What options are available for the nightborne?

[Beloren]

I was just thinking what blizzard could do for the nightborne or will do given how they've set them up and presented them and how the players have reacted to /taken to them - do they have a continuous future? if so what will it be?

I wonder what they set out to do witht hem? At first I was pretty convinced they were night elves with a twist - but it seems that the current night elves are the ones that took a twist in the road - and these are the original kaldorei empire elves - I wonder if they intended a new full race of elf also night based or more a sub-race of night elf, like two halves to the of a coin (nature and arcane) or should that be a third part of a coin (arcane, nature and divine).

When you look at the night elf, according to the lore their core is arcane when they were remade from dark trolls into elves. Arcane and nature get a long very well as we see in the titans (arcane but creating nature from it) and the light sort of works well together tooo, so naturally they took to nature, but the glove their hands really fit was arcane and they really took off with that once they got into it until the overshot and got burned, with one group not touching it for 10k years but the other group continued on - difference is the night elves didn't suffer ill effects from not using the arcane, they just didn't develop civilization, while the nightborne who over relied on it to the absence of natural things got a malady that seemed irreversible till the Valwalker order fixed it.

Not sure if any of this sheds some light on their future or what options they have available to them, but i'd like to find out.

[prwraith]

High botanist boss pretty much proves there'd be no issue integrating their societies.

[Mace]

For starters, for ngihtborne to be truly relevant they'll have to become playable. They made quite a splash in their introduction but they've already faded into the background in 7.3 .... Silgryn tagging along on the horde ship gives some very slight hope, but he seems almost like an afterthought - which atm points to either not playable or playable in some sort of sub race capacity. So the options are as follows:

1. Fully playable as full race:
This isn't inconceivable, we have 3 human races, why not 3 elven ones even if 2 or night elven - they would get improved work, looks, but their unique armor etc should do that. They could be available to both factions. And the argument could go either way. Strong case for the night elven Kaldorei seeing as they greatly venerate them ancestrally and the glorious empire they consider themselves the cpntinuation of, not to mention the night elves have the highborne with them even though much of kaldorei society is more nature focused. I don't expect them to necessarily be integrated with the kaldorei, but they can be allies and close friends, Kaldorei society is very segregated anyway, each discipline pretty much living its own way/world - priests/huntresses don't mix with druids at all except for the big wars, each one sticks to their own affairs and pursuits, and the nightborne would be their own people.

pros: they bring a substantial arcane element to the night elf world. They fit right in with the night, moon and star themes showing the arcane side of the night elves we never saw. IT sort of completes the night elves with a substatnial arcane group as large as the druid group or the priesthood group

Blood elves: Highborne, magic orientated too, whiles the nightborne won't have anything to learn from them as its clear their mastery of magic supercedes any mortal races, still they kind find a kinship and an appreciation. ALso blizz seems to be showing nightborne with blood elves too.

pros: nightborne bring a night elven element to the blood elf alliance, if you were to think of night elves that would fight alongside blood elves, then nightborne/highborne would be your choice. The best way to make it obvious is if the nightborne ears revert to night elven ones after being healed by the arcan'dor. We should see some physical change, because their ears change when they become nightfallen and while the fruit restores them i would expect some reversion to the healthier kaldorei form, but not total, this can shown in the ears.

This also opens up a distinction too: Nightborne on the alliance side could have night elven ears indicative of the group that took the Arcan'dor - face it Thalyssra's actions, choices and behaviour seem so much like Tyrande's, she's like Tyrande done right or arcane version, like a prodigy coming into her own. She's amazing! It could work that those of the resistance that reclaimed the city and ate the fruit team up with the night elves seeing as that's who they worked with most of the time, whiles the blood elves team up with those who we beat in the nighthold, those who followed the echo of Elisande after we defeated her and banded together to help us fight the legion - this is very much like the blood elves of TBC, who U-turned from following Illidan or the legion and did what was right in the end, the blood elves can empathize with that more especially if their punishment is to be denied the fruit, the sunwell can provide them the sustenance they need from its arcane energies and its divine energies preventing htem from turning into nightfallen. This fits well, cos Thalyssra and most of her rebels are like the night elves - they never joined the legion, and fought from the beginning, whiles those who followed elisande, turned against the legion in the end, with only the felborne remaining at the legion's side.

