanking in Diamond+ Mercy is ridiculous across the board, from Bronze right through to GM. It's not just about the pick rates, it's the pick rates at the levels where it's most competitive.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Aphrel View Post
    the ult resetting cd on ress seems a little to much imo.
    The rezzes generally are too much. I'm rezzing like 10+ players a game on average. That's nuts.

  15. #35
    I think that they were afraid of a huge negative impact from removing her res ulti, and overcompensated for it. You could tone her down a bit with some small but judicious pruning. Examples:

    1) Remove the effect of her ulti on her resurrect ability. It's strong enough without it.
    2) Make her res ability start the match on cooldown, and only start charging once the match proper begins.

    The second in particular would do a lot to counter her get out of jail free card for early picks on a defensive team.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Utigarde View Post
    Or, consider giving other healers some impact. Ana had great burst healing before she got gutted, Zen used to be a great flank tool before he got nerfed, Lucio is still an extremely popular pick. Buff other healers to Mercy's level first.
    If they did that the game would be NUTS. The biggest thing Mercy brings is res, which provides a level of wipe recovery only Symmetra can equal and she can't heal.

    P.S. Ana is still a very strong pick IMO.
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  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by By the Emperor View Post
    1: Have you even played Mercy? Two hanzo body-shots definitely kills her. Her regeneration has a 1 second delay after taking damage and regenerates at 20 health per second. A single hanzo shot deals 125 damage, two shots being 250 damage, Mercy has 200 health. If she's hit one time she goes down to 75 health, it would then take 5 seconds to regenerate enough health to survive a second shot, assuming she doesn't take any damage what so ever from any other source in that time.

    Junkrat deals 120 damage per hit, so it's pretty much the exact same situation.

    2: In those three seconds, that hanzo could just as easily have killed that Mercy, a single headshot, splitting arrow shot or two body-shots and she goes down. Keep in mind that it's also an ultimate, and you would have to compare it to the likes of Soldier/Genji/Tracer ultimates, which it doesn't even come close to. Even if she does choose to focus on dealing damage, she's sacrificing a lot of potential damage-boosting (to the whole team) as well as healing (to the whole team).
    Don't forget Hanzo mains only hit every 7th shot and never switch though.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    D.Va still being very popular in Bronze-Plat is rework effect. However, she's still not a tremendous outlier, and her usage is tanking in Diamond+ Mercy is ridiculous across the board, from Bronze right through to GM. It's not just about the pick rates, it's the pick rates at the levels where it's most competitive.
    But that doesn't change the fact that the hero with nearly the most consistently high pick rate just got a rework that didn't involve gutting her strongest utility which was needed to play the role she's meant to do. D.Va did get a rework, yes, but it's mostly a sucky one.

    And yeah, Mercy did get a strong rework (Comp wise, I hate the rework still gameplay wise), so her already high pick rate is going to just increase further.

    I mean, I'm sure Lucio probably had a similar situation when he was reworked a bit.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    But that doesn't change the fact that the hero with nearly the most consistently high pick rate just got a rework that didn't involve gutting her strongest utility which was needed to play the role she's meant to do. D.Va did get a rework, yes, but it's mostly a sucky one.

    And yeah, Mercy did get a strong rework (Comp wise, I hate the rework still gameplay wise), so her already high pick rate is going to just increase further.

    I mean, I'm sure Lucio probably had a similar situation when he was reworked a bit.
    yea her kit is solid. I think people need time to adjust to it. I really think they over nerfed bastions 35% defense boost too quickly. Look where he is now, garbage pick rate and niche set ups once again despite his buffs.

    They should really buff ana and zen instead. Zen needs some kind of mobility (or another hp buff) and Ana needs a way to deal with her shots being blocked by shields - for allies at least.
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  19. #39
    Seems fine. When I use her ult it's to keep my team alive/resurrect dead mates than to fly around and do damage. If a mercy is able to pop her ult and put out that much damage without getting killed, that's is the enemy teams fault.

  20. #40
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Look at her pick rates, every team has a Mercy. That's not just her being fun, that's her being overpowered to the point of dictating the game. I talked 6 months ago about the game feeling like 'who can keep the other Mercy the most dead', now it doesn't just feel like it, that is literally the game.
    This is largely an issue of;
    1> the other healers being decidedly "meh" at best, and
    2> that there's only three other healers to begin with.

    As well as 2.1> Of the four healers, only 2 provide strong target healing.

    And Ana, the other strong target healer, has had some major issues since her last nerf. While she has high theoretical healing, her healing can be blocked by interposing barriers or bodies, it requires aim by the healer, and her kit is schizophrenic; the sniper concept promotes distance gameplay, while the grenade and sleep dart promote her being right in the melee.

    So her high pickrate isn't surprising, at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marweinicus View Post
    I was an ass to you before, but right here you're spot on. This is exactly how it feels. I prefer to play Ana, she's obviously a higher skill cap hero. But if I'm up against a Mercy who has close to a 30% res rate over the entire game, that's a lot of extra people you need to kill. It basicly isn't a 6v6 anymore.
    I think this is unfair. Recall that Mercy's beaming someone, to heal them. If nobody needs healing, she's boosting someone by 30% damage (assuming perfect gameplay, to favor Mercy as much as possible). So while she's providing healing, she's NOT providing reasonable damage, not even by boosting; it's a "better than nothing" thing. A team with a Mercy, minus rez, is at a slight disadvantage. Rez offsets that.

    Compare to other healers. I'd agree Ana's a bit hosed right now, but Lucio's providing decent damage, boops (which can swing fights by themselves, used well), is a PITA to hit for most heroes, and can speed boost the whole team. Zenyatta's a damage king; his personal damage is high, and his Discord is a major advantage. Mercy's 30% damage boost gives her very little utility or contribution outside of direct healing, without counting Rez. She needs something like that.

    I'm tired of seeing Mercy every single game. I want a proper game for once where the first pick matters.
    Buff the other healers.

    Zen's healing orb could do a bit more healing, and he could use a mobility or defense option (passive speed boost, a deflect like Genji's that doesn't redirect damage, immunity to ground effects because he's floating, all ideas I've seen tossed around).

    Lucio's probably close to fine, could maybe use a boost in passive healing (like 25-50% more, not huge). Maybe some improvement on boops somehow.

    Ana needs some re-optimization. She either needs to be a sniper, or not. If she's a sniper, give her some mobility option that lets her get to sniper nests. That's my ideal; it fixes the "can't shoot through barriers" thing by giving her an option to go for height to shoot OVER those barriers, where possible. I'd revert the penalties to her damage from the last round, on at least her primary fire. Bio-grenade should maybe be a bio-rocket; same effect but line-of-sight fire rather than a grenade arc, so she can toss it from a sniper nest into the melee.

    Also, we need at least 2 more healing heroes.

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