View Poll Results: What nerf would you prefer?

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  • A mount "Progression System" wherein you slowly upgrade mounts to eventually get close to flying.

    10 4.78%
  • Flying, but only at "take off" runway points, allowing you to glide down to your destination.

    6 2.87%
  • A GW2 system: varied mounts with special abilities (jumping/gliding).

    12 5.74%
  • Flying is allowed, but it requires currency (pixy dust) to use?

    1 0.48%
  • A glider that slowly gets more powerful throughout the expansion.

    3 1.44%
  • I don't want flying, just more robust and engaging world content.

    34 16.27%
  • One specific zone designed with flying gameplay in mind from the start, but only there?

    6 2.87%
  • I want flying at max level, this whole thread is stupid.

    137 65.55%
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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    Agree, we should have more danger in sky.
    I mean this is part of the problem. When flight was introduced in TBC, the zones that were flying content were made with that in mind. Skettis had numerous Kaliri which had a massive aggro radius and specialized in dismounting you in midair. Blade's Edge Mountains had fel cannons in multiple locations that could reduce your character to pulp. Flying over any enemy faction city was a good way to get tagged by their cannons and air patrols and get slaughtered.

    Content added after that was in non-flying zones which is why people complaining about Argus need to check the history of the game; additional zones were never flight enabled.

    The problem is people complained a lot (especially about the Kaliri). Frankly, they were dangerous bastards. Chances are high they would dismount you and if you didn't have the necessary intelligence to find a safe place to land the moment you heard that screech you'd either die from falling damage or you'd drop in the middle of a clump of enemies and get killed that way. It's the same thing with Vashj'ir; people complained about enemies aggroing at them from above or below because they lacked spatial awareness.

  2. #102
    Old God Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motorman View Post
    I have a better one: What if we make the next expansion totally flat so people dont have so many stupid reasons to argue about.
    Flying virtually makes all zones flat, we already had that, it's boring. Flying supposed to take you to previously unreachable places, not to make your travel fast and effortless, that's why you have flight masters zone portals. Anyways, i'll be happy with any outcome - if they'll make another "flat" expansion i'll keep using flying, if they'll completely remove it - i'll be happy to punch my way through everything

    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I mean this is part of the problem. When flight was introduced in TBC, the zones that were flying content were made with that in mind. Skettis had numerous Kaliri which had a massive aggro radius and specialized in dismounting you in midair. Blade's Edge Mountains had fel cannons in multiple locations that could reduce your character to pulp. Flying over any enemy faction city was a good way to get tagged by their cannons and air patrols and get slaughtered.

    Content added after that was in non-flying zones which is why people complaining about Argus need to check the history of the game; additional zones were never flight enabled.

    The problem is people complained a lot (especially about the Kaliri). Frankly, they were dangerous bastards. Chances are high they would dismount you and if you didn't have the necessary intelligence to find a safe place to land the moment you heard that screech you'd either die from falling damage or you'd drop in the middle of a clump of enemies and get killed that way. It's the same thing with Vashj'ir; people complained about enemies aggroing at them from above or below because they lacked spatial awareness.
    My problem with flying is that it makes traveling and navigation safe and easy. Roughly speaking.

    But problem with Kaliri wasn't the fact of them dropping adventures to their death, but due to adventures not being able to counteract that. There was no proper indication of their range (remember "mandatory stealth sequence" that sneak into the world of warcraft? With these blue-ish purple dotted lines? yeah, stuff like that helps a lot), danger or "what the fuck do i do to not get dismounted. Blizzard had no means to resolve this problem at time, so they removed them, but they can make flying fairly dangerous now
    Last edited by Charge me Doctor; 2017-10-10 at 08:34 AM.
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  3. #103
    No no no no. Flying needs no adjustments. They could have done this one or two years after they implemented it but not a decade later. Flying must be kept as it is and is absolutely no topic to debate.
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  4. #104
    Blizz has come to the ultimate compromise with what they have done when it comes to flying

    All those who wanna see the content on the ground can do it cause you need to do it on the ground to get the achievement cause the achievement wants all quests done and exploration plus rep which needs to be done with ground mounts.

    but those of us who want flying will get it eventually when we put in the work which should suit us both!!1.

  5. #105
    Epic! Darknessvamp's Avatar
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    How about instead of gimping flying they incorporate content that uses flying in interesting ways like I don't know the Cloud Serpent racing?
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  6. #106
    Oh look at those poll results.

    But one option is missing. I'm okay with Pathfinder. I like it even. I just don't want it to be BS timegated and only unlocked at x.5. I want Pathfinder for original zones unlocked at x.0 with additional Pathfinders for subsequent patch zones. With this setup I wouldn't even care about Argus that much.

  7. #107
    Stood in the Fire Wolfrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saverem View Post
    I kinda like the GW2 approach, having mounts that excel at different things like sprinting, gliding, jumping, water walking, gathering resources, etc (we already have water walking mounts and gathering resources mount in the Goblin Reaver mount letting you gather herbs while mounted).

    Would give the whole mount system more depth. Right now we have like 400+ available mounts in the game and they all basically do the same thing.
    AMEN BRO! I could't agree with you more, if mounts exceld at different things it would Revolutionize the entire system.

  8. #108
    The poll perfectly summarizes how people actually feel. Stop with the bullshit ideas and changes mid-expansion, stop with the bullshit terrain AND locking it to no-flight, stop with creating convoluted ways to obtain what is, was, and will be the best convenience tool in the whole game. Just have a neat option on max level of the content to buy flying and be done with it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I mean this is part of the problem. When flight was introduced in TBC, the zones that were flying content were made with that in mind. Skettis had numerous Kaliri which had a massive aggro radius and specialized in dismounting you in midair. Blade's Edge Mountains had fel cannons in multiple locations that could reduce your character to pulp. Flying over any enemy faction city was a good way to get tagged by their cannons and air patrols and get slaughtered.

    Content added after that was in non-flying zones which is why people complaining about Argus need to check the history of the game; additional zones were never flight enabled.

    The problem is people complained a lot (especially about the Kaliri). Frankly, they were dangerous bastards. Chances are high they would dismount you and if you didn't have the necessary intelligence to find a safe place to land the moment you heard that screech you'd either die from falling damage or you'd drop in the middle of a clump of enemies and get killed that way. It's the same thing with Vashj'ir; people complained about enemies aggroing at them from above or below because they lacked spatial awareness.
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  9. #109
    Stood in the Fire Wolfrick's Avatar
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    Just Remove flying, and make Mounts have different Qualifications, just like in Guildwars 2, Jumping mounts, Gliding mounts, speed mounts... Ecc

  10. #110
    So flying as been avaible in Legion for relvent recent content once in 7.2 near the end of the Legionfall. It's doesn't need nerfng of removing or anything.

    Let repeat the mantra

    IF YOU DON'T WANT IT DON'T USE IT

  11. #111
    The Lightbringer Perkunas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sails View Post
    So flying as been avaible in Legion for relvent recent content once in 7.2 near the end of the Legionfall. It's doesn't need nerfng of removing or anything.

    Let repeat the mantra

    IF YOU DON'T WANT IT DON'T USE IT
    I think the argument is to allow flying at cap of the expansion but to nerf speeds in the current expansion to 60% faster than running. instead of the 150/280/310 speeds.
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  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Perkunas View Post
    I think the argument is to allow flying at cap of the expansion but to nerf speeds in the current expansion to 60% faster than running. instead of the 150/280/310 speeds.
    And i disagree with that. Why do that? In legion flying has one been avaible to be used for new content once. For the tiny window during the Legionfall rep grind once pathfinder was beaten go exalted. After that it's a convinence. It you feel it's overpowered or gamebreaking for whatever don't sure it

  13. #113
    The Lightbringer Perkunas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sails View Post
    And i disagree with that. Why do that? In legion flying has one been avaible to be used for new content once. For the tiny window during the Legionfall rep grind once pathfinder was beaten go exalted. After that it's a convinence. It you feel it's overpowered or gamebreaking for whatever don't sure it
    I'm content with the current system. Long Pathfinder and then patch content with no flying. I would concede to the removal of pathfinder for a nerf in flight speed in current content, but as it stands I'm personally fine. This was more towards the people who throw a tizzy about not being able to fly above the clouds and skip over the mob and terrain.
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  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Timbleton View Post
    There's a very adamant group of people that want to be able to expedite content with flying early in an expansions launch. They have valid concerns.