Ofc both factions may not have the nightborne, they may give them to only 1 and give the other faction another race. IF they give the Alliance Nightborne, the horde could get Highmountain or Aldraachi, Ethereal, naga, ogre or High elf - but the last one is more of a sub-race than a new race, and nightborne feel more a sub-race than a full one. If horde the alliance could get High elves but same problem just mentioned, alternatives could be vrykul or Ethereal or a naga sub-race.

2. Nightborne as a Sub-race: Sub-races if they happen seems to be the likely path and an alternative to a full race, less work etc, but likely part of a system now and i suspect is the way we shall see

a) As a night elf sub-race on the alliance: This makes sense and would be the expected course of action, like all sub-races, they'd be their own people with their own identity but have interaction with the originally playable race to the degree the lore provides each group which is unique. For NElves, it's probably a healing of their society, the alliance kaldorei need to embrace their arcane legacy again, and the shal'dorei very much need the balance of nature to fully heal and stabilize them. Both provide the other for each, and both understand each other well. Majority of night elves come from Suramar, and the rebel nightborne who won their city back are very reminiscent of their brothers who fought the legion in the war of the ancients, their actions against the demons would win over even the most annoyed night elves (Tyrande i'm looking at you). Blood elves do have several options for sub-races, including darkfallen san'layn, wretched, fel elves , even high elves. Night elves have only nightborne

b) as a night elf sub-race but on the horde: the only logic for this is having night elves on the horde in the form of nightborne opens the way to having High elves as a sub-race on the alliance. High elves are linked to the human world though, not part of the night elf world, even though they have a shared history, they are not 10k year ancients who are night based and know/remember the ancient world, their association would be with the humans, whereas the nightborne's would be with blood elves, no one else would come even close for them.

Having night elves on the horde as nightborne with blood elves could be very cool, it brings elves together in a unique way, but it would be a loss to the night elves who've lacked a high class element to them the highborne can't fill. What would be cool is if they were available on both sides, cos you can have nightborne working with high elves and night elves, much of high elves and night elves are in ruins not rebuilt, the priesthood has no interest in rebuilding, but the civilization needs it, the high elves have no elven home Stormwind just won't fit. Suramar seems the answer for them while the horde nightbornes will be comfortable in Silvermoon

[DeicideUH]

IMO, Nightborne were created as part of a plan to introduce sub-races. They are night elf-like in appearance, but their customs and society is way more alike the blood elves. Story so far has showed Nightborne getting closer to the blood elves.

I'm almost certain they'll be an "alternative race" to blood elves.

In turn, Alliance will probably get high elves.

Those two won't be the only sub-races introduced. We will probably get others, including broken, forest troll and a new kind of Forsaken (elf? Human-like? Dunno).

And I bet sub-races will be just a portion of the new customization options that will be introduced next expansion.

We will find out in one month.

[Beloren]

For starters, for ngihtborne to be truly relevant they'll have to become playable. They made quite a splash in their introduction but they've already faded into the background in 7.3 .... Silgryn tagging along on the horde ship gives some very slight hope, but he seems almost like an afterthought - which atm points to either not playable or playable in some sort of sub race capacity. So the options are as follows:

1. Fully playable as full race:
This isn't inconceivable, we have 3 human races, why not 3 elven ones even if 2 or night elven - they would get improved work, looks, but their unique armor etc should do that. They could be available to both factions. And the argument could go either way. Strong case for the night elven Kaldorei seeing as they greatly venerate them ancestrally and the glorious empire they consider themselves the cpntinuation of, not to mention the night elves have the highborne with them even though much of kaldorei society is more nature focused. I don't expect them to necessarily be integrated with the kaldorei, but they can be allies and close friends, Kaldorei society is very segregated anyway, each discipline pretty much living its own way/world - priests/huntresses don't mix with druids at all except for the big wars, each one sticks to their own affairs and pursuits, and the nightborne would be their own people.

pros: they bring a substantial arcane element to the night elf world. They fit right in with the night, moon and star themes showing the arcane side of the night elves we never saw. IT sort of completes the night elves with a substatnial arcane group as large as the druid group or the priesthood group

Blood elves: Highborne, magic orientated too, whiles the nightborne won't have anything to learn from them as its clear their mastery of magic supercedes any mortal races, still they kind find a kinship and an appreciation. ALso blizz seems to be showing nightborne with blood elves too.

pros: nightborne bring a night elven element to the blood elf alliance, if you were to think of night elves that would fight alongside blood elves, then nightborne/highborne would be your choice. The best way to make it obvious is if the nightborne ears revert to night elven ones after being healed by the arcan'dor. We should see some physical change, because their ears change when they become nightfallen and while the fruit restores them i would expect some reversion to the healthier kaldorei form, but not total, this can shown in the ears.

This also opens up a distinction too: Nightborne on the alliance side could have night elven ears indicative of the group that took the Arcan'dor - face it Thalyssra's actions, choices and behaviour seem so much like Tyrande's, she's like Tyrande done right or arcane version, like a prodigy coming into her own. She's amazing! It could work that those of the resistance that reclaimed the city and ate the fruit team up with the night elves seeing as that's who they worked with most of the time, whiles the blood elves team up with those who we beat in the nighthold, those who followed the echo of Elisande after we defeated her and banded together to help us fight the legion - this is very much like the blood elves of TBC, who U-turned from following Illidan or the legion and did what was right in the end, the blood elves can empathize with that more especially if their punishment is to be denied the fruit, the sunwell can provide them the sustenance they need from its arcane energies and its divine energies preventing htem from turning into nightfallen. This fits well, cos Thalyssra and most of her rebels are like the night elves - they never joined the legion, and fought from the beginning, whiles those who followed elisande, turned against the legion in the end, with only the felborne remaining at the legion's side.

Ofc both factions may not have the nightborne, they may give them to only 1 and give the other faction another race. IF they give the Alliance Nightborne, the horde could get Highmountain or Aldraachi, Ethereal, naga, ogre or High elf - but the last one is more of a sub-race than a new race, and nightborne feel more a sub-race than a full one. If horde the alliance could get High elves but same problem just mentioned, alternatives could be vrykul or Ethereal or a naga sub-race.

2. Nightborne as a Sub-race: Sub-races if they happen seems to be the likely path and an alternative to a full race, less work etc, but likely part of a system now and i suspect is the way we shall see

a) As a night elf sub-race on the alliance: This makes sense and would be the expected course of action, like all sub-races, they'd be their own people with their own identity but have interaction with the originally playable race to the degree the lore provides each group which is unique. For NElves, it's probably a healing of their society, the alliance kaldorei need to embrace their arcane legacy again, and the shal'dorei very much need the balance of nature to fully heal and stabilize them. Both provide the other for each, and both understand each other well. Majority of night elves come from Suramar, and the rebel nightborne who won their city back are very reminiscent of their brothers who fought the legion in the war of the ancients, their actions against the demons would win over even the most annoyed night elves (Tyrande i'm looking at you). Blood elves do have several options for sub-races, including darkfallen san'layn, wretched, fel elves , even high elves. Night elves have only nightborne

b) as a night elf sub-race but on the horde: the only logic for this is having night elves on the horde in the form of nightborne opens the way to having High elves as a sub-race on the alliance. High elves are linked to the human world though, not part of the night elf world, even though they have a shared history, they are not 10k year ancients who are night based and know/remember the ancient world, their association would be with the humans, whereas the nightborne's would be with blood elves, no one else would come even close for them.

