Will the Holinkoaster Effect end next xpac?

[Osmeric]

Wasn't the highest demand for pvp in the history of wow back in burning crusade?

That's where the term "welfare epics" originated.

[ThatsOurEric]

Are they still doing X class & spec flavor of the week in pvp?

There's your answer.

[Mafic]

Oh now we’re talking about people late in the season and the extended conquest cap. While you could only get one or two 710 items per week in S3, you could get more in Heroic HFC, granted PvP gear was better in PvP. That’s facts. You not raiding and sticking to casual BGs or low-rated arenas doesn’t mean it was faster to get gear. You’re bound to get duplicate items, but items can get higher level than base + you can get as much as you want. It’s not because it’s a flawed design that those are not rewards.

But I’m done here, I guess people can’t think that pruning ruined the PvP experience because they didn’t even feel it because they didn’t use their class properly before xD

No.

Heroic HFC is not in anyway close to easier access than 710 gear. Not even close.

It is clear to me you do not understand "facts". What is also clear to me that is that you do not realize that even with a loss in a random arena or BG you still gained conquest points.

The current Legion design is flawed because of duplicate items and you can't climb ratings because of the collapsed ladder. Why do you defend an inferior gearing reward system in legion when Blizzard has admitted themselves PVP rewards need to be reworked in BFA?

In summary you think the PVP gear reward system in Legion is fine, while everyone else says it is bad, Blizzard says it is bad, etc. Whyyou know more than PVP players and Blizzard about PVP reward system?

Pleas enlighten us?

[solarfallz]

I would think that the Holinkoaster is when you're playing a class and suddenly you log in and you do 30% less damage because Holinka randomly decided your class was hitting too hard. Bonus points: You log in 2 weeks later and suddenly you're doing 10% more damage than before the nerf.

[Nuba]

I would think that the Holinkoaster is when you're playing a class and suddenly you log in and you do 30% less damage because Holinka randomly decided your class was hitting too hard. Bonus points: You log in 2 weeks later and suddenly you're doing 10% more damage than before the nerf.

Oh hey class X has ranged CC, ranged kick, aoe stun, aoe slow, 4 defensive CDs and 4 mobility CDs, meanwhile class Y has one CC close-range, one defensive CD and zero of everything else, so class X is obviously overperforming class Y.
Lets give class Y a 40% damage buff to fix that issue!

[Mafic]

Oh hey class X has ranged CC, ranged kick, aoe stun, aoe slow, 4 defensive CDs and 4 mobility CDs, meanwhile class Y has one CC close-range, one defensive CD and zero of everything else, so class X is obviously overperforming class Y.
Lets give class Y a 40% damage buff to fix that issue!

Exactly.

Blizz oversimplifies it and misses key nuance to balancing.

For example according to Blizz early Legion Sub had a lot of "control". But a closer examination shows that is misleading and here is why. Sub pre legion had a lot of control, but that control was varied. The control was varied because Sub had Blind, Gouge, garrote from stealth, garrote from shadow dance, cheap shot from stealth, cheap shot from shadow dance and Kidney Shot.

Early legion Sub was cheap spot shadow striking bot basically. Apparently Blizz considers being able to spam cheap shot as "a lot of control". But that makes the spec hard to balance and the over the top mobility made it worse for casters when facing early legion Sub.

Template damage was reduced to reflect how early legion sub was a "control" spec. But a control spec that spams shadow strike or cheap shot isn't a control spec it is an outright nuisance and boring game play too when you are tickling a target with damage and stuns that quickly DR with each other.

[MagusHenosis]

Players are slowing learning WoW isnt really a pvp game. They would rather focus on overwatch/hearthstone for that.

WoW is about dungeons and raiding / being social with a guild mostly.

No, you got it all wrong lol.

Blizzard needs to learn that PvP is the real endgame, if they like it or not.

Blizzard’s problem is that they don’t care how things really are, and care instead about how they want them to be.

This matters FAR more than they realize, and it’s the reason why LOL had SEVEN TIMES the Twitch viewers that WoW did the other day.

WoW is what it is, and what you or anyone else says doesn’t change what it is OK.

Be realistic you carebear......

[RobertoCarlos]

No, you got it all wrong lol.

Blizzard needs to learn that PvP is the real endgame, if they like it or not.

Blizzard’s problem is that they don’t care how things really are, and care instead about how they want them to be.

This matters FAR more than they realize, and it’s the reason why LOL had SEVEN TIMES the Twitch viewers that WoW did the other day.

WoW is what it is, and what you or anyone else says doesn’t change what it is OK.

Be realistic you carebear......

Carebear! thats a new one. Havent heard that on the internet before

[MagusHenosis]

Carebear! thats a new one. Havent heard that on the internet before

Ya, and what did you actually even say here???

Some idiotic bullshit lol???

Just enjoy knowing that I am apex, and you are a hater troll!!!

Take care now, bye bye then!!!

[Nihilan]

Ya, and what did you actually even say here???

Some idiotic bullshit lol???

Just enjoy knowing that I am apex, and you are a hater troll!!!

Take care now, bye bye then!!!

^
This is what twitch does to people. It should come with a warning label.

OT: Has Holinka's vacancy been filled? Or does blizzard regard pvp as such a low priority that they dont feel the need for a lead pvp developer anymore?

[Whitepaw]

PvP has moved too much away from the rest of the game in my opinion - and some of the cohesion between the different elements of the game are gone.

Instanced PvP is now tightly balanced around templates, no procs from anything, a lot of PvP specific talents and no effects from legendaries. Oh, and around 3v3, ofc. Is it fun? Well, it might be in 3v3, but I hate Arenas. That kind of gameplay is just too limited for me. I love battlegrounds, I have the achievement with the title “Battlemaster”, and I have over 125.000 honour kills, so I have been doing a lot of PvP. But the very small scale of 3v3 makes it a sport, not a war. And I think it should be a war. In fact, the best time I ever had with PvP was Wintergrasp battles in WotLK - that was fun! Blizzard tried to do the same in Cataclysm and WoD, but those missed the mark for melee and ranged were way too powerful there.

Now, the problem is that all the tight control in instanced PvP is not present in World PvP. So all the tank specs totally dominate there! I’ve stopped doing World PvP tbh. Tanks do way too much damage and heal way too much. Tanks should be depending on healers and dps to do their bit - so basically, tanks should be nerfed across the board in dps and self healing. And that’s in ALL aspects of the game. And yes, I also play tank specs, but the tanks we have today just do way too much dps and can keep themselves alive way too much. This spills obver into PvP, where they are juggernauts! Unkillable and with very high dps. That part was better in Classic and TBC, where a tank with good healer support was able to make a huge difference in PvP - but he couldn’t do it alone, he needed the dps and healers to back him up.

[Siglius]

^
This is what twitch does to people. It should come with a warning label.

OT: Has Holinka's vacancy been filled? Or does blizzard regard pvp as such a low priority that they dont feel the need for a lead pvp developer anymore?

It has probably been filled I would imagine. New guy probably isn't eager to announce his posistion publicly after seeing Holonki getting death threats.

[fylth]

I hope they allow potions and junk to be used in PVP again. And food. And not the lame ass PVP stuff you randomly get, I want my potions I have stocked up to be put to use again. I miss Catseye elixer and such

[heinz0r]

pvp was systematically ruined by prioritizing balance and "esports lul" over fun

it's the reason the mobility arms race came into existence
it's the reason immortal healers came into existence
it's the reason infinite mana came into existence and then consequently dampening which wasnt a problem until mana wasnt a problem anymore.

killing any comp that wasnt 2dps healer, was also a problem
killing 2v2 was a huge problem
killing duels was another huge problem

giving every single class healing was another problem
giving every class so many defensive and offensive cooldowns was another problem

and i could go on.

pvp used to be simple and yet you always knew who was the better player, now it boils down to smashing offensive cooldowns into defensive cooldowns until finally one party doesnt have any more and drops in a second.



too much mobility, too little casting required, too much durability and yet too much burst damage is what made pvp super boring
throwing in layers upon layers of overcomplications like templates, pvp talents and such only adds to the problems

not to mention how all the ability pruning just made classes way more binary and bland to play

100% agree. Especially the "1 healer beats 2 dps or more" has lead to alot of the current problems. Born from Blizzards desperate need to make 3on3 arena into something great, which noone outside of the wow playerbase actually thinks off it.

[Deleted]

PvP is real endgame. About 50% of WoW population did bgs and arena in MoP. That's millions. Check Tosans video.

[Speaknoevil]

Elitization" of PvP - removing 2v2 and 5v5, making it so only PvP mounts would remain character-bound (instead of account bound)

PvP mounts were always character specific, lie.

Casual PvP is only for fun" - Removing rewards and incentive for normal players to do random battlegrounds and such is also a big issue here.

The entire prestige system was added so that casual PvP players always have something to work towards, another lie.

PvP Templates" - Having everyone being equal on PvP isn't really a bad thing, but when you remove customization entirely from the game

There was never real customization, there was always an ideal way to do things, with insane advantages, usually, to hardcore PvErs in PvP. Templates are a MONUMENTAL improvement to the game. I would go so far as to say that ilvl should be irrelevant as well.

PvP talents" - this one is a personal issue that I have. I kinda hated having PvP talents instead of a customizable normal talent, because it pushed players even further away from PvP as the rotations and gameplay from a few classes change completely from PvP to PvE with different abilities and such.

PvP talents exist because PvE WoW has been extremely simplified and the only way to make PvP still interesting was to add entire trees of abilities and ability changes.

No new rewards added to rated PvP, ever

New Prestige Mounts
New Prestige Cosmetic and fun awards
New Tabards
New Armors
New Weapon Enchants
New Glad Mounts
New R1 Glad Titles

The first two are for non rated casuals as well. Lets tldr to wrap up: Your post is either intentional deceit to push your narrative or you are completely ignorant of the game.

[Kryptoon]

The rewards you are summarizing here are really useless stuff, painted glass with no value, as traded by Spaniards against Amerindians gold.
It's a nonsense to compare these with pvp gear we use to have in wotlk/mop and so on.
For curiosity I went to a private server, with no pay to win and after hitting 80 in two weeks time I have a solid 5kgs pvp gear that's useful on both instanced and open world pvp.
Your statement about customization is totally false as well, i'm stacking tons of armor penetration on my warrior and the effect is so obvious from starting point.
Far from comparable the balance feeling i have here after two weeks time than on legion wpvp or even instanced after more than 12 months.

As principle templates could have offered so much, but instead it went as major fail. I'm not going to elaborate on this, as it has been done so many times in this section of the forum.

I'm not sure now how many hopes to put in the future of pvp, as the players left in the game seem to enjoy current system, which based on statistics didn't look appealing for the large mass (acknowledged by Blizz which comes with a pvp centrist expansion) . And the only feedback such players can give for polishing pvp cannot be in other direction.

I'm not promoting any private server and I would come back on retail at any day proven that I have predictable ways to enjoy my toon gameplay, without endless grinds or blanket nerfs throwing it to the bottom of the ladder.

[Toronto]

Havent had fun in there since the changes