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  1. #1

    Mercy nerf on PTR



    If this is correct, Blizzard is thinking of removing the reset on Mercy's res component of her ultimate.

    Sty isn't happy with it, personally this is exactly the change I was hoping they'd go with.

    Also there MAY be a nerf to Lucio's speed as he leaves a wall slide, but it's undocumented and may be a bug.
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  2. #2
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Geoff Goodman
    Let me give some extra context for these changes.

    First off, these changes will not be included with the other changes on the PTR, which will be coming out with the Halloween update. These Mercy changes are purely something that we're experimenting with, and there will likely be more changes coming to try out.


    There was a bug where Mercy's Guardian Angel momentum wasn't slowed correctly sometimes when canceled. This was intensely frustrating for most Mercy players, but some players enjoyed trying to use this bug to gain extra mobility. This bug is important to fix so it doesn't feel like Mercy randomly gets out of your control, but we're looking seeing if there is a way to include some of what people enjoyed about this bug as new functionality for her.


    To reiterate: These changes aren't hitting live any time soon. These are just things we want to try out for now, and they are likely to change.
    https://us.battle.net/forums/en/over...9218114#post-6

    In short; they're testing stuff, and what's on the PTR isn't a live-candidate for Mercy as it is.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Originally Posted by Geoff Goodman
    Let me give some extra context for these changes.

    First off, these changes will not be included with the other changes on the PTR, which will be coming out with the Halloween update. These Mercy changes are purely something that we're experimenting with, and there will likely be more changes coming to try out.


    There was a bug where Mercy's Guardian Angel momentum wasn't slowed correctly sometimes when canceled. This was intensely frustrating for most Mercy players, but some players enjoyed trying to use this bug to gain extra mobility. This bug is important to fix so it doesn't feel like Mercy randomly gets out of your control, but we're looking seeing if there is a way to include some of what people enjoyed about this bug as new functionality for her.


    To reiterate: These changes aren't hitting live any time soon. These are just things we want to try out for now, and they are likely to change.
    https://us.battle.net/forums/en/over...9218114#post-6

    In short; they're testing stuff, and what's on the PTR isn't a live-candidate for Mercy as it is.
    Yeah, that's pretty obvious, but so is the fact that a lot of what happens on PTR makes it to live, regardless of the feedback. (Not to sound like a dick, not my intended tone)
    I'm glad they are fixing the bug though. I've managed to do that by accident and got sent flying over the edge on Route 66 by a Rein hammer swing. Only thing that saved me was a team member getting knocked up by a Junk grenade close to the edge and coming in my view at the last few moments before I plummeted to my death.
    Some of the nerfs I don't disagree with, like the Rez not resetting, even though I will miss it. The movement speed reduction would be a huge nerf in higher ranks because teams that know to focus her do just that, and that movement has gotten me out of a sure kill by being able to duck in and out of LoS while healing my team. Without it, I would have just been a very easy picked off target against the other team.

  4. #4
    Void Lord GennGreymane's Avatar
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    Really should not have changed Mercy. It was pretty unnecessary and too my knowledge her SR issue was already fixed.

    *Also Sty really needs to stop with opinion pieces. They tend to be his most click bait and low quality videos*

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by GennGreymane View Post
    Really should not have changed Mercy. It was pretty unnecessary and too my knowledge her SR issue was already fixed.

    *Also Sty really needs to stop with opinion pieces. They tend to be his most click bait and low quality videos*
    No mercy needed a change. She was frustrating to play as and play against because she could either be useless or turn the tide of battle so dramatically in one second. They just over buffed her. Her rez change was fine, with her ult she could get a max of 4 rezzes if she used them on CD which wasn't likely to happen. The problem was her new momentum glitch (which was on the PTR but made it live anyways like always) combined with her HP regain buff it's hard to kill her.

    Now they just gutted her like they did Ana and I doubt they will do anything else instead
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  6. #6
    Void Lord GennGreymane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    No mercy needed a change. She was frustrating to play as and play against because she could either be useless or turn the tide of battle so dramatically in one second. They just over buffed her. Her rez change was fine, with her ult she could get a max of 4 rezzes if she used them on CD which wasn't likely to happen. The problem was her new momentum glitch (which was on the PTR but made it live anyways like always) combined with her HP regain buff it's hard to kill her.

    Now they just gutted her like they did Ana and I doubt they will do anything else instead
    Everyone says that.....
    You know what else is frustrating to play against? Anything that stops you. Frustration will always exist in a game where you are not just winning. Look at all the people frustrated for hundreds of different reasons. People rage and are frustrated over literally anything in the game that hinders them in the slightest.

    Playing as Mercy was frustrating because the meta specifically countered her and any good team would know to kill the healers first. Her rez change clearly was not fine because she doubled the amount of rezs she would do in a game. She was also anti pick which made her the fixer of dumb mistakes by her teammates. Trust me, it was not the momentum.

    Mercy was also not in the meta. She was not in dive. She was not in tank. She was kinda in protect the bastion the week that was a thing. Etc, etc.

    She became a necessity. People argue she was highly picked before, but that can easily be attributed to being one of 4 healers, one of 2 main healers, and one of those main healers, Ana you described perfectly well. Plus the whole most teams refused to have any one play healer so you were lucky to have one.... guess which healer has an easier time solo healing?

    Mercy didn't create dive. Her changes came from what is essentially a meme. "The hiding Mercy". The Mercy that outplayed the flankers in platinum and below. The Mercy who the stupid DPS playing streamers/youtubers ignored while the Korean players focused. The Mercy that the enemy team ignored and wasted all of their ults. The Mercy behind her tanks keeping them alive getting her ult way faster because your team is too busy off killing a tracer who is baiting them while your soldier tries to solo the rein. Sure its okay to press Q for an easy team wipe, but heaven forbid you can punish bad ult usage. Sure it feels bad when your dumb ult gets countered, but it feels just as bad when a genji deflects your gravaton, or the McCree is competent to kill a Lucio before his ult animation hits the ground, or the Widow 1 shots you mid ult animation as McCree, or Rein just blocks your ult, or etc, etc, etc.

    People complain of "die on the point", but isn't that the same thing as saying "group up"? I play Lucio and I tell people to die on the point. Because it means they are on the point if they listen. Whats the point of dying off the point? If you are on a capture point map, if you are not on the point, the enemy will start capturing it. If you are not on the payload, the enemy can push it back. Fight on the point. Doomfist says it best. "Winners don't lose their objectives!"

    Oh and before we go on this whole "coordinated team effort" joke..... what is the major complaint most people have with this game? A lack of coordinated team effort. The real story of the Mercy was was a lucky dumping of ults. A genji screech, a soldier auto aim, and a McCree dead eye got 3 kills and Mercy rezed and the team that wasted 3 ults to kill 3 targets got punished in that team fight.
    Last edited by GennGreymane; 2017-10-08 at 02:47 AM.

  7. #7
    I wouldn't mind 1 reset with normal reset timer and ult only lasting 10-12 seconds. 20 seconds is way too much.
    If you push a button that finds you a 'random group' and it gives you a random group of people with random skill and random knowledge then you have no right to complain that a 'random group' button did what it was designed to do. The fault lies in your inability to make friends to play with instead of relying on a button designed to be random. It is a 'random group' button, not a 'best of the best' button.

  8. #8
    Pandaren Monk Dartz1979's Avatar
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    Why do they always have to nerf the sexy ones merci is the sexy one when i mention that.
    It don't matter to me I just drive the damn bus!
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  9. #9
    For the love of god, please don't use youtube videos for things like this.

    The Lucio "nerf" is a bug.

    https://us.battle.net/forums/en/over...page=3#post-46

    This is why I hate Overwatch Youtubers. It's far more easier and accurate to stick to whatever Blizzard actually says.

