EPA plans to repeal Obama-era Clean Power Plan

[Tijuana]

Indeed.

If it's so damned expensive and awful, why is there a market for it? obviously excessive regulations wouldn't be needed because no one would want to buy it.

Right. Never mind the fact that Democrats OPENLY stated that they wanted to regulate coal from existence, and now they seem to be unaware that they accomplished their goal, when they say "nobody uses it anyway".

[Deleted]

Indeed.

If it's so damned expensive and awful, why is there a market for it? obviously excessive regulations wouldn't be needed because no one would want to buy it.

Well it is damned expensive, if you were to start a new company in coal (something that hasn't happened for quite a long time). They can mostly still continue the business because its old equipment and money that are being used from a time that coal was quite more profitable.

That of course doesn't have a lot to do with the regulation themselves, just a side point.

[Theinquisition]

Right. Never mind the fact that Democrats OPENLY stated that they wanted to regulate coal from existence, and now they seem to be unaware that they accomplished their goal, when they say "nobody uses it anyway".

Well, I think their mentality is in part of why they lost the election. When you have large segments of the population losing their jobs, instead of communicating a plan to get folks back to work, the democrats resorted to....

1. You're white shutup.
2. Don't worry, you don't need a job, we'll just raise taxes. as long as you vote the way we want you to, you'll get enough to survive...maybe.

3. Wait, forget number 2, you're white, go eat some privilege.
4. your issues aren't nearly as important as making sure everyone knows what bathroom they should use.

- - - Updated - - -

Well it is damned expensive, if you were to start a new company in coal (something that hasn't happened for quite a long time). They can mostly still continue the business because its old equipment and money that are being used from a time that coal was quite more profitable.

That of course doesn't have a lot to do with the regulation themselves, just a side point.

To clarify, im not a supporter of coal, just pointing out that if their wasn't a market for it, there wouldn't be a need for excessive regulation.

[Deleted]

To clarify, im not a supporter of coal, just pointing out that if their wasn't a market for it, there wouldn't be a need for excessive regulation.

Well it is one of those things, we tend to try and tax and regulate against things that we don't really want around, and as noted if they didn't already exist, they likely wouldn't prop up by themselves because it is a rather poor investment, when oil and gas exists instead.

But yeah, that isn't much off an excuse for excessive regulations outside of the idea that you simply just want to be rid of something.

[Theinquisition]

Well it is one of those things, we tend to try and tax and regulate against things that we don't really want around, and as noted if they didn't already exist, they likely wouldn't prop up by themselves because it is a rather poor investment, when oil and gas exists instead.

But yeah, that isn't much off an excuse for excessive regulations outside of the idea that you simply just want to be rid of something.

you're a reasonable man Lemposs

[Stormspellz]

Well, I think their mentality is in part of why they lost the election. When you have large segments of the population losing their jobs, instead of communicating a plan to get folks back to work, the democrats resorted to....

1. You're white shutup.
2. Don't worry, you don't need a job, we'll just raise taxes. as long as you vote the way we want you to, you'll get enough to survive...maybe.

3. Wait, forget number 2, you're white, go eat some privilege.
4. your issues aren't nearly as important as making sure everyone knows what bathroom they should use.

- - - Updated - - -



To clarify, im not a supporter of coal, just pointing out that if their wasn't a market for it, there wouldn't be a need for excessive regulation.

Funny Hillary had a whole section of her website about job retraining and moving on from the various fossil fuels as they are becoming less prevalent, granted she failed to get the message across as a campaigner but it was there, she failed at cutting through the political propaganda rhetoric that lead to your line of thinking of the democratic message was.

[Michh]

Good move. Fossil fuel is not the all time best possible energy platform, but it's still a good energy source to use while building up alternative infrastructure.

Fossil fuel and the products that come from fossil fuel are "the" platform. Nothing else even remotely comes close to filling the gap as cheap and economical compared to what the carbon molecule provides. Before even getting into plastics, fertilizers and raw chemicals for steel and concrete, fossil fuel is a miracle discovery that changed mankind as we know it. The resin to make the blades for windmills comes from fossil fuel. The heavy gear oil that keeps the motors from burning up come from fossil fuel.

Edit - I do agree that we need to continue to build infrastructure that moves us away from Fossil Fuels. There's differing opinions on this, but eventually it will run out.

[hrugner]

He shot it down huh? I guess that means it would otherwise have held up in court. That's a good sign for future plans to finish cutting out coal and oil from their subsidy IV drip in the near future.

