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  1. #81
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marweinicus View Post
    She was doing well, even with the nerfs. The nerf to her damage on her gun wasn't ground breaking. And the nerf on the nade was actually pretty justified, since the healing it did was pretty sick. If you nade a low Winston now you get him back up to max in just a few darts. Ana's pickrate has nothing to do with her nerfs, but it has everything to do with Mercy and her being easy mode low skill cap hero. If Mercy's upcoming changes go live (Although I do believe they might add a CD reset on her popping Valkyrie only, just as it is now on live, minus the 10 sec res CD) we'll see Ana more again. Playing Mercy isn't rewarding to me. I just play Mercy sometimes in QP because it's so chill and easy (And I play in the ~4000 range on QP). Playing Ana is a lot more engaging, and dependant on skill that she's a lot more fun to play with her.
    I was carefully not referring to pick rate. I was pointing at her low win ratio. And this doesn't change when you look at the top ranks, all that significantly, so it's not a skill cap issue, or if it is, her skill ceiling is still below the comparable ceiling of, say, Mercy. And that predates the recent Mercy changes.

    Ana is the single hero most likely to lead to a loss, going by the stats.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    I'd be all for letting her keep the momentum, but if that's the new level, the other healers all need buffs up to that point. Lucio needs better healing (and they're seemingly nerfing his mobility, along with Mercy's, so this remains true even if the changes go live as-is)
    A bit old of a post, but still going to drop this here because for some reason I don't see anyone posting that the Lucio change was a bug-

    https://us.battle.net/forums/en/over...page=3#post-46

  3. #83
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    A bit old of a post, but still going to drop this here because for some reason I don't see anyone posting that the Lucio change was a bug-

    https://us.battle.net/forums/en/over...page=3#post-46
    Yeah, that got posted a few hours before I made that comment, but I'm not sure it had been linked to on reddit by then; I hadn't seen it at that point.

    The Lucio wallride "nerf" is a bug. The Mercy momentum "nerf" is to address a bug, and they're trying to find a middle ground rather than leave it where it currently is on the PTR.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Yeah, that got posted a few hours before I made that comment, but I'm not sure it had been linked to on reddit by then; I hadn't seen it at that point.

    The Lucio wallride "nerf" is a bug. The Mercy momentum "nerf" is to address a bug, and they're trying to find a middle ground rather than leave it where it currently is on the PTR.
    Yeah I know. It was on reddit where I found it, but I figured it seems like no one was clarifying it even if a few did see it since then.

  5. #85
    Ive been calling for Mercy nerfs ever since her revamp went live.

    Changes that would make Mercy more fair and not always be the go-to healer:

    - Increase res timer to 45 sec, up from 30 sec.
    - Reduce number of targets that can be healed or boosted during valkyrie to 2 or 3, down from all 5 teammates
    - Don't refresh the res timer when valkyrie is used

  6. #86
    I don't think Mercy is anywhere near as OP as people make her out to be. Sure, in lower levels she's a problem, but no more so than a Pharah that everyone refuses to look into the sky to shoot down. Higher players know how to focus her, and how to shut her down before she's a huge problem, and even how to focus picks, making her Rez seem less of a huge deal.
    I've yet to encounter a game where Mercy was mandatory, and had quite a few games (both on my team and against) that didn't even use her and did quite well, even winning the game.
    That being said, she is very strong right now and some nerfs are potentially necessary. She changes the Meta up for certain ranks (which in my opinion isn't a huge issue as other hero changes since the game launched did the exact same thing), and that can be aggravating for some players.
    Personally, I think they should stick with the no Rez reset on Ult, and make her reload during Ult or have her do less damage. The heal heal is okay, but they could do what Jaylock said and reduce the targets it connects to, but that would definitely reenforce the 2 gal team comps and would be tricky which targets it attaches to. Would kind of be frustrating seeing your beam connect to a 3 full health people while others are sitting at 20-50%.
    Keep her movement speed in the air (I know some disagree) but at the ranks I play (low Plat) she is very easy for people to pick off. I've seen people use Mercy's Ult (even been a victim to this) just to have 76 or McCree use theirs and kill me in a second or 2. I've even seen Widows pick her out of the air. Sure, some people might ask "why use an Ult to counter an Ult," but that happens with so many other heroes that why should you even ask that?

  7. #87
    I don't think that Mercy is SO OP. Basically nearly all class are well balanced imo.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    I was carefully not referring to pick rate. I was pointing at her low win ratio. And this doesn't change when you look at the top ranks, all that significantly, so it's not a skill cap issue, or if it is, her skill ceiling is still below the comparable ceiling of, say, Mercy. And that predates the recent Mercy changes.

    Ana is the single hero most likely to lead to a loss, going by the stats.
    Maybe her low win-rate is because of the fact that she's actually really difficult to play? Mercy just points and clicks and stuff gets healed. Ana has to actually aim, and we all know people can't aim in lower brackets. On my scrub account where I play Tracer and Genji (And sometimes Soldier and Reaper) I got placed at rank 3200 and during my placements I had a few Ana's that were absolute shit. Majority you have Mercy and Zen. A lot of Ana's don't even use her kit correctly. I'll say it again (I think I already did so in this thread), her sleep dart and anti-nade are one of the strongest tools that any hero has, she can nullify ults and deal with flankers the best. Often I just walk into the enemy team and sleep dart a Rein in his face or just anti-nade most of their team.

    Nothing in her kit needs to change. Her sleep dart CD is quite long (12 sec I think from the top of my head?). You can't change that, it's without a doubt the strongest ability anyone has. Both her healing and anti-nade are extremely powerful, usually forcing flankers to retreat. Ana is strong both offensively and defensively. The only thing I can see Blizzard possibly change is to either up her gun damage again to what it was before a few seasons back (Should be okay, Dva and Hog aren't as DPS/flanky as they used to be) or maybe increase her reload speed in some way, I dunno. I've had a few moments where I saw a teammate die because I was in the middle of a reload.

    Ana is the only healer that can effectively defend herself from the likes of Tracer and Genji. Perhaps a Zen too if he gets a lucky headshot in, but Zen doesn't have the kit to do so, Ana does. And as Ana you don't want to be alone anyway. You stay close to your team so you can use your nades offensively.

    As I said before, I play Mercy sometimes because it's so easy. Nice and chill games when I don't want to DPS or heal as Ana. Ana is just a ton harder to get the most out of it, and perhaps a lot of people can't get the most out of her which is why her win-rate is low.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    Ive been calling for Mercy nerfs ever since her revamp went live.

    Changes that would make Mercy more fair and not always be the go-to healer:

    - Increase res timer to 45 sec, up from 30 sec.
    - Reduce number of targets that can be healed or boosted during valkyrie to 2 or 3, down from all 5 teammates
    - Don't refresh the res timer when valkyrie is used
    We're in a very tricky spot regarding Mercy now actually. Let's take a perfect scenario. Entire team vs entire team, 6v6 no trickling. With a Mercy it can basicly become a 7v6 because of her res. That's one res every team fight, 2 if she has her ult up. I think 30 seconds is actually fine right now.

    Regarding your second point, that is only an issue because her valkyrie mode lasts for 20 seconds (Who thought of this duration is absolutely insane). It's almost impossible to kill anyone when Mercy is alive so it's pointless to press on the attack if the enemy Mercy has Valkyrie activated. The only way to effectively kill the Mercy during Valkyrie is to either Dead Eye her or to use Soldier's aimbot against her. It's so hard to one-shot her as a Widow or Cree, more-so if she dashes between teammates all the time. You won't have Dead Eye/Aimbot up each time Mercy pops her Valkyrie because she gets her ult much quicker.

    I do find her less annoying to deal with now. The only annoyance I have with her right now is the duration of her valkyrie mode. And I can see Blizzard reducing the duration a bit on that in the near future. Probably to be on par with the duration of Nano Boost, Sound Barrier and Transcendance.

  9. #89
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marweinicus View Post
    Maybe her low win-rate is because of the fact that she's actually really difficult to play?
    In short, not really.

    https://www.overbuff.com/heroes

    Click on "grandmaster" level only, and sort by winrate, and Ana's at the bottom. And by a lot; she's sitting at a 44.28% win rate at the GM level as I write this, and 2nd-last is Hanzo at 48.01%, nearly a 4% gap.

    If it were a high skill floor, but she had a high skill ceiling to compensate, then you'd expect to see her overall or low-rank win rates be terrible, but GM rates would be at least moderate if not high. Consider Sombra, who in the overall rankings is 2nd-last (just above Ana) in win rate, but at GM levels, is above average at 55.3% (albeit, a low pickrate).

    Either Ana's skill ceiling is SO high it isn't achievable by grandmaster-ranked players consistently (which means it's, in practical terms, not possible to perform at reliably), or her skill ceiling isn't high enough to allow good players to overcome.

    Mercy has a low skill floor and a moderate skill ceiling (which relies on avoiding enemy fire, timing resurrects on the right people, using boost properly, etc). Ana arguably has a high skill floor (she's hard to use and requires fiddly aiming for basically everything), and a low skill ceiling (even playing her optimally, she's super-easy to counter and hose).

    It doesn't mean she CAN'T be used to win. But she's consistently losing more games she's in than she's winning.
    Last edited by Endus; 2017-10-22 at 12:12 AM.

  10. #90
    I am very happy with her current state. Problem well solved Blizzard.

    They gave her back some mobility, and while I haven't been able to figure out how to shoot up without obstacles, I love that Mercy can reliably get a bit of vertical mobility now. I do miss being weightless, gliding for very long distances, letting a hog shoot me to africa etc.. but having a bit of vertical mobility is enough compensation for me.

    They have also managed to nerf her overall rezzing capabilities very well. I am noticing far fewer rezzes than before. Her ult is also much more fun now that you can just use it without waiting for people to die.

    The only thing that bothers me is GA not resetting. I hope they give that back to mercy eventually. Maybe they removed it to offset her new mobility, but still.

  11. #91
    The Insane Jessicka's Avatar
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    For healers, it’s not just about what they’re contributing when they’re healing. They don’t need to heal all the time. It’s what they’re adding when they’re not healing which is what matters. Ana can heal just fine, in a group that’s constantly taking a lot of damage I dare say she can do very well. When they’re not though, outside of sleep she’s dead weight.

    Meanwhile Mercy will be boosting the stronger DPS, boosting DPS ults, or picking off low health players fleeing with her Pistol. I’ve won matches with her spending half the time just glued to Reaper or Doomfist while they one shot their way through the team.

    Zen meanwhile is probably more focused on DPS and Discord, while Harmony is a secondary concern, and Lucio is just Booping and shooting because his healing is passive while he waits for moments to speed boost.

  12. #92
    My main concern about Mercy's present state is that she's the go-to healer in just about every team composition. She's simply good at everything, and her rez ability is pretty much essential. It's to the point now where people don't say they need a healer, they say that they need Mercy.

  13. #93
    I think the biggest issue with Mercy is still her Resurrection...no matter what the CD is. The problem is there is no real hard counter to it. IMO we need a hero who has an ability that, if they kill a player with it, makes them not able to be resurrected by a Mercy (OR a hero that can stop the resurrection from finishing, while the hero is still golden and coming back, can cancel it out). Kinda like how Ana's grenade helps to counter things like Zenyattas Ultimate, we need someone who can counter Mercy. Until there is an actual hard counter to her Resurrection ability, she will always be a must-pick.

    For now the only counter is: Kill the Mercy, which is easier said than done. Especially if she is using her Ultimate. I swear her hitbox becomes smaller when she is using Valkyrie.....
    There is a thin line between not knowing and not caring, and I like to think that I walk that line every day.

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