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  1. #1

    Heroes of The Storm: Playerbase

    Hello, community.

    I have been an avid League of Legends player for almost 7 years, starting back in 2010 when it first was released.
    After one year of break, I actually came back for a few months, after some friends asked me to join them for a casual match, to reach the gold division in current season. Realizing I didn't have anyway to proceed in climbing the league, Iluckily stopped.

    Now, I could actually write a book about how anti-skill, unpractical and unhealthy that game is for soloq (cause I have no problems in admitting that playing premade 5v5 with friends who actually want to cooperate in order to win and rank up properly might even be enjoyable) players, but it's not the reason I am here for.

    I find the playerbase of a MMO/MOBA game being a very fundamental trait.
    If you are to play competitive and invest time and effort into a game, you wanna make sure that the player pool is wide and fits your expectations.

    The major factor that drags people all over the world to mostly play a game such as League of Legends is due to the largest community and the media around it.



    In April 4th, 2016, an user nicknamed 'BigAlChubbs' opened this thread in the official forums:

    Consistently though, the percentages of total game time were roughly (December 2015 quoted here):

    League of Legends - 22.92% PC Time
    DOTA 2 - 5.09% PC Time
    HOTS - 1.16% PC Time

    If I look at Steam, the range for last month of Dota 2 players was average of 684,154 to 1,291,328 peak concurrent.

    If you use these ratios for League and HOTS, it suggests that, on average, there are 3.1M League players on concurrently at any time, 684K for Dota 2, and 156K for HOTS.

    It also suggests the peak for League is 5.8M concurrent, 1.3M for DOTA 2 and 294K for HOTS.

    To summarize, for how many are on at the same time:
    League - Avg 3.8m, Peak 5.8M
    DOTA 2 (Known stats, unquestionable) - Avg 684K, Peak 1.291M
    HOTS - Avg 156K, Peak 294K

    However, we know Riot says they have peak concurrent users of 7.5M. So if I redraw this a little, knowing raptr is based on playtime and not users, the new suggested ratios are:

    League - Avg 3.8M, Raptr Peak 5.8M, Riot Peak 7.5M
    Net range: 3.8M-7.5M

    DOTA 2 - Avg 684KM, Raptr Peak 1.291M, Riot Peak 1.67M
    Net range: 684K-1.67M

    HOTS - Avg 156K, Raptr Peak 294K, Riot Peak 380K
    Net range: 156K-380K

    Those numbers have been gathered in 2015, but I am pretty sure that throughout the years the player population ratio between these three top MOBAs haven't changed that much.

    It is true, though, that Heroes of The Storm 2.0 still hadn't been released and it might have brought a considerable increase in the player pool.

    I personally find Heroes of The Storm to be such a way more flexible and funny game than League of Legends.
    I still didn't hit level 5 with 15 champions (which I find it a very smart and fair way to filter players into accessing ranked matches, honestly) so I can't speak for the competitive side of it, but the gameplay is fresher, more dynamic and always inside the action.

    Blizzard doesn't want to disclose numbers and I am not sure I can quite understand that but I'll have to respect it for sure.
    I wanted to know what you think about this whole thing.

    Is the game still alive and worth to play among all the other MOBAs?

  2. #2
    Old God Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    Yes it is alive and worth playing. You won't be cockblocked by "progression" system that much like you are in lol. And you won't be overwhelmed with toxic community and abundance of information of dota.

    I see is a problem with your numbers - while Dota 2 numbers are indisputable (you can look them up right now on steam, and there is no way to play dota and for steam to not detect you playing dota), with numbers on LoL we rely only on what riot tells us, or on questionable sources. Same with hots. I don't like when people compare untrustworthy numbers.

    It is true, though, that Heroes of The Storm 2.0 still hadn't been released and it might have brought a considerable increase in the player pool.
    hots 2.0 was released in, like april or something.
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    hots 2.0 was released in, like april or something.
    it took me a moment to get it too, but he meant that by the time the data he uses was gathered, hots 2.0 wasn't released so there might be higher % of hots players in the pool now

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Laciaty View Post
    it took me a moment to get it too, but he meant that by the time the data he uses was gathered, hots 2.0 wasn't released so there might be higher % of hots players in the pool now
    Yeah, correct.

  5. #5
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    HoTS community has the unique ability to get me really tilted, i don't experience this in other moba's or shooters.

    This game attract a special kind of player that is so unresponsive so horrible and even if you put it out there in a calm tone, people are selfish bastards in this game it is silly.
    I believe this is due to the type of player the blizzard brand attracts, casual, very uninterested in team play, in and out type of lobby game play. Toxicity i can handle and ignore easily, intentionally being an ass, thinking the other 4 people on the team are just there for you to mess a bit with, is something i cannot tolerate for long.