Having night elves on the horde as nightborne with blood elves could be very cool, it brings elves together in a unique way, but it would be a loss to the night elves who've lacked a high class element to them the highborne can't fill. What would be cool is if they were available on both sides, cos you can have nightborne working with high elves and night elves, much of high elves and night elves are in ruins not rebuilt, the priesthood has no interest in rebuilding, but the civilization needs it, the high elves have no elven home Stormwind just won't fit. Suramar seems the answer for them while the horde nightbornes will be comfortable in Silvermoon

you also forgot the demon hunters, they'd fit nicely in Suramar, as would the Order of Elune who's most holy temple, the Cathedral has now been cleared. Besides both Tyrande and Illidan call Suramar home, so it would be juicy to have their orders head quartered there even though neither can be there. The DH's could have Felsoul Hold, and the priesthood start rejuvenating the cathedral. Both can have recruits from the nightborne.

The order of Elune needs to stop being night elven exclusive since Elune is a goddess, the nightborne are enamoured with their heritage, Occulus remembers fondly the prayers that use to go up to Elune, all that ceased under the shield, cut off from the Cathedral with the order having left the city with Tyrande to take on Azshara , seeing how Tyrande came to their rescue bringing mothermoon, her light, healing and power to destroy darkness/evil as well as use it to shroud would impress and rekindle devotion in the nightborne.

Similarly, becoming demon hunters and wielding fel to destroy those who nearly destroyed them twice (WotA and Legion expansion) should cause enough to force some nightborne to join the demon hunters, afterall we shouldn't forget that these are night elves and they witnessed their empire being destroyed, Suramar was stormed in the WotA too, even though they successfully defended the city, they lost some of it to the demons before the sundering sunk it right?

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IMO, Nightborne were created as part of a plan to introduce sub-races. They are night elf-like in appearance, but their customs and society is way more alike the blood elves. Story so far has showed Nightborne getting closer to the blood elves.

I'm almost certain they'll be an "alternative race" to blood elves.

In turn, Alliance will probably get high elves.

Those two won't be the only sub-races introduced. We will probably get others, including broken, forest troll and a new kind of Forsaken (elf? Human-like? Dunno).

And I bet sub-races will be just a portion of the new customization options that will be introduced next expansion.

We will find out in one month.

yes, Kaldorei empire culture, is an arcane culture, the highborne one, and this is much more similar to the blood elf culture than it is the most current kaldorei who left that culture.

Whiles ofc I expect some night elves to return to their former lives and rebuild, I think most have moved on enough to now themselves after 10k years and remaining in their paths. New ones I suspect will find more adventure with the nightborne, but it's the blood elves that might be much keener here.

The only thing is I haven't seen any blood elves show real interest in the nightborne, I don't think they like the night elven world, and even though their beef is only with the alliance night elves, not the others, the lore shows they were so bitter from the exile they rejected everything about their former culture, building themselves a new arcane culture they aimed to surpass the first, not replicate it. Got rid of the moon/star fascination and worship, abandoned Elune, abandoned night themes etc, there is a disdain I think for the darker skinned elves, yet on the other hand some of them are very proud of their highborne routes - but then some of them really like humans too.

IT seems only Liandrin seems warm to the nightborne, but showing Silgryn with her is hopeful for some blood elf interaction especially after none was shown with the highborne in 4.0 which was disappointing. Still, having some or showing some connection doesn't mean they'd join, Mace is right that blood elves have nothing to teach the nightborne or that they would benefit from and they can find kinship with the highborne amongst the night elves and Eldre'thalas. So it could go either way.

Personally, i'd like the high elves to be reconciled with the blood elves, and the night elves whole with the nightborne... but alliance fanboys really want high elves.

The solution might be that both get both. Mace is right that night elves tho cool, are quite shabby, and having their Empire wing return is really good for them giving them a high class high magic sub-facet they are missing. I also agree it doