Will the Holinkoaster Effect end next xpac?

[Kralljin]

All the while there is less reason to do PvP now, due to nerfed rewards, than any other time in WoW's life.

From a PvE POV, PvP is useful for gearing for the first time since BC.

A highlevel Relic from PvP is also great in PvE, not even mentioning the AP gained from it or Legendaries.

[Dizzeeyooo]

From a PvE POV, PvP is useful for gearing for the first time since BC.

A highlevel Relic from PvP is also great in PvE, not even mentioning the AP gained from it or Legendaries.

and yet almost 80% less people are actively pvping now vs actively pvping in WoD - funny that

also you clearly didn't pvp in cata if you think tbc was the last time pvp gear was useful in pve xD

[Kralljin]

and yet almost 80% less people are actively pvping now vs actively pvping in WoD - funny that

My personal assumption on this one is that the reward structure in PvP has basically become that cryptic to an outside player that not a lot of people feel motivated to do it.

Previously you had a vendor that sold you gear for honour / Conquest points, easy to understand and pretty in line with the PvP system since Vanilla.

Nowadays, gear flies randomnly into your inventory, which especially in random bg's is sometimes Combatant, sometimes Gladiator, the fact that Elite pieces are randomnly awarded once you hit 2k isn't even mentioned by the game itself, and so forth.

In terms of giving information regarding how the PvP system works, Blizzard has failed on a legendary scale this expansion.

also you clearly didn't pvp in cata if you think tbc was the last time pvp gear was useful in pve xD

The PvP system between Wotlk and MoP didn't exactly change, at least from a gearing PoV, you're free to enlighten me why during Cata PvP gear was so damn useful in PvE.

The only thing i remember from this phase was that RBG was an utter disaster due PvE stuff, like Cunning of the cruel, Gurthalak, Rathrak and so forth.

[Dizzeeyooo]

The PvP system between Wotlk and MoP didn't exactly change, at least from a gearing PoV, you're free to enlighten me why during Cata PvP gear so damn useful in PvE

t2 season 9 pvp weapons were equal to heroic ilvl pve weapons, and were available before heroic raids opened

[Kralljin]

t2 season 9 pvp weapons were equal to heroic ilvl pve weapons, and were available before heroic raids opened

Something that applied for a rather limited time and even more limited people, T2 weapons were not exactly common.

And single season.

[Dizzeeyooo]

Something that applied for a rather limited time and even more limited people, T2 weapons were not exactly common.

And single season.

probably around 5x/6x as many people got their t2 weapons that early in cata compared to the total number of people who actively play arena now - funny right

but na, people would obviously be queuing up left right and centre to play legion pvp if they knew how "rewarding" it was, the fact that only around 50k people are choosing to do it is absolutely nothing to do with how boring as hell 4 button pve dps rotation legion pvp gameplay is

[Kralljin]

probably around 5x/6x as many people got their t2 weapons that early in cata compared to the total number of people who actively play arena now - funny right

Going by the numbers posted earlier...during Cata Season 1, you had as many people reaching 2k+ within the first week as people who played "actively" rated pvp in total during a MoP / WoD season?

[Dizzeeyooo]

Going by the numbers posted earlier...during Cata Season 1, you had as many people reaching 2k+ within the first week as people who played "actively" rated pvp in total during a MoP / WoD season?

true, probably a tiny bit optimistic, lets say 3x-4x instead - pvp participation during and immediately after wotlk was absolutely gigantic + how useful pvp weapons were going to be for pve progress was known beforhand to pretty much everyone except blizzard (who took two weeks to fix the issue lol)

[Kralljin]

true, probably a tiny bit optimistic, lets say 3x-4x instead

Would still imply that with MoP there was a massive drop in PvP participation.

That would mean that the number of people who reached 2k super fast in Cata, is the same one as the one played rated pvp at all in MoP.

- pvp participation during and immediately after wotlk was absolutely gigantic + how useful pvp weapons were going to be for pve progress was known beforhand to pretty much everyone except blizzard (who took two weeks to fix the issue lol)

You seriously overestimate Players, especially since Naxx / ToC handed out great PvE weapons for free.

Most people didn't even bother about "pve progression" or anything since Wotlk made a great shift towards random raiding, where PvE Progress is not that relevant to the single player as opposed to previous expansions.

Some people did this, but this number is far lower than you imagine.

In TBC PvP was simply extremely popular because even random bg's gave you SSC / TK equivalent gear, and the only alternative was raiding said places, which was totally out of reach for most players.

[Nuba]

sure looks like pvp is not losing activity exDee

thanks I hate this kind of "big text troll" and I could notice it was a troll by the second line, you saved me some googleing

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the fact that Elite pieces are randomnly awarded once you hit 2k isn't even mentioned by the game itself, and so forth.

I never ever BGed on 2k+ toons in legion (LOL!) and this is kinda new to me.... YOU CAN GET ELITE GEAR IN RANDOM BGS AFTER U HIT 2K AS RANDOM DROP?!?!?

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In TBC PvP was simply extremely popular because even random bg's gave you SSC / TK equivalent gear, and the only alternative was raiding said places, which was totally out of reach for most players.

