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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Nikkaszal View Post
    They misclicked. Simple as that. You cannot physically dodge a Nova or Ana Q if it was shot around the centre of your hitbox.
    Yes you can. Often with Ana when I see an ally running away from something coming along my side I aim where they will be in order to hit them. That projectile has travel time (or the lag for it and the server compensation for ping is just bad and needs to be more forgiving), and it's awful. Piercing healing darts should be a standard part of the kit because a death ball is also the best counter to Ana. I normally have lots of fun with skill shot based heroes. I love Chromie, KT, Nova and the like. I really hate Ana because her kit just doesn't work in the game. A skill shot to heal is a cool idea, but in practice it is often more frustrating than not. With Uther, Tyrande, Malf or Stuk I have to find my ally, then click them with the heal and then I save them. With Ana I need to find who needs the heal the most, go run to somewhere I get clear LoS then hope they stay put while I heal them. There have been plenty of games thus far that I've watched squishy mobile assassins like Tracer go splat because the heal I sent to them missed because they moved or because some one else moved into the way. Every now and then you can get some "nice" moments out of Ana, but really it's just a moment when the characters mechanics don't trip over themselves and so you actually get to play the game and not fight against it.
    What are you willing to sacrifice?

  2. #22
    Old God Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kendro1200 View Post
    Yes you can. Often with Ana when I see an ally running away from something coming along my side I aim where they will be in order to hit them. That projectile has travel time (or the lag for it and the server compensation for ping is just bad and needs to be more forgiving), and it's awful. Piercing healing darts should be a standard part of the kit because a death ball is also the best counter to Ana. I normally have lots of fun with skill shot based heroes. I love Chromie, KT, Nova and the like. I really hate Ana because her kit just doesn't work in the game. A skill shot to heal is a cool idea, but in practice it is often more frustrating than not. With Uther, Tyrande, Malf or Stuk I have to find my ally, then click them with the heal and then I save them. With Ana I need to find who needs the heal the most, go run to somewhere I get clear LoS then hope they stay put while I heal them. There have been plenty of games thus far that I've watched squishy mobile assassins like Tracer go splat because the heal I sent to them missed because they moved or because some one else moved into the way. Every now and then you can get some "nice" moments out of Ana, but really it's just a moment when the characters mechanics don't trip over themselves and so you actually get to play the game and not fight against it.
    Are you sane? Why exactly you want to remove weakness of a hero while keeping all his strong parts?

    Yes, it has travel time, but its insignificant granted you have zero "wind-up" time for casting healing dart and projectile travels at speed of ~50 meters per second, with this speed it'll travel his 12,75 max range in 0,255 second, regular hero speed is 4 (iirc) meters per second, which leaves us with regular character being able to travel just 1 meter during 0,255 seconds healing dart travel time at its maximum range (which if you are a good player you should never trust, you never cast skillshots at their max range if you plan to reliably hit things. Granted that "he is CCed" options are not available).

    Now, we established that hero can travel 1 meter during healing dart max range travel time, is this enough to "miss" this skillshot? No, it's width is 1 meter, and depending on character (from 0,625 to 1,25 meters radius depending on who you shoot at) it will be from hard to impossible to move out of it. So, if you shoot your healing dart at moving Tychus (or bigger target) in fucking center of his collision model (which you shouldn't do) he won't be available to "dodge" it by changing direction of movement. Slimmer characters like Nova or Murky will be able to do that thanks to their small collision model, but it will happen only if you aim at the very center of their model, when you correct your aim against their movement - you'll hit reliable healing darts.

    Seriously, it just boggles my mind that people find this skillshot to be hard to hit, or awful, or easy to dodge while stating that they play other skillshot based characters in the same fucking post. How exactly a skillshot that is this wide, quick and requires no cast time at all is hard to land? how do you play Chromie then? Just lob shit on general direction of enemies and hope it connects?

    And just to add to ridicule - it will always be harder to land "offensive" skillshots because your opponents will actively dodge them, while you allies are not actively dodging your healing darts, they are moving quite predictable if you look at their position relatively to enemy position
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
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  3. #23
    Pandaren Monk RH92's Avatar
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    No idea what is the problem, the ability is stupidly easy to land. You are either bad or friendly targets are juking you.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    Now, we established that hero can travel 1 meter during healing dart max range travel time, is this enough to "miss" this skillshot? No, it's width is 1 meter, and depending on character (from 0,625 to 1,25 meters radius depending on who you shoot at) it will be from hard to impossible to move out of it. So, if you shoot your healing dart at moving Tychus (or bigger target) in fucking center of his collision model (which you shouldn't do) he won't be available to "dodge" it by changing direction of movement. ]
    You can claim this all you want, but real world experience shows this to not be remotely true, maybe your numbers are wrong. I have literally watched it happen in nearly every game with an Ana. She can fire at a fucking STATIONARY target and if the target even barely moves before the shot hits(which happens a lot), the shot misses. Time and time again, no matter what you claim. When an Ana is on my team, I make a point to STOP moving and standing stock still anytime I need healing, cause if I don't, I'm not getting heals unless Ana is practically riding me.