    While this is purely anecdotal, in other games people add me to their friends list to help guide and coach the team, since i seem to know what i'm doing and have an enjoyable experience, in this game and you can ask a few people here, yeah no, and i'm not alone in this one i played with people who frequent these forums here before and they are perfectly calm and reasonable, put them in a bad spree of games where people are simply put dickwads and the sane rational person totally loses it eventually.

    Now you can say alright, those are a large part of the player base in any game and that is correct, but this is why there are other modes. However due to blizzard attitude towards games everything is a low barrier entry point, mind you Blizzard actually give lectures on how to make games accessible to large crowds, for anyone who wants to dispute this. However this comes at a price a price that if you play with randoms your gaming experience from a competitive point of view will be horrible, this also means that people will simply stop playing, since sitting there getting angry about how unresponsive the team is and really while you attract more flies with honey than vinegar you will often simply get ignored or even scolded at.

    For that i believe its the reason WoW has become such a community that adds in arbitrary ranking systems like wowprogress dungeon points and item level and why said things are put this high, since you generally get people who think it's completely acceptable to join a group and do the absolute minimum at best. A very divided community is what i see when i look at WoW. However unlike WoW, HoTS do not have a lot of side activities you can do solo that are not dependent on others. So what you see here now is a constant shrinking player base. Where Blizzard cracks down hard on players who become vocal about their teams sometimes correctly so sometimes not. It says it all that it took them i believe 2 years to first come out they are handling people who afk, and that communication to me says they did not really find it a serious thing at first, while that type of behavior is generally the cause of toxicity in many games.

    How to fix this hot mess? Honestly it's over for the competitive scene for solo players. That mode will never recover from years of bad choice after bad choice, i mean the whole ranking system alone feels like its punishing you due to how much you need to win to climb, let alone to terrible flaw in the system that it takes into considering your QM matchmaking, while in my opinion it should have been done exclusively based on placements, placements that at this point really don't do much, really lose most of your games win most of your games you'll still end up very close to where you started last season. They can't add in a higher barrier entry to ranked since they already don't have enough players for that mode to begin with, even if they said "fine guys we are going to totally wipe your hero league mmr, it's no longer based on QM or anything but purely your placements" i do not believe people will suddenly come back in masses and give it another go.

    And i do not think team league alone, brawl mode and QM will give this game the longevity it needs to remain sustainable than again Blizzard franchise attracts a certain type of player so perhaps there are enough to enjoy playing this game solo, being absolute bastards with the "it's just a game, so i can ruin your experience" mantra.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Acidbaron View Post
    HoTS community has the unique ability to get me really tilted, i don't experience this in other moba's or shooters.

    This game attract a special kind of player that is so unresponsive so horrible and even if you put it out there in a calm tone, people are selfish bastards in this game it is silly.
    I believe this is due to the type of player the blizzard brand attracts, casual, very uninterested in team play, in and out type of lobby game play. Toxicity i can handle and ignore easily, intentionally being an ass, thinking the other 4 people on the team are just there for you to mess a bit with, is something i cannot tolerate for long.
    This is due to the "forced 50% winrate" thing ... People lose games , not only in a 50% winrate fashion , but in a far worse winrate that makes this unfortunate players to poll the trigger to toxicity (like being so frustrated of losing , that they will turn toxic to their own teammates and thinking they are doing it on purpose just for them to lose) , But that is only a small number of people with such reasons some others do it as if it is their normal hobby or something
    2Pac Forever !

  7. #7
    I prefer HotS to other mobas a thousand time overs, simply because of the significantly less toxic community. I also feel that each champion varies in a more "fun" way.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by ex0LL View Post
    Hello, community.

    I have been an avid League of Legends player for almost 7 years, starting back in 2010 when it first was released.
    After one year of break, I actually came back for a few months, after some friends asked me to join them for a casual match, to reach the gold division in current season. Realizing I didn't have anyway to proceed in climbing the league, Iluckily stopped.

    Now, I could actually write a book about how anti-skill, unpractical and unhealthy that game is for soloq (cause I have no problems in admitting that playing premade 5v5 with friends who actually want to cooperate in order to win and rank up properly might even be enjoyable) players, but it's not the reason I am here for.

    I find the playerbase of a MMO/MOBA game being a very fundamental trait.
    If you are to play competitive and invest time and effort into a game, you wanna make sure that the player pool is wide and fits your expectations.

    The major factor that drags people all over the world to mostly play a game such as League of Legends is due to the largest community and the media around it.



    In April 4th, 2016, an user nicknamed 'BigAlChubbs' opened this thread in the official forums:




    Those numbers have been gathered in 2015, but I am pretty sure that throughout the years the player population ratio between these three top MOBAs haven't changed that much.