This is wrong in a few billion levels if not all of them.
The player mentality in TBC and early-mid WOTLK was very different than nowadays. For the entire TBC duration raiding was seen as the "lesser" activity by mostly everyone that knew at least what half the buttons in their spellbooks did, and was usually chased as the "ultimate goal" a player had to do in the game. People wanted to PvP because it was the only thing that would prove they were good players back then.
I understand with all the dumbing and how different the general player's mentaility went through the years that changed a lot, BUT DURING TBC saying you were "a PvEer" was generally threated as an insult.
Holinka went into that direction wrongly though, and by making "pvp an elite-only thing and casual pvp meaningless" he literally destroyed PvP and pushed the players who wanted to PvP away from the game, note that those players didn't "just go do PvE instead", they literally quit the game (see: Dizzy's replies)

[Kralljin]

I never ever BGed on 2k+ toons in legion (LOL!) and this is kinda new to me.... YOU CAN GET ELITE GEAR IN RANDOM BGS AFTER U HIT 2K AS RANDOM DROP?!?!?

Sorry if my post was unclear, but you have a chance to receive Elite Gear if you do rated PvP above 2k, only the weekly reward is safe to award an elite piece if your previous highest rating was above 2k.

You cannot earn Elite gear from doing unrated PvP.

[Lightbull]

Holinka was the lead. Adding a new lead with exactly the same PvP team isn't going to change much.

Of course, people will blame Holinka anyway if PvP ends up being better next expansion.

[Nuba]

Holinka was the lead. Adding a new lead with exactly the same PvP team isn't going to change much.

Of course, people will blame Holinka anyway if PvP ends up being better next expansion.

A quick note: I don't blame him despite hating what he represents
But the massive downfall of PvP surely started with him (and activision) taking over, so he indeed marked "the begining of the fall"

[Caolela]

Like i'd ever go to Blizzcon as an attendee. You'd have to pay me to go there. (Literally, like, i'd have to be there for work.)

Was j/k man. Yeah I can't see any of certain people here at that soiree. I won't ever be.

[Axaion]

As much as i dislike current pvp, i doubt he had much say, or dev time allocated to him compared to the PvE teams.

PvP was way better in BC/Wrath though, you could even.. duel then.

We need to be able to duel, maybe even 1v1 arenas, but without rewards in it, Because people like being the best at their class, and beating others.

Yes, i realize this will mean stealth players having an advantage, could maybe buff eyes spawnrate or something to somewhat negate that, but not too much to make it useless.

[Caolela]

"Casual PvP is only for fun" - Removing rewards and incentive for normal players to do random battlegrounds

That is a load of nonsense. There are rewards and casual players are playing more than they used to.

What does the old gear system do but make casuals have a terrible grinding experience where they get 2 shot? I PvP'ed on this expansion alot more than any other just cause of that.

What a lot of people don't know, and Blizz doesn't exactly advertise it much, is that the reason you don't feel the 'gear grind' in Legion is because new 110 dings are put into separate queues with other new dings, all having not reached Prestige 1 yet. After P1 you go into normal queues.

If you were put into normal queues as a new ding with everyone else that are geared, you'd have the same 2-shot experience as pre-Legion.

They do it this way to hide the fact that gear and the rest actually matters.

[docterfreeze]

What skills did Mage exactly lose outside of Deep Freeze and other skills that only saw fringe use?

Leaving even that aside, it's not like that Mage now requires no skill at all to play, which i doubt would even affect the majority of players because, let's be honest, aren't even that good.

Shatter+snapshot: The best mages always refreshed their dots whenever shatter was up, this ensured each tick would have a 50% increased crit chance.

PoM: When it was usable with any casted spell it had a lot of versatility good players could capitalize on.

Alter time(MoP version): This ability had a higher skill ceiling than any other to ever exist in WoW. It had an almost infinite amount of uses.

Armors: Switching your armor to counter your opponent wasn't something only the best mage players did, but it added something extra for an up-and-coming mage player to learn

Combustion: Decent players used it for the stun, better players used it for the inferno blast reset, the best players used it for both.
Spells with different schools: If you're locked out of your main spell school in legion, you're screwed. If you were locked out before the prune, you still had a couple damaging spells you could cast.

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Where did PvPers today get the idea that they need lots rewards to have the motivation to PvP? The greatest reward for PvPing has always been the renown you receive from being one of the best players on your server. Gear was a secondary reward.

[Tyrean]

Where did PvPers today get the idea that they need lots rewards to have the motivation to PvP? The greatest reward for PvPing has always been the renown you receive from being one of the best players on your server. Gear was a secondary reward.

What is a server? You mean like US vs EU? Not sure I understand what this means.

[Kakera]

The fuck does this even mean? Why can't you just play the game and enjoy it like 99% of the player base? Holy shit nerd.

[MagusHenosis]

players are slowing learning wow isnt really a pvp game. They would rather focus on overwatch/hearthstone for that.

Wow is about dungeons and raiding / being social with a guild mostly.

No, it is OK!!!

Blizzard clearly just doesn't want it to be!!!

How does it feel to want there Blizz???

You better delete PvP, if you want it to not be the endgame!!!

But if you did that, then I would curse your name, and leave forever, if you don't return it that is!!! And lots of others would too!!!

Do it blizz!!!

I double dog dare you!!!

See what happens to this game, and your foolish selves if you do OK!!!

You have been warned!!!