View Poll Results: Do you want Mythic+ removed?

Voters
631. You may not vote on this poll
  • No

    530 83.99%
  • Yes

    101 16.01%
Page 11 of 11 FirstFirst ...
9
10
11
  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    Vanilla dungeons rarely "needed" much CC. Same for TBC. It could help a lot, ironically to your post, it sped things up, it didn't slow things down (because AE was generally weak, focusing mobs down was superior, and CC made that even easier), because it meant less drinking, bandaging, drawn out encounters and so on, but it wasn't "needed".

    The first place it was truly "needed", that I recall, was TBC Heroics. Is that what you're thinking of? As there were mobs with abilities so dangerous that if you let them cast it when the other mobs were alive, then it was a wipe (mind-control on the tank, long-duration fear on the entire party, haste on all the mobs, etc.), and you couldn't keep them locked down with interrupts (which I believe were still on the GCD at that point, except spell-lock), and probably couldn't kill them fast enough to prevent them casting. Not all Heroics had them, either (Slabs and Slave Pens did, Shattered Halls did not, for example).

    Wrath featured more Vanilla/TBC-like design, where CC was helpful, not generally required, in both normal and Heroic dungeons.

    Cata's initially Heroic design had mobs that were hilariously overtuned for the gear-levels of people encountering them, so it was just a matter of "if you can CC a think, CC a thing". There wasn't any particularly intelligent or careful CCing (or, if there was, it wasn't generally required - if someone CC'd the wrong mob, that wasn't ideal but it was still one less thing to do deal with), unlike TBC, it was just really a matter of reducing damage as much as possible. It did add a lot of time to runs, though, because you had to mark up packs to make sure people didn't CC the same stuff.

    The trouble is that "slowing things down" from a Dungeon taking 15-30 minutes or so (as M+), is that if you're asking for full "CC every pack" run like Cata, or even a "CC a lot of packs" run like some TBC Heroics (some could actually be facepulled, like Shattered Halls with a well-geared Pally tank), you're likely increasing that to 1hr+. Which wasn't uncommon in the Vanilla/TBC era of course - dungeons could take 1, 2, 4, even more hours (I mean admittedly with was pretty much all Black Rock stuff if it was taking more than 2 hours, generally).

    Just about getting one or two dungeons done in a night isn't necessarily the great plan you seem to think it is. If such dungeons were more rewarding appropriately to the increased time, great, but being real, I suspect people would find ways to abuse that.
    I'm not sure we ever used CC for anything in Wrath, interrupts sure, but even at the beginning they were pretty easy. TBC was used CC for several things, even normals if everyone was freshly geared ( assassins in Slabs for example), heck it was even used in raids. Vanilla dungeons, or at least the ones I ran, used it, although some of it you had to get creative on, and some of it was more offtanking that CC I guess. Definitely would rotate stuns and interrupts, especially in something like a 45 minute Baron run.

    I really have no issue with having an instance here or there that takes an hour or so. I'm not suggesting everything should go that way, but something that is hard just because it's hard, not just because it needs to be done quickly, would be nice occassionally.

  2. #202
    With this GREAT patch and this FANTASTIC raid (sarcasm) i log on 3 times a week. 2 for raids. 1 for my weekly key. Remove m+, don't care, but then its even less reason to log on.

    Mythic + was fine when legion came out. They made it shit. Hopefully it will be fixed again in the next expansion

  3. #203
    Honestly I am not a fan and would care very little if they were removed. Done maybe a total of 3 that were of the plus range. Just don’t care about 5 mans... I know a lot are enjoying them so I don’t care if they stay. Would love a que for the normal mythic ones though just to get quest done faster.

  4. #204
    My problem isn't with M+ but just with titanforging. They did a really good job solving the AP grinding so I'm very happy with that. The only reason to grind M+ now is for gear, and many mythic raiders do so just to get an edge or to make some more progress. I wish Mythic raids would just drop gear at or very near the forged cap instead of being 25 levels lower like it is right now. I want M+ to be a fun alternative to raiding, not this grind for gear. I want to be able to do a couple with my friends without all of us groaning at the thought of doing more than one a week now.

  5. #205
    Herald of the Titans
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    In the same urn as Vol'Jin
    Posts
    2,647
    Quote Originally Posted by Armourboy View Post
    I really have no issue with having an instance here or there that takes an hour or so. I'm not suggesting everything should go that way, but something that is hard just because it's hard, not just because it needs to be done quickly, would be nice occassionally.
    I guess I don't really see that as a particularly good kind of difficulty.

    I mean, to me, the "difficulty" of CC'ing is largely two things:

    1) Getting people to coordinate and CC the right targets, with CCs that work, without early-aggro'ing the mobs or whatever. This requires heavy use of symbol-marking, or extremely experienced players (and even then...). It adds a lot of time to the dungeon and 80-90% of that extra time is the tank standing there putting symbols on mobs.