    Then there's a whole other group of people that hate flying, think it ruins world content, and makes traveling monotonous. They have valid concerns.

    Then, when 7.1-7.2 hit a lot of people went "Blizz its been long enough I've done everything, give me flying". Makes a lot of sense to me too.

    Then I realized, it's because ground content isn't engaging after a certain point, and flying is too powerful and separated from any other form of content to be gameplay.


    So, what if Blizzard just nerfed flying? Where instead of a 310% speed boost in every direction that takes off immediately with a 1 sec cast time it's something that starts small initially, but slowly develops over time?

    With that in mind, my question is this:
    Is there any redesign, system, mechanic, or reward that would make you ok with this?

    Some examples:


    • A mount "Progression System" wherein you slowly increase the speed of ground mounts and eventually a limited flying-like mount.
    • Allow flying, but only if you "take off" at specific runway points, allowing you to slowly float down to your required destination.
    • A GW2 system where you get different types of mounts with special abilities like jumping high or gliding.
    • Allow flying, but it requires currency (pixy dust) to use.

    • A glider that slowly gets more powerful throughout the expansion, by the end essentially allowing a limited form of flight.
    • Better, more robust world content that actually gives you a reason to be on the ground.
    • Having one specific zone be designed with flying in mind from the start and make it part of the gameplay in the said zone, but only there.

    I personally would like to see some form of limited flying become an actual gameplay mechanic and be used to design really interesting 360 zone content. The problem is, in its current state, flying is too powerful to be anything but a weird version of noclip that feels like cheating.

    I'm very curious to hear what would convince you guys, considering I feel like some players are only hooked on WoW's rewards, and not the actual act of playing the game, which, to be honest, means you should really, like Ion said, either stop playing or take a break.

    Oh, and please keep it civil. Thanks
    they won't ever do this, this is a pointless thread

  15. #115
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    I personally enjoy flying and am fine with pathfinder based systems. Pathfinder grounds you initially in an area but after some time allows you to navigate around the older content easily so long as you at least did the content when it was current. To stab at some of the issues:

    1. "flying makes the game feel small and less engaging"

    With the current pathfinder based system, you probably already have been through the current content for WEEKS and it is growing stale to the point where you do not really want to do it. For instance, after going through the open world in Legion and doing all the WQ you probably hit the point where you thought to yourself "Is this little bit of gold or AP really worth it?" The answer that I at least came to when there wasnt flying was No. To even reach the WQ I wanted might take anywhere from 4-10mins depending on the zone with some zones (im looking at you Highmountain) having a significantly longer travel time. If you enjoy traveling on the ground permanently then more power to you, but to those with limited time anything that reduces the time to do daily tasks is appriciated. I know that there are things such as the flight master whistle or goblin gliders, its just that flying is more direct.

    2. "Redo the flying system with gliding mounts/Specialized mounts"

    First off there are already modes of gliding. Go out and get some goblin gliders/ slowfall potions/noggenfogger elixirs if you love gliding, I know they have a small cooldown/rng but I do not think that hurts too much. There are also abilities such as Slow Fall, Levitate, DH wings along with many other class specific abilities to aid with jumping gaps such as Heroic Leap, Gust of Wind, Grappling Hook. Some of these may not exactly be gliding but they do aid with jumping safely off of cliffs or going over short gaps. As for the specialized mount suggestion, while this seems like an interesting idea with almost 500 mounts throughout WoW history are they going to overhaul every mount? Just make all old mounts under a single category? How do you decide which mounts get what abilities? What about the people who prefer a specific mount but now are at a terrible disadvantage compared to another? Currently, mounts are either ground or flying and are purely cosmetic and reflect the achievements and work by players. Overall, there would be a lot to change and consider that putting time into such a system would be such a burden and hassle when put along things such as raid tuning, pvp tuning, class balance, content creation, new world events, future expansions, etc. Its a nice sounding idea but seems completely unnecessary

    3. "Flying Hazards/Reduced Flying speed"

    Flying hazards can be a pain, specifically when going into enemy cities and avoiding the flying guards. Even though these hazards may be present players will find ways around them through creative means. The same can be said for ground mounts when you know the mob dense areas and make new pathing that may go a little out of the way but is risk free. I am not saying that flying hazards are something they should re-implement but putting these in would not solve the problem of people flying. As for reduced flying speed, this idea could be useful if used in a progression system such as 60% at the start of the expansion but goes up to the maximum amount later on.The issue here is that even if ground mounts would be faster slow flying mounts will still prevail in areas with cliffs or tall mountains along with not really fixing the other issues anti-fliers put forth.