    It is true, though, that Heroes of The Storm 2.0 still hadn't been released and it might have brought a considerable increase in the player pool.

    I personally find Heroes of The Storm to be such a way more flexible and funny game than League of Legends.
    I still didn't hit level 5 with 15 champions (which I find it a very smart and fair way to filter players into accessing ranked matches, honestly) so I can't speak for the competitive side of it, but the gameplay is fresher, more dynamic and always inside the action.

    Blizzard doesn't want to disclose numbers and I am not sure I can quite understand that but I'll have to respect it for sure.
    I wanted to know what you think about this whole thing.

    Is the game still alive and worth to play among all the other MOBAs?
    All MOBA's are garbage. The only thing LoL has for it is its numbers, but I'd advise against supporting that game as it's owned by Tencent, which is in turn controlled by the Chinese Communist Party. Something that's become very much evident with their gradual and heavy pandering towards the Asian market.
    I remember discussing an idea that Tencent is probably to blame for pushing down the popularity of HotS, as they have some shares in Blizzard and probably don't want that competition of their major IP LoL. But I can't prove that.

    Anyway, HotS was strangely a better game in it's alpha and beta stages. After release it's been in a slow decline, which to me proves it's got nothing to do with numbers. The matchmaking has gotten progressively worse, game modes ruined by single heroes and a development team that simply doesn't listen.

    That said, HotS is the best of the MOBA's, by a long margine. But if you want an arena brawler, go with Battlerite instead.

  9. #9
    Old God Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reza2001 View Post
    This is due to the "forced 50% winrate" thing ... People lose games , not only in a 50% winrate fashion , but in a far worse winrate that makes this unfortunate players to poll the trigger to toxicity (like being so frustrated of losing , that they will turn toxic to their own teammates and thinking they are doing it on purpose just for them to lose) , But that is only a small number of people with such reasons some others do it as if it is their normal hobby or something
    The game throws you more challenge the more (and harder) you win, if player can't keep up he'll settle at his win ratio. There is no "forced 50% winrate", the same way you can argue that high diamond players have "forced 70% winrate"
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by ex0LL View Post
    Those numbers have been gathered in 2015, but I am pretty sure that throughout the years the player population ratio between these three top MOBAs haven't changed that much.
    Those numbers were gathered six months after HotS launched, of course they have increased since then.

  11. #11
    I would guess 100.000+ players would be enough to find games relatively quickly, so by that token it shouldn't be an issue. The only situation I'd say you might run into an issue is if you'r hyper competitive and play at the highest skill level. You'd have a small pool of equally skilled players to compete against, say 0,5% at most.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Creamy Flames View Post
    HotS is the best of the MOBA's, by a long margine. But if you want an arena brawler, go with Battlerite instead.
    I have been playing BLC and consequentially contributed in alpha testing for Battlerite.
    I lead the main italian community for the game and collaborated with Johan Ilves (Stunlock Studio's marketing director) for that.

    I have even been rewarded a Lightning Warhound for that
    But that being said, it's like Battlerite doesn't feel as huge as other titles like Overwatch, Heroes of The Storm or League of Legends.
    It just doesn't have that something that actually makes you be consistent or motivate you enough into playing that game.

    I am aware it's still in Early Access stage and soon it's going to be released as Free-To-Play, which probably will grant an increase in playerbase (which currently ranges arond 3-4k) ... but still, there's something in the gameplay that just doesn't feel right, somehow.

    It's very interesting and honestly skill-based unlike the majority of MOBAs, imo, but still an ingredient is missing to the formula for a game that can actually work and even for someone as involved and dedicated to the game as me, is hard to localize it.

    I actually didn't know about the Tencent party ownership.
    I heard during my break from that game a while ago that Riot Games was acquired by some asian society (I thought korean, sincerely), but couldn't really tell which enterprise.

  13. #13
    Well the main problem with HoTS - it started very late and big part of MOBA cake was already taken. Second - as sb mentioned mmr and matchmaking sucks and this should be first priority to fix.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    The game throws you more challenge the more (and harder) you win, if player can't keep up he'll settle at his win ratio. There is no "forced 50% winrate", the same way you can argue that high diamond players have "forced 70% winrate"
    Well Winrate doesn't matter much in a game where you can't carry , or needs actual team work to win and most of all , The Match Making System just ignores it

    And I see Diamond/Master players being in my team in QM (And I am plat , so plat winrate = master winrate ? makes no sense really) , Man I have to tell you that this guys are really terrible not in the actual game , but in chatting ... They just turn toxic for no reason and think you've lost them the game
    2Pac Forever !