  10. #10
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GennGreymane View Post
    Mercy didn't create dive. Her changes came from what is essentially a meme. "The hiding Mercy". The Mercy that outplayed the flankers in platinum and below. The Mercy who the stupid DPS playing streamers/youtubers ignored while the Korean players focused. The Mercy that the enemy team ignored and wasted all of their ults. The Mercy behind her tanks keeping them alive getting her ult way faster because your team is too busy off killing a tracer who is baiting them while your soldier tries to solo the rein. Sure its okay to press Q for an easy team wipe, but heaven forbid you can punish bad ult usage. Sure it feels bad when your dumb ult gets countered, but it feels just as bad when a genji deflects your gravaton, or the McCree is competent to kill a Lucio before his ult animation hits the ground, or the Widow 1 shots you mid ult animation as McCree, or Rein just blocks your ult, or etc, etc, etc.
    "Hiding Mercy" wasn't about people ducking flankers while healing. It was about Mercies who'd realize the point was likely to get lost, and they had rez, so they left their team, so there would be no beams linking back to her for flankers to use to find her. She hid and the team let the enemy wipe them, and then she rolled in with the full rez, using one ult to offset however many the enemy team blew for the fight, leaving your team ahead.

    Just dodging around and hiding behind architecture while healing your team isn't what the change was meant to stop or prevent, nor what provoked it. It was something much different.

  11. #11
    Void Lord GennGreymane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    "Hiding Mercy" wasn't about people ducking flankers while healing. It was about Mercies who'd realize the point was likely to get lost, and they had rez, so they left their team, so there would be no beams linking back to her for flankers to use to find her. She hid and the team let the enemy wipe them, and then she rolled in with the full rez, using one ult to offset however many the enemy team blew for the fight, leaving your team ahead.

    Just dodging around and hiding behind architecture while healing your team isn't what the change was meant to stop or prevent, nor what provoked it. It was something much different.
    And guess how rare that is
    Rare enough for even streamers who said it was prevalent accidentally let it slip that it was pretty rare. BTW think about this for a second. How many people are alive when she is doing this hiding? 3 still alive? 2 still up? Is she allowing a full team wipe? Which is it? How rare was allowing a full team wipe? was a full team wipe even a guarantee? Or was she hiding because the enemy started the ult spam?

    Sty even has admitted team wipes being reversed was too rare. Says this at the end of his longer video about the Mercy changes on PTR. Goes into why he feels the single target rez is too strong and how bad it is and accidentally lets it slip that the whole team wipe being reversed thing was rare. After months of saying the opposite. And his gold and below followers just kept repeating his statements on the official forums.

    In all honestly his content has gone down hill since he started losing and blaming other people for it and starting to step back on his motto of "rank does not matter" and blaming diamonds who were in his masters games. Then he was all doom and gloom and he would totally go to PUBG instead (as if he would break into a youtube category already saturated)

    His only good content is event related, speculation, and his analyzed vids when its lower ranked players.
    Last edited by GennGreymane; 2017-10-08 at 03:34 AM.

  12. #12
    The Insane Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Good. Mercy has never been more essential to have than right now. It's changed entirely into a game of whack-a-mercy or watch her just undo everything you've done.

    Hardcore Genji giving you issues and you finally put him down? NOPE! You didn't kill the mercy first, so genji's back alive.

    Their bitch-ass sniper Mccree constantly three-shotting you finally got taken out? Well looky look, Mercy brought him back!

    Oh, so you're going to try and go after their Mercy? Shame that you've got a sniper Mccree and hardcore genji to have to fight through to get to her! And if you don't kill her before you kill them... whelp, they're going to be right back up in your face while she slips and slides around the map.


    It's changed getting picks into an almost pointless endeavor now. Mercy's ult only exacerbates that issue.
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  13. #13
    Nerfs are inevitable. Mercy feels crazy powerful now, and overshadows other healers (especially Ana) by a very large margin. Rez allows you to deny picks effortlessly, her healing is easy and constant, and her ult is just balls out insane. Flight, chain rez, constant self heal, chain heal for 20 seconds? Yikes, why not give her 200 bonus HP while we at it. It's fun to play as her, sure, but even in my scrubby quick play games she feels essential.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    Nerfs are inevitable. Mercy feels crazy powerful now, and overshadows other healers (especially Ana) by a very large margin. Rez allows you to deny picks effortlessly, her healing is easy and constant, and her ult is just balls out insane. Flight, chain rez, constant self heal, chain heal for 20 seconds? Yikes, why not give her 200 bonus HP while we at it. It's fun to play as her, sure, but even in my scrubby quick play games she feels essential.
    It's not even fun to play as during her ult.

    It feels far too messy and hectic, just like I thought it would. Nerfing the rez though isn't the way to do it in my opinion. I'd scrap the whole ult to be honest, but I imagine they can't scrap a rework that quickly without making it seem like a failure.

  15. #15
    Honestly I don't mind the mercy changes. In fact, I feel that the other supports should also get a redesign/buff.

  16. #16
    While I appreciate that the changes on PTR aren’t final, there are far better ways of bringing her in line – which I agree absolutely needs to happen, she is a must pick in her current broken state.

    The nerf to momentum is a bit harsh, mobility is all she has. 9/10 times you can’t/don’t shoot back like Lucio or Zen if you’re getting dived, Ana has sleep and can use her nade offensively, Mercy has GA and that’s it pretty much. So IMO the momentum/bunny hop should stay, it’s also made her a lot more fun to play and required a bit of “niche” skill to pull off effectively. People complaining she’s hard to kill haven’t considered countering her properly; use/save visor/highnoon for Valk… like you would save/use Hack to counter Beat… just like you would Ana nade a Grav/Transcendence… it’s not difficult. Anyone with enough game time can almost preempt these too.

    As for rez, well… putting it on a 30sec CD is fine, however the changes that affect Valk have made Valk kinda limp. It has nowhere near the same healing output as Zen, you’ unaffected by it unlike Lucio who also gets shield from his beat and (from my experience) it has less impact than a well-planned Nano.

    My thoughts are, why not keep the rez CD reduction to say 15sec during Valk. In addition, rather than resetting rez when you hit Valk, why not have it just reduce the remaining CD to that equal to the CD during valk.
    e.g someone dies, you rez(30sec CD), you pop Valk, the 30sec becomes 15sec. You could make that a % instead of a flat 15sec alternatively. You’re still only going to get 2 rez max if you don’t get picked; which is easily done with Visor/Highnoon/a well-timed Grav when she flies in to get it.

    Another alternative is to add a debuff, so you can’t rez the same person back-to-back. Once rezzed, they can’t be rezzed again if they die and they need to respawn.

    These are just ideas… because all they’ve done is gut her. Before anyone jumps to conclusions, I’m not a Mercy main but I do enjoy playing her, I’m actually a Zen main so getting sh*t on by Tracer/Genji/Winston/Dva/Doomfist is something I’m used to (unless I have a good Lucio babysit me.)

    If she goes live the way she is now, there isn’t really much point playing her as you’re effectively the old Mercy with a crappier ult and can only res 1 person, which is a shame really as it was nice to see other heroes getting played instead of everyone playing a Dive comp.

  17. #17
    The Insane Jessicka's Avatar
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    PTR changes are so rarely significantly altered that I think other than dealing with bugs and finding that middle ground on her momentum, I can't see these not going live. I agree they're too harsh and deal with the wrong issues, but this is how Blizzard always operate.

    Her res is fine as is, could add maybe 5 seconds to the base cooldown; but how it works with Valkyrie is basically perfect. It's her regen and weird hitbox in Valkyrie that are issues; I mean, there's something to shoot in all those wings and angelic glow but quite what it is, I'm still struggling to work out.
    Last edited by Jessicka; 2017-10-10 at 09:18 AM.

  18. #18
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    Good change. Mercy was way OP and was a 100% pick in almost every CP.

    Maybe now she will have to use her brain and resurrect wisely instead of the first death she sees.

  19. #19
    I've been playing as Mercy a bit lately. Honestly I think that they could drop the rez reset on ulti AND the rez cooldown reduction and she'd still be more than playable.

    As it is, Mercy is an auto-include.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    For the love of god, please don't use youtube videos for things like this.
    It'll be ages until we have patch notes for it though. I did say it was all speculation.
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  20. #20
    The latest PTR change is that when Mercy ultimates, she gains an extra charge of rez for the duration of Valkyrie. Essentially this allows her one extra rez without interacting with the cooldown of the base ability in any way.

    It's a slight buff compared to live in the sense that it's no longer crucial to have rez on cooldown before you pop your ult. The "Rez + Ult + Rez" combo while standing on top of multiple corpses would sometimes give the enemy enough time to kill the Mercy. But now, combined with the extra range on rez while Valkyrie is active, the Mercy can pop her ult beforehand and do a flyby double-rez that leaves her less vulnerable.

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