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  1. #41
    About Ana, she doesn't need a huge drastic change, but I'd like to see them change either the dart or the grenade and make one of those keys swap her between damage or healing. If she has healing on, the darts will penetrate thru Matrix, Shields, as well as enemy bodies to hit people on the other side of them, and if damage she can shoot thru her team for some damage on the enemy but no healing to her team (obviously blocked by everything else like shields, barriers, bodies, etc). Maybe this could even affect her grenade, so if she has damage on the grenade blocks healing but won't increase your teams healing received, and vice versa.
    The reason I stated sleep dart or grenade would have to go is the 2 special ability aspect. To compensate losing the grenade or dart, give her some kind of slightly increased movement speed.
    As for Zen, so much could be done to help him. 1) movement speed increase. 2) increase shield of health. 3) immune to ground affects (although this really only affects a Rein Ult). Maybe even give him a short hover ability ala Pharah, but without her jet jump. Hold spacebar and he can float up and glide around for a little bit. Not crazy high, but something that allows him to reach slightly higher ground and above enemies. Think about the airport hangar level. He wouldn't be able to go from the ground to the platform above, but if he was on the platform already he'd be able to get to the tops of the boxes up there. Gives him some mobility with a few escape options on levels.
    I agree, Lucio is fine where he is. The only reason to buff his healing is to compensate the Mercy buffs.
    As it stands, Mercy is very strong. I don't think she's OP, but she is much better off to solo heal. That being said, she has always been able to solo heal effectively. Lucio and Ana could solo heal effectively as well, however they depend more on the team comps, where Mercy is effective regardless of comp. She's very easy to focus when she pops Ult, but depending on comp she can be difficult. If you're tuning Pharah and Junk, chances are you aren't going to get her during the Ult, but teams with McCree, 76, DVa, and even Winston can ground the shit out of her if they shoot her. I've seen so many times where she Ults and flies overhead while my team just ignores her.

  2. #42
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Yeah, I just think people are quick to use "OP" unfairly. "Overpowered" means that she's poorly affecting the game; if her healing was enough to be causing a major shift in win/loss ratios, for instance. In matches where both teams have Mercies, if neither team ever wipes and the clock runs out into OT constantly, that's "bad". If she's just delaying/preventing some team wipes, by preventing a pick from collapsing the team, then she's just acting as a healer hero should; it's not that different to me than a Zarya bubbling the healer who gets hooked by Roadhog, or whatever. It's one rez every 30 seconds; if you cant follow it up with more kills, you weren't winning that teamfight anyway.

    Healers have been struggling for a while. I think they could all (minus Mercy, now) use some love. Unless it's pushing teams to run 3-4 healers, I don't really see how they'd be arguably "overpowered".

  3. #43
    The Insane Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Yeah, I just think people are quick to use "OP" unfairly. "Overpowered" means that she's poorly affecting the game; if her healing was enough to be causing a major shift in win/loss ratios, for instance. In matches where both teams have Mercies, if neither team ever wipes and the clock runs out into OT constantly, that's "bad". If she's just delaying/preventing some team wipes, by preventing a pick from collapsing the team, then she's just acting as a healer hero should; it's not that different to me than a Zarya bubbling the healer who gets hooked by Roadhog, or whatever. It's one rez every 30 seconds; if you cant follow it up with more kills, you weren't winning that teamfight anyway.

    Healers have been struggling for a while. I think they could all (minus Mercy, now) use some love. Unless it's pushing teams to run 3-4 healers, I don't really see how they'd be arguably "overpowered".
    So, if both sides have one, she's okay? That's how it is. That is the very definition of OP, not having one on your team condemns you to a loss. The hero does poorly effect the game, because she is the fucking game. It's down to who has the best one, because the best one will stay alive best, and win their side the match.

    People keep talking about buffing/reworking the other healers, but that's simply not going to happen, because it's not even an option to buff 3 healers at the same time.
    Last edited by Jessicka; 2017-10-03 at 08:37 PM.

  4. #44
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    So, if both sides have one, she's okay?
    There's 4 healers, and teams often play with two. That one is preferred over the others really isn't that weird. And again; this doesn't mean she's OP. It arguably means the other three are underpowered. Which support mains have been arguing for months.

    That is the very definition of OP, not having one on your team condemns you to a loss.
    You haven't made that argument, and pickrate doesn't make it for you.

    The hero does poorly effect the game, because she is the fucking game. It's down to who has the best one, because the best one will stay alive best, and win their side the match.
    Again, pickrate doesn't demonstrate this. And I really don't think I need to explain how silly the "if one team has better players, they win" complaint is.

    People keep talking about buffing/reworking the other healers, but that's simply not going to happen, because it's not even an option to buff 3 healers at the same time.
    That's a frankly ridiculous assertion. They've buffed multiple heroes in the same patch almost every time. Here's a past patch where three healers got pretty significant adjustments in the same patch; http://overwatch.wikia.com/wiki/September_1,_2016

    If you mean a full ground-up rework, while that's unlikely, it's not what most of us are suggesting; they're for single new abilities (mostly mobility tools) and some number tweaks.

  5. #45
    The Insane Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    There's 4 healers, and teams often play with two. That one is preferred over the others really isn't that weird. And again; this doesn't mean she's OP. It arguably means the other three are underpowered. Which support mains have been arguing for months.

    You haven't made that argument, and pickrate doesn't make it for you.
    This is about the magnitude of the gap between her and everyone else. You reach a point where you have to see this and think, that kind of degree of outlier is just not right.

    Again, pickrate doesn't demonstrate this. And I really don't think I need to explain how silly the "if one team has better players, they win" complaint is.
    It does when SR/MMR should be roughly equal, and taking alternative healers puts you at a significant disadvantage in respect to win rate.

    That's a frankly ridiculous assertion. They've buffed multiple heroes in the same patch almost every time. Here's a past patch where three healers got pretty significant adjustments in the same patch; http://overwatch.wikia.com/wiki/September_1,_2016

    If you mean a full ground-up rework, while that's unlikely, it's not what most of us are suggesting; they're for single new abilities (mostly mobility tools) and some number tweaks.
    I think they'd need more than that to close the three fold gap that's developed between their, and her pick rates. Zen and Lucio are nerfs in those notes anyway.

  6. #46
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    This is about the magnitude of the gap between her and everyone else. You reach a point where you have to see this and think, that kind of degree of outlier is just not right.
    I agree there's a gap between her and other healers.

    My argument is that it's because the other healers (and Mercy herself, pre-rework) are underpowered in general. So the others should be buffed up to be more comparable to new Mercy, not have Mercy be brought back down to that underpowered state.

    It does when SR/MMR should be roughly equal, and taking alternative healers puts you at a significant disadvantage in respect to win rate.
    Again, you haven't demonstrated this.

  7. #47
    Her 30 second res is fucking retarded in 3v3. I know I know...get gud, game isn't balanced around 3s, focus her down, etc. it's still stupid.

  8. #48
    The Insane Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    I agree there's a gap between her and other healers.

    My argument is that it's because the other healers (and Mercy herself, pre-rework) are underpowered in general. So the others should be buffed up to be more comparable to new Mercy, not have Mercy be brought back down to that underpowered state.


    Again, you haven't demonstrated this.
    Lucio’s win rate is some way behind Mercy, Zen’s about matches it. Ana has the single lowest win rate in the game.

    How and why would you need to buff Ana out of that hole, when a few weeks ago she was doing okay? Mercy and Ana usually compete for the same spot, Ana is somehow immediately that much worse than she was that short time ago? Or is Mercy that much stronger that she out competes her to that degree that she simply cannot win?

    I think that highlights the issue more than anything.
    Last edited by Jessicka; 2017-10-03 at 09:56 PM.

  9. #49
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Lucio’s win rate is some way behind Mercy, Zen’s about matches it. Ana has the single lowest win rate in the game.

    How and why would you need to buff Ana out of that hole, when a few weeks ago she was doing okay? Mercy and Ana usually compete for the same spot, Ana is somehow immediately that much worse than she was that short time ago? Or is Mercy that much stronger that she out competes her to that degree that she simply cannot win?