[Deleted]

you're a reasonable man Lemposs

That's woman, but thanks. I tend to just try and be as reasonable with these things as I can be since that leads to better discussion. But I have to note as well I don't see this as a particularly good thing that the Trump administration is doing, because it could push forward an inevitable event where those jobs simply disappear, and I do wish that they would focus on trying to get these people prepared for a future where coal won't be a job creator in their region, instead of just this weird obsession with coal as if it was going to continue forever.

[Tijuana]

Well, I think their mentality is in part of why they lost the election. When you have large segments of the population losing their jobs, instead of communicating a plan to get folks back to work, the democrats resorted to....

1. You're white shutup.
2. Don't worry, you don't need a job, we'll just raise taxes. as long as you vote the way we want you to, you'll get enough to survive...maybe.

3. Wait, forget number 2, you're white, go eat some privilege.
4. your issues aren't nearly as important as making sure everyone knows what bathroom they should use.

- - - Updated - - -



To clarify, im not a supporter of coal, just pointing out that if their wasn't a market for it, there wouldn't be a need for excessive regulation.

Yep. And they STILL have NO IDEA why anyone would not like being told this. If you live in a bubble and you never let the other side speak, this is what happens.

[Barnabas]

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/e...173500736.html



This is sure to russle some jimmies

Ya cause the bad guy trump administration ended a bunch of lawsuits over a plan that got bogged down in court and never really served any type of real purpose.

[PC2]

Fossil fuel and the products that come from fossil fuel are "the" platform. Nothing else even remotely comes close to filling the gap as cheap and economical compared to what the carbon molecule provides. Before even getting into plastics, fertilizers and raw chemicals for steel and concrete, fossil fuel is a miracle discovery that changed mankind as we know it. The resin to make the blades for windmills comes from fossil fuel. The heavy gear oil that keeps the motors from burning up come from fossil fuel.

Fossil fuel has been amazing for civilization, but I think over the long run there will be better molecules for doing all those tasks. Though it may take a while to build up the infrastructure to make them cheap.

From an electrical perspective fossil fuels are more reliant on centralization, which is less fault tolerant. I think the decentralization that comes from solar panels will be a big plus for suburban and rural properties, where surface area doesn't come at a premium.

[Draco-Onis]

But WHY does natural gas beat coal in every way? Because the free market invented fracking, that your side is against. If you got your way, the world would NOT be enjoying a natural gas boom, that has lowered energy costs for everyone around the world.

The free market did not invent fracking it was invented by scientists and engineers you know the people your side hates.

[Grapemask]

Yep. And they STILL have NO IDEA why anyone would not like being told this. If you live in a bubble and you never let the other side speak, this is what happens.

Or, if you live in a bubble and never listen to what the other side is saying, and instead listen to what your side says the other side is saying, you think the person you're quoting is factually representing the opposition.

[Tijuana]

Or, if you live in a bubble and never listen to what the other side is saying, and instead listen to what your side says the other side is saying, you think the person you're quoting is factually representing the opposition.

Actually it's you who is confused. Me and Tony fully understand we are on the same side.

[Mittens]

The free market did not invent fracking it was invented by scientists and engineers you know the people your side hates.

This is some serious pedantic shit. Assuming that fracking was fully funded by the state it would be quite useless if it wasn't for the businesses that apply the technique. So, yeah the free market might have not developed fracking but it is the reason it's so relevant nowadays.

[Milchshake]

Identity politics is about invoking tribal perspectives. Energy policy based on the economy, jobs, or cost is not identity politics.

Well since the economic and policy impacts of Trump's plan openly undercuts all your stated support for "letting the markets decide". The only reason left for you and other posters to support this, is for Identity Politics. The OP even bragged about this when admitting we wanted to see people get jimmied in Rustle or whatever.


"Jimmies" is maybe redneck slang for, I'm so cynical I dont care if this hurts my future policy or economic goals.

People can totally be too stupid or too cynical to openly admit they engage in Identity Politics.

[Kaleredar]

If it's so damned expensive and awful, why is there a market for it?

Because of subsidies for the first point and utter lack of concern for external costs for the second point.

[Sormine]

Identity politics is about invoking tribal perspectives. Energy policy based on the economy, jobs, or cost is not identity politics.

Yeah, the fact that this policy had Obama's name on it has nothing to do with it. /s

[Draco-Onis]

This is some serious pedantic shit. Assuming that fracking was fully funded by the state it would be quite useless if it wasn't for the businesses that apply the technique. So, yeah the free market might have not developed fracking but it is the reason it's so relevant nowadays.

Read what I was replying to I was being facetious.