  5. #25
    Legendary! Nikkaszal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormcall View Post
    You can claim this all you want, but real world experience shows this to not be remotely true, maybe your numbers are wrong. I have literally watched it happen in nearly every game with an Ana. She can fire at a fucking STATIONARY target and if the target even barely moves before the shot hits(which happens a lot), the shot misses. Time and time again, no matter what you claim. When an Ana is on my team, I make a point to STOP moving and standing stock still anytime I need healing, cause if I don't, I'm not getting heals unless Ana is practically riding me.
    Again

    That Ana misclicked.
    (This signature was removed for violation of the Avatar & Signature Guidelines)

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Nikkaszal View Post
    Again

    That Ana misclicked.
    No, she didn't. You could see the shot traveling STRAIGHT ON at the hero, and it ONLY missed cause they moved. Clear as fucking day, mate.

  7. #27
    The problem is the split second im moving mouse to where i THINK they are going to move they are often still moving and make a change in direction which ruins what I just tried to shoot. The delay is in part to do lag both technical and physically. Granted its a rather small time but theres a lag between the time I input my command, the computer recieves and transmits it to host and time for the host to communicate it to me and then for me to see and process it. (Granted its super fast, its still there.) This leads to missed shots because its very hard for our brains to react to something in milliseconds when were already clicking mouse.
    Next, the other issue is other heros blocking shots and leading to last second deaths where I was literally about to heal but a friendly stitches blocked the thrall or omg Etc... you get the idea. I often have to try to reposition and this leaves me open to ganks or the likes.
    I feel those two are really the main problems. When people say travel time isnt instant I think they're really talking about the time form input-pc-host-pc-other player-reaction.

  8. #28
    I've been playing her a bit since she's been released (and I don't often play support) and quite enjoyed her. The sleep dart is great. I'm not too worried about the healing dart issue raised although I think we'll see it tweaked as well as the grenade. Main issue for me is blocking. Even if you position yourself well you can't prevent some full health monkey blocking line of sight to low health character. Had a couple of games last night where we lost people in team fights because of blocking or bunching. The Eye of Horus Ult feels clunky and awkward (although I like the idea of it just not the implementation).

  9. #29
    Old God Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zapanth View Post
    The problem is the split second im moving mouse to where i THINK they are going to move they are often still moving and make a change in direction which ruins what I just tried to shoot. The delay is in part to do lag both technical and physically. Granted its a rather small time but theres a lag between the time I input my command, the computer recieves and transmits it to host and time for the host to communicate it to me and then for me to see and process it. (Granted its super fast, its still there.) This leads to missed shots because its very hard for our brains to react to something in milliseconds when were already clicking mouse.
    Next, the other issue is other heros blocking shots and leading to last second deaths where I was literally about to heal but a friendly stitches blocked the thrall or omg Etc... you get the idea. I often have to try to reposition and this leaves me open to ganks or the likes.
    I feel those two are really the main problems. When people say travel time isnt instant I think they're really talking about the time form input-pc-host-pc-other player-reaction.
    Sure, but that's the case of missing skillshot (read: misjudging situation), it's similar to sitting behind narrow corridor and wondering why you can't heal a guy in the front - you shouldn't end up in this situation, just like Chromie shouldn't end up in front of Johanna and Uther. The only thing that is easier to land that her healing shot is eye of horus, which literally have no delay or travel time.

    Just an advice about having you shots bodyblocked - move to a location where you can cover targets of importance. Before. The need. To heal. Happens.
    Can't do anything with opponents dislocating your allies, but that's how you counter Ana, partially.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Damz View Post
    I've been playing her a bit since she's been released (and I don't often play support) and quite enjoyed her. The sleep dart is great. I'm not too worried about the healing dart issue raised although I think we'll see it tweaked as well as the grenade. Main issue for me is blocking. Even if you position yourself well you can't prevent some full health monkey blocking line of sight to low health character. Had a couple of games last night where we lost people in team fights because of blocking or bunching. The Eye of Horus Ult feels clunky and awkward (although I like the idea of it just not the implementation).
    Again, having your healing shots missed and blocked is supposed design of Ana. You aren't supposed to have 100% accuracy and healing efficiency, just like BW isn't supposed to heal all 5 team members with every pulse - characters aren't balanced around that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormcall View Post
    No, she didn't. You could see the shot traveling STRAIGHT ON at the hero, and it ONLY missed cause they moved. Clear as fucking day, mate.
    You probably should upload a replay for that, or just a video or high resolution gif. Arguing with proof that no one else can verify doesnt work.

    As others have said i believe its a combination of factors that make Ana miss. To start with no one will reliable hit their target pixel perfect in the center of their hitbox, so it always will be off slightly. Next is the time it takes when someone changes direction for that to be sent to your pc, updated on your screen, processed by your brain and your mouse to be moved to the new expected location.

    Ana is a healer where part of the burden is placed on the receiving player. Both by having predictable movement and proper positioning. Her healing output can be incredibly high and very mana efficient. Im a big fan of her, and it's nice to see other player learn since her release to make it easier to get hit by healing darts. Reading their movements is a lot of fun, albeit rather intense to have to work for every single heal combined with the low cooldown.

  11. #31
    its great that HoTs players get to experience the full Ana experience from OW

  12. #32
    Old God Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tenjen View Post
    its great that HoTs players get to experience the full Ana experience from OW
    How about sniping duels with Widow? Can't capture that. I just love when Ana or Zen on my team says "fuck this widow i'll outsnipe her"
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  13. #33
    I feel like her healing is a bit weak, although I'm used to her being able to heal people to full in the blink of an eye in Overwatch so maybe it's just as well they didn't port that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Synthaxx View Post
    However, the most frustrating thing I've found with her is in the skill shots. The sleep dart I've seen go through the tiniest gaps between enemies.
    So just like in Overwatch then.
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  14. #34
    Old God Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    I feel like her healing is a bit weak, although I'm used to her being able to heal people to full in the blink of an eye in Overwatch so maybe it's just as well they didn't port that.



    So just like in Overwatch then.
    Her healing is far from weak, 2 seconds CD on healing dart, which is then improved by talents and grenade... if you feel like healing is lacking then you probably don't utilize talents and grenade to its full, or it's 5 ulted Sonyas beating on your target. Also you have really powerful option to remove any stuns from target of your healing every 2 seconds. It's OP as fuck against stun-reliant heroes.

    No, it's not like Overwatch. Sleep dart has narrow collision model intentionally, so you have to be smart about it and no use it against enemies who can dodge it by making a 90° turn. Basically you either use it at point blank, against charging at you, or against running away target. Or against someone walking along the wall and not being able to reliably dodge anything... But anyways, worst position to land sleeping darts from is perpendicular to opponents movement, depending on opponents collision model size and speed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    Her healing is far from weak, 2 seconds CD on healing dart, which is then improved by talents and grenade... if you feel like healing is lacking then you probably don't utilize talents and grenade to its full, or it's 5 ulted Sonyas beating on your target. Also you have really powerful option to remove any stuns from target of your healing every 2 seconds. It's OP as fuck against stun-reliant heroes.

    No, it's not like Overwatch. Sleep dart has narrow collision model intentionally, so you have to be smart about it and no use it against enemies who can dodge it by making a 90° turn. Basically you either use it at point blank, against charging at you, or against running away target. Or against someone walking along the wall and not being able to reliably dodge anything... But anyways, worst position to land sleeping darts from is perpendicular to opponents movement, depending on opponents collision model size and speed.
    I haven't played her yet, just initial impressions on being healed by one.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
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  16. #36
    Old God Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    I haven't played her yet, just initial impressions on being healed by one.
    My point is - she can pump out a lot of healing in short span of time but... she needs an ult to do so. In OV Ana can pump out a lot of healing, but it happens only because it's much faster paced game.
    Look at Ana OV healing:
    75 healing over 1 second, 10 rounds per clip, 1,2 shots per second (~8,5 seconds to blow out whole clip).
    So, afaik her healing doesn't stack on target, and if you shoot back to back every 0,8 seconds you lose 1/5 of healing.
    But regardless of that her 10 rounds provides 750 health, which can be boosted by grenade (which also heals for 100).
    So in the end we have +100(grenade) + 450(roughly 4 seconds of +50% healing) + 300(roughly 4 seconds of healing) = 850 over 8 seconds, granted average health pool of 300 it's ridiculous amount of healing. Then she goes on 1,5s reload and everyone dies.

    In HotS she doesn't have that reload block, closest thing to "OV Ana healing" in HotS is her ultimate when out of range, you pump out tons of healing in 8 shots then eat dicks, or "OV Ana played well", when you are not out of range and keep up with healing every 2 seconds. Sorry for thoughts being all over the place but i'm off to home
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

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