    I think that highlights the issue more than anything.
    Pulling data from here; https://www.overbuff.com/heroes
    And looking at "last week", "competitive", and "all ranks", and the top winrate is Symmetra. Then Torb, then Junkrat, then Orisa, then Zenyatta, and finally Mercy. And that generally holds true at most ranks; at all ranks from Platinum up, Zenyatta's got the higher win rate, not Mercy. At Grandmaster, Mercy's win rate craters, while Zenyatta's rises to #2.

    If we look at tie rate, where if Mercy was that super-effective we should expect to see her much higher, since two Mercy-running teams should stonewall each other, Mercy is again not in the top 5.

    The data isn't showing what you're claiming. She has a high pickrate, and that's it. And if you look at "last 6 months", Mercy's pickrate only drops from the current 16-17% down to 12.5%. She was ALWAYS stupidly popular. All that really happened is that she's seen a bit of a bump because she got some good changes; there's no evidence in the data here to suggest she's swinging matches as extremely as you're claiming she is.

    That people are picking Mercy over Ana could simply be that Ana's been frustrating since her nerf (she was my first Golden Gun, and I barely ever play her now, I definitely prefer the new Mercy over her), and new Mercy is just more fun. This is an issue of Ana being meh, not Mercy being OP.

    Ana's low win rate also isn't new; go to the last 6 months in the same link above, and Ana is 2nd from the bottom in that time frame. She's been performing poorly for months, it isn't because of Mercy, it's just that some Ana hangers-on have given up because the new Mercy is more engaging.

  10. #50
    For a sniper Ana surely benefits more from being closer to the action than actually sniping. It feels like her sniper aspect is only for when she's not near her team mates. I wish should could play safer at longer ranges but sleep dart isn't hit scan and grenade has an awfully slow travel time for that.
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  11. #51
    Oh yeah she's OP.

    She flies so fast in her Valkyrie form that its damn near impossible to shoot her down.

  12. #52
    High Overlord shifu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zesilo View Post
    I think the rework is amazing but there are a few things I think make her way too survivable.

    1. She regens so much hp per second 2 hanzo body shots dont kill her (junkrat can bomb autoattack and it wont kill, so on and so forth)

    2. Her pistol damage with unlimited ammo is a bit insane as well, just watched a potg at 2700 rating with her headshotting and killing a hanzo and 76 in about 3 seconds then onward to kill a reaper and didnt get the kill because he used his shift ability

    Am I exaggerating this in my head or has anyone noticed anything similar? Thoughts on the new mercy?
    1. First point is absolutely false. As numerous people in this thread have pointed out. The Hanzo or Junkrat would need to land two shots within 5 seconds to kill you.

    2. I will agree that unlimited ammo is a bit absurd. I wouldn't be apposed to having to reload while in Valkyrie. However clearly that Hanzo and Soldier are absolute garbage if they cant figure out how to kill a Mercy while ulting.


    As a Mercy main with over 160 hours on Mercy before her rework. And now sitting at 200+ hours on her currently and sitting at 2900 SR.

    I personally think she is a little overpowered but not for the reasons you gave. I think her rez is even more powerful than before. And is even more game changing then it was with a 5 man. I would at most maybe average about 12-18 rezes a game pre-patch. Now im constantly getting over 25-30 rezes contingent on length of game of course. I found her increase mobility by being able to carry her momentum from her guardian angel to be the biggest buff IMHO. Now i can fly all over the map at an absurd speed mean while noone can shoot me down. I personally absolutely hate the float she has while in Valkyrie but thats just me. We got a massive nerf by no longer having invincibility while rezing. Cant tell you how many ults that has gotten me out of in the past.

    Now you can rez upwards of 3-4 people in a single ult mean while giving AOE heals and damage increases and absurd mobility. Although she has the ability to be an Apache helicopter and mow down everyone from above. Unless her whole team is dead or at full health. It is significantly more beneficial IMHO that the Mercy gives an AOE damage increase to her team. And let her team absolutely destroy the opposing team all while flying as high as possible giving the necessary support.