    Overall, what I would say if you do not like flying is to just simply not fly. If you want to make complaints such as it putting you at a disadvantage than it is a conscious choice in your game play just like playing a different class/spec/talent choice. While flying does involve convenience it also reduces the time involved with old content and enabling those with limited time a quick alternative. If you want a different flying system then first consider the options available to you, WoW has had a good class system in the sense of classes having some unique abilities to mix things up for you. If your class does not have a gliding mechanic/stealth there are tools from your friendly engineers/alchemists to give you some form of these abilities, you dont need a mount for these features. Rehauling the mount system would be quite the feat and would require many resources and redesign of many mounts as well as thinking how this system would work. Finally, current proposed fixes to the flying system might solve some problems but never all of them for everyone. The current flying system is basic and easy to understand and if you want a more complex version of it then try to get on a blizzard team or go to a game with more robust flying.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I mean this is part of the problem. When flight was introduced in TBC, the zones that were flying content were made with that in mind. Skettis had numerous Kaliri which had a massive aggro radius and specialized in dismounting you in midair. Blade's Edge Mountains had fel cannons in multiple locations that could reduce your character to pulp. Flying over any enemy faction city was a good way to get tagged by their cannons and air patrols and get slaughtered.

    Content added after that was in non-flying zones which is why people complaining about Argus need to check the history of the game; additional zones were never flight enabled.

    The problem is people complained a lot (especially about the Kaliri). Frankly, they were dangerous bastards. Chances are high they would dismount you and if you didn't have the necessary intelligence to find a safe place to land the moment you heard that screech you'd either die from falling damage or you'd drop in the middle of a clump of enemies and get killed that way. It's the same thing with Vashj'ir; people complained about enemies aggroing at them from above or below because they lacked spatial awareness.
    the real problem here is that blizzard doesn't want to invest time into doing something like that argus could have been a nice small hub to test flying with danger, flying mobs who could dismount you midair, giant ass ships who could one shot you if in range, fel cannons, high altitude breathing bar, fel poisonous fumes if you fly over the magma/volcanoes, fel tempests who drag you down and apply a debuff that you can't fly for 30min etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by caervek View Post
    Obviously this issue doesn't affect me however unlike some raiders I don't see the point in taking satisfaction in this injustice, it's wrong, just because it doesn't hurt me doesn't stop it being wrong, the player base should stand together when Blizzard do stupid shit like this not laugh at the ones being victimised.

  17. #117
    Scarab Lord MeHMeH's Avatar
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    The thing blizzard needs to do is incorporate flying into the world, more like it did in TBC. There should be mobs flying around that can attack you, mobs on the ground with chains to get you down. With stuff like that there is absolutely no reason not to have flying.

    The whole "immersion" is a load of bull as far as im concerned, there isn't anything more lethal to immersion then loss of character control, and that is exactly what you get without flying. You run towards the first flight path you can find and watch your character do things on its own for 5 minutes while you cant play the game.
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  18. #118
    Big mistake introducing flying in TBC, world is not made for flying. Should have added mounted combat instead, much cooler and would work with current world design much better. Then you could have added mount weapons, mount armor and so forth, super cool.

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    Flying virtually makes all zones flat, we already had that, it's boring. Flying supposed to take you to previously unreachable places, not to make your travel fast and effortless, that's why you have flight masters zone portals. Anyways, i'll be happy with any outcome - if they'll make another "flat" expansion i'll keep using flying, if they'll completely remove it - i'll be happy to punch my way through everything
    Flying is just transportation whether by your own mount or by taxi. It just takes me from A to B. Perhaps its a bit more "safe" for me because pvp server but for pve servers this is not even a safety concern.

    Either way I still use ground mount in many cases. Whistle was also fine.

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Trend View Post
    Oh look, a thread about flying. How original.
    Quote Originally Posted by Umbrex View Post
    what if u had an idea actually worth posting?
    How rude.
    .

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