    2) Making sure you bring classes/specs who CAN actually CC the mobs you need to CC in the dungeon. That was always a tricky issue, and why my Hunter was super-popular in TBC (because Freezing Trap worked on almost anything), but other classes, that didn't have CC, or didn't have the right CC, were not. Even now, the way CC is given out, some DPS specs don't have CC, or have CC with limited applications, and others have totally awesome CC.

    Does standing around watching the tank put Lucky Charms on the mobs make for a better game? I'm not saying the answer has to be no! It could be yes! But that's what you're asking for here. Lucky Charm times to come back.

    I guess I don't totally mind hour-long dungeons (though, again, let be real, either they need to reward more - and will thus be abused and/or full of GOGOGOGOGOGO people who think you can cut them down to 20 mins because some group in full Mythic raid gear did it in a Youtube video - or people will avoid them like the plague), but I do think if a lot of that extra time is standing around, maybe don't design it that way?

    If they did that they would also need to look very carefully again about who gets CC and how much and what.

  6. #206
    Extra option. I don't see a problem with extra options most times.
    Quote Originally Posted by THE Bigzoman View Post
    Meant Wetback. That's what the guy from Home Depot called it anyway.
    ==================================
    If you say pls because it is shorter than please,
    I'll say no because it is shorter than yes.
    ==================================

  7. #207
    Field Marshal
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Dallas, Tx
    Posts
    83
    Quote Originally Posted by Barnabas View Post
    Strangely I find myself doing that for guildies in mythic+ instead of heroic ones.
    Ya but it's more fun doing harder M+ with guildies than I ever did grinding endless dungeons for them. And with M+ i see at least an AP boost.

  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by Fummockelchen View Post
    That has nothing to do with M+ and has been the case for dungeons since vanilla.

    No M+ is here to stay (like lfr )

    - - - Updated - - -


    Then this game and content is not for you.
    Yeah, because this game is only for the most hardcore of the hardcore, please. Go play EVE or Arma and come back. They implemented a LFG for raids, they can do it for mythics - very little of the content in the game is THAT hard that it *requires* a coordinated group. Do you think using the group finder gets you a coordinated group? The only thing it gives you are options of classes and iL, nothing more - it doesn't give you skill or coordination - you can get a super amazing iL999 Rogue who doesn't know how to get out of the fire, or a iL999 Paladin that can tank AMAZINGLY well but won't work with anyone. It can be behind iL barriers, gold proving grounds or whatever - but it CAN be done. Been playing for a decade, I have seen many things come and go; this is easily done and a simple addition to the game.

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    I'd love to know to, but the only argument I've seen advanced against it, that wasn't some sort of irrational rant was:

    1) I am a raider.

    2) I believe raiders should derived 100% of their gear from raiding, preferably only raiding one difficulty.

    3) It's bad enough that I "have" to raid other difficulties, what an imposition, my monocle often falls out with the horror of it.

    4) Mythic+ potentially gives me gear upgrades in a few slots, despite my l337raidertude.

    5) This makes me angry, as I do not think I should be required to do any PvE that isn't raiding or raiding prep.

    6) The solution to this "problem" is to delete M+ despite its wild popularity. It only appeals to monocle-free plebs anyway.

    They are simply uninterested if one suggests ways in which it might be made less beneficial to raiders (i.e. 4 or 6 piece sets aimed at M+ dropping from M+).
    In other words the people who want it gone are those that want WoD back

  10. #210
    Herald of the Titans
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    In the same urn as Vol'Jin
    Posts
    2,647
    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    In other words the people who want it gone are those that want WoD back
    The same argument structure has been used all the way back to TBC - back then they used it about Arena gear, and it re-appears pretty much whenever decent gear can be got outside of raids, and when a raider might want that gear.

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    The same argument structure has been used all the way back to TBC - back then they used it about Arena gear, and it re-appears pretty much whenever decent gear can be got outside of raids, and when a raider might want that gear.
    These raiders should learn self control. They're perhaps the biggest issue with wow that there is. Hell it's not even the top % that cry about this but the wanna be elites. If there isn't ways to progress outside of raiding people will just end up leaving. Though I do feel that when it comes to pvp gear should be a non issue and it down to skill. But in the end people should be able to gear outside of raid since raid was only done by under 10% of playerbase pre LFR.

  12. #212

  13. #213
    Herald of the Titans Klingers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Parliament of the Daleks
    Posts
    2,591
    Why the hell would I want a form of great, challenging small-group content that provides enjoyment and alternate progression removed? Not that I've even set foot in a Mythic Dungeon yet but it adds longevity to dungeons, gives people something to do other than raids and incentivizes Blizzard to release new dungeons in patches. All good across the board as far as I can see.
    Knowledge is power, and power corrupts. So study hard and be evil.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •