Jail time for geriatric pronouns.

[GreenGoldSharpie]

You are the one who mentioned your personal experiences in the first place.

h e l l o

If you don't want people to ask you about being trans don't fucking say you're trans.

I did not. Admitting I'm trans doesn't mean I'm open to discussing my own experiences with gender dysphoria anymore than anyone else who went through a trying period in their life wants to discuss and justify an experience they had.

I've actually said more about my teaching in this thread than my being trans. Again, deliberate.

[josykay]

Yeah I am sure you really believe that's true, but I don't. I don't think calling a wolfkin a person is mocking them or devaluing them as a person, I think it's using the language tools that you have developed your entire life to refer to people instead of having a bunch of special snowflakes make them up and then make it a law that you are forced to use them.
Of course you should be polite to your patients, but you shouldn't be compelled to use specific language that you don't want to use with threats.

So... WHAT purpose does it have, despite knowing better, calling a transwoman a "He" or, or even refering to said person, whith a name, said person soesn't legally have anymore? Except "No, no I don't give a shit." And if you refer to a person as an "it" it is per se dehumanzing, so what else does it mean, if not an insult?
You don't make a mistake. You show disrespect to the person. Even if you would believe, that Gender Identity disorder is not a thing, you could still respect people, but you choose to disrespect them.

Even if you don't believe that person, you still are an asshole, because you made the decission, to mock. , and do it on purpose. And what do you expect is the reaction, except the person you insulted feels insulted? Just do it, to spare from arguments... Unless you want to argue, which brings us back to being an asshole.

[GreenGoldSharpie]

You can treat someone with respect without engaging in their silly games.

Do you get to make that decision, or does the patient?

'Cause I'm pretty sure that's the patient.

[Dovashy]

Seems pretty stupid to me to force people to say miss to someone that's a guy...

This is the heart of the discussion. It doesn't matter what gender you perceive them to be by their physical appearance. It's having the courtesy to refer to someone by the pronouns they'd prefer you use.

[Freighter]

Do you get to make that decision, or does the patient?

'Cause I'm pretty sure that's the patient.

They can say what they want, that doesn't make you any more disrespectful.

[Jilor]

Seems pretty stupid to me to force people to say miss to someone that's a guy...

Honest question... how do you feel about intersex people (including hermaphrodites)? There are many chromosomal anomalies and various birth defects regarding genitalia that have all been thoroughly documented. So, take, for example someone born with both sets of sexual organs (or, whom, develops both internal sexual organs), how do you decide what sex/gender they are? Going a step further, when they develop both internal sexual organs, it causes effectively a dual puberty that may have been impossible to foresee. If they are presenting male, they may develop breasts and if they are presenting female, their voice may drop and they could grow notable facial hair. Would you still treat that person the same way you seem to suggest you'd treat a transgender person?

(Just for the record, intersex births happen at a rate of between 1/1,500 to 1/2,000 - and many times are lumped under the transgender umbrella. The odds of you never encountering a single intersex person in life, much like transgender people, is close to zero.)

[GreenGoldSharpie]

So would you get pissed off if somebody asked you about teaching too?

I'm not "pissed." I'm refusing to discuss it while pointing towards the clinical guide for trans people (WPATH) and telling folks my experiences probably aren't that different from those related elsewhere.

That's pretty fair, but you guys want to take me to task for it. It's pathetic actually.

As for teaching? It'd be my choice. I doubt you'd be half as offended if instead of talking about it I sent you to ISBE or my school's website instead.

[Freighter]

Honest question... how do you feel about intersex people (including hermaphrodites)? There are many chromosomal anomalies and various birth defects regarding genitalia that have all been thoroughly documented. So, take, for example someone born with both sets of sexual organs (or, whom, develops both internal sexual organs), how do you decide what sex/gender they are? Going a step further, when they develop both internal sexual organs, it causes effectively a dual puberty that may have been impossible to foresee. If they are presenting male, they may develop breasts and if they are presenting female, their voice may drop and they could grow notable facial hair. Would you still treat that person the same way you seem to suggest you'd treat a transgender person?

(Just for the record, intersex births happen at a rate of between 1/1,500 to 1/2,000 - and many times are lumped under the transgender umbrella. The odds of you never encountering a single intersex person in life, much like transgender people, is close to zero.)

I'll call them what they look like.

[GreenGoldSharpie]

If I told you I was a giraffe, would you call me a giraffe out of respect or not?

Honest question, because you are acting as if respecting another persons wishes is the most important virtue of all, even if the persons wishes are ridiculous.

Until you show me the SoC guide for humans being an animal I'd say it's a pretty disingenuous question.

[josykay]

I'll call them what they look like.

But why is that impossible to do with transgender persons? Or do you call every person, not confirming superficial gender steretypes as "It", or by the different pronoums, despite knowing well enough, that the short haired, ripped woman is a woman? And Why would you do so, except for arguing.

[Freighter]

But why is that impossible to do with transgender persons? Or do you call every person, not confirming superficial gender steretypes as "It", or by the different pronoums, despite knowing well enough, that the short haired, ripped woman is a woman? And Why would you do so, except for arguing.

Have you seen transgender people? MtF don't look like women, FtM don't look like men. MtF definitely do not sound like a woman.

[GreenGoldSharpie]

I'm not offended that you won't talk about it I'm annoyed by your moral indignation. I could give a fuck less if you talk about it or not.

I know you're annoyed, and it's kinda funny actually. I haven't actually asked or demanded anything of you, and you're still all pissed off.

[Jilor]

If I told you I was a giraffe, would you call me a giraffe out of respect or not?

Honest question, because you are acting as if respecting another persons wishes is the most important virtue of all, even if the persons wishes are ridiculous.

Also your reply ignores the premise of what you are quoting. He/She pronoun switching is easy, but not everyone uses he/she, so it's more complicated than you are making it, and is more akin to the scenario I gave you as an example. You are asking someone to go against everything they know in their minds to fit yours. You are trying to control people, nothing more and nothing less.

The biggest thing here that hurts your argument is the hyperbole stage. While I'm not here to force beliefs or views on anyone, it's worth noting that humans cannot be giraffes. As I stated in my last post (to another user) there are many chromosomal and genitalia anomalies and thus, it is possible for both men and women to be born from a human mother and that they could have traits of one or both sexes before any medical intervention. Just a thought to help revise your argument, I think there are better arguments to be made that trying to use hyperbole that is scientifically impossible.

[Deleted]

This thread has gone way too far into discussing the concept of Transgender etc. - which falls under Forbidden Topics. Closing.