  15. #15
    I also had participated in hots alpha and agree it was tons more fun back then, 2.0 tho was the nail in the coffin for me and I havent looked back.

    hots's problem is that it tries to circumvent its own design.
    the game was designed to be played by full 5 player teams, like 5 guys who are on vent/ts/whatever and play together all the time and practice, do strats etc etc. that is its core design and outside of that -in my opinion- it simply doesnt work.
    this game just doesnt work for a solo queuer, duo-queuer etc etc nothing in its design supports those playstyles, its either full teamplay 100% or go home.

    I do believe if you are playing the game the way its meant to be played its really sick, but I do not and have left it behind.
    had a lot of fun tho for a while untill I didnt.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by skorpio View Post
    Well the main problem with HoTS - it started very late and big part of MOBA cake was already taken. Second - as sb mentioned mmr and matchmaking sucks and this should be first priority to fix.
    They somehow absolutely cannot get quick play MM working. Everything they tried to fix broke again. It's ridiculous.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
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    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    They somehow absolutely cannot get quick play MM working. Everything they tried to fix broke again. It's ridiculous.
    Nor HL matchmaking. Got matched with a guy the other day who was doing his 3rd HL game ever, at level 130. I'm almost level 1400, with more than 6100 games total and almost half of those being HL.
    Moderator of Heroes of the Storm, come say hi!

  18. #18
    Old God Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reza2001 View Post
    Well Winrate doesn't matter much in a game where you can't carry , or needs actual team work to win and most of all , The Match Making System just ignores it

    And I see Diamond/Master players being in my team in QM (And I am plat , so plat winrate = master winrate ? makes no sense really) , Man I have to tell you that this guys are really terrible not in the actual game , but in chatting ... They just turn toxic for no reason and think you've lost them the game
    QM uses completely different MM and irrelevant to your or anyone elses' rank. Point still stands - if you are good enough and play a lot of games you will be where you are supposed to be

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lothar View Post
    I also had participated in hots alpha and agree it was tons more fun back then, 2.0 tho was the nail in the coffin for me and I havent looked back.
    If you can call seal clubbing "fun" - yeah. MM was broken, i've managed to get rank 2 or so and my MMR carried (i believe, that's the only explanation of being put in diamond after promo games in season 1) along
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Acidbaron View Post

    How to fix this hot mess? Honestly it's over for the competitive scene for solo players.
    I've gone through your whole post, and I actually couldn't agree more with each and every single word you said.

    Every competitive game now feels so dull.

    Before eSport solid concept was introduced, even League of Legends was enjoyable for solo players.
    Before the Rift rework and dragon buff + herald introduction (which basically pushed a forced team play into a decisive action for the match) season, I reached my top division (platinum 2) with relative easiness. I know it's not even that much, but with that being said, I have never felt so satisfied in a competitive game, cause I knew I gained it all through my own hands.

    Plus, about what you said, I do feel the same thing about the detachment HoTS players hold towards matches.
    Sometimes it's like being in an AI match where even your teammates are not real players. They won't even answer the chat.

    Quote Originally Posted by skorpio View Post
    Well the main problem with HoTS - it started very late and big part of MOBA cake was already taken. Second - as sb mentioned mmr and matchmaking sucks and this should be first priority to fix.
    I very much agree with this, aswell.
    HoTS is the latest MOBA and yet the best one, in my opinion.
    But as for MOBAs nature, which means player investing ingent sums of money into purchasing skins and features, it's only natural that even in the worse case scenario, players still do prefer to stick with their very first title (which for the most is probably League of Legends).

    Quote Originally Posted by Lothar View Post
    hots's problem is that it tries to circumvent its own design.
    the game was designed to be played by full 5 player teams, like 5 guys who are on vent/ts/whatever and play together all the time and practice, do strats etc etc. that is its core design and outside of that -in my opinion- it simply doesnt work.
    this game just doesnt work for a solo queuer, duo-queuer etc etc nothing in its design supports those playstyles, its either full teamplay 100% or go home.
    Well, I'm sorry but I disagree.
    I don't know about DoTA cause I've never played it at all, but I can say for sure that League of Legends has the same exact problem.

    The introduction of eSport essentially broke soloq experience for players.

  20. #20
    Pandaren Monk RH92's Avatar
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    The biggest problem with HotS the stupidity of players.

    They refuse to learn anything and game itself fails to teach any fundamentals and even if you lose you still get commendation you were good in some random area. You might have died 12 times, but you did 2% more damage than average! Good job!

    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    The game throws you more challenge the more (and harder) you win, if player can't keep up he'll settle at his win ratio. There is no "forced 50% winrate", the same way you can argue that high diamond players have "forced 70% winrate"
    Then why after having a winning streak I am suddenly in games full of people ranked lower than me (Often 2-3 divions lower)? I guess the challenge is not to play with better against better, but to see if you can carry the worse.
    Last edited by RH92; 2017-10-11 at 04:11 PM.

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