    I think she is OP in some areas. But all in all i think she is a much better tool kit and has truly come into her own with this latest change.
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  13. #53
    Point is, this game needs SUPPORTS, not HEALERS. Period. When you have 1 healer among supports, the choice is obvious.
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  14. #54
    Pandaren Monk Advent's Avatar
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    What are you talking about?

  15. #55
    People saying it's impossible to shoot her down are just false or need to work on aim. No offense, I myself have a hard time doing it, but I can't tell you how many game she I've been in where she pops Ult (whether me, a teammate, or an enemy) just to get focused into obscurity.
    I went up against a Widow yesterday who single hqndedly gave me problems during my Ult, because the person was really good on her. The only choices I had were to hang behind my team and hope the shield was up, put myself in a building which opened me up to their other team members, or try and go on the offensive to take out Widow before she could get me, and that last choice means I'm not healing my team.
    Also, 76, DVa, and McCree, are all still amazing against her, and their Ults will trump hers 80% of the time.
    These complaints are almost all about her Ult, which still isn't that hard to deal with and is only up a few times during a round. Outside of Ult, she's still just as easy to pick off as she used to be.
    Her 30 second Rez is countered as well. You have a 30 second opening to pick off a 2nd character, and if your pressure is good she won't recover as easily as it's made out to be. If you pick off an overextended person or clustered around a corpse as you push or team fight, Mercy should not be able to get that Rez off and come out alive. She is not immune anymore. If she can move between 3-6 enemies, Rez, and run away then your team is playing wrong. For her to move in like that should be instant death, just like anyone else running into the cluster of your team. Can't tell you how many games lately I see a Genji or even Rein die in the middle of the group and they ask for a Rez and I have to politely tell them to "fuck off."
    It's too early for people to say she's OP. As more people get used to her and see it's still pretty easy to counter this might change.
    It wasn't long ago people complained about Pharah being OP and where has that thread gone? Faded almost to the point of obscurity, hasn't it?

  16. #56
    Well mercy nerfed on ptr

    Her guardian angel momentum is gone and her rez does not reset on ult and does not have reduced Cd just a range increase.
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  17. #57
    I fully expected rez to get nerfed, as it should, but what the fuck are they thinking removing momentum gliding. It was the one thing that added a bit of skill and fun to an otherwise simple hero. Not to mention how this will affect her survavibility, sending her straight back to sneaking out of vision times waiting for.. valkyrie?

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    Well mercy nerfed on ptr

    Her guardian angel momentum is gone and her rez does not reset on ult and does not have reduced Cd just a range increase.
    Well damn ! I'm ok with the changes to her rez during ult...But the removal of the ga momentum ? That was sooo good to move around the battlefield. T_T
    If you have to attack a person instead of what they're saying, then you've already lost the argument.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by zesilo View Post
    I think the rework is amazing but there are a few things I think make her way too survivable.

    1. She regens so much hp per second 2 hanzo body shots dont kill her (junkrat can bomb autoattack and it wont kill, so on and so forth)
    ...

    are we talking baseline or in an augmented state like ult?

    cause she's not regening enough to survive 2 shots from junkrat or hanzo unless they're taking 5+ seconds to line up non-headshot hits.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by A-sayo View Post
    Well damn ! I'm ok with the changes to her rez during ult...But the removal of the ga momentum ? That was sooo good to move around the battlefield. T_T
    I'm the opposite. I disliked the momentum because it would happen to me unintentionally at times killing me.

    However the Rez was the only unique and powerful thing about her ult, without it her ult becomes a generic knock off of Zen and Orisa.

    A weaker heal than Zen, can still die and the heal can't out heal any ultimate's and Orisa damage boost boost more damage than Mercy's.

    I was expecting a duration nerf or maybe 15 seconds instead of 10 but flat out removing it? and for what? You doubled it's range? The current range of rez is the radius of Mercys body, doubling that makes ZERO impact on rez. It is a poor compensation for gutting her ultimate.

    And here we are again back to square one. You make a decent healer that could keep up with the insane damage going out then gut her instead of bringing the other healers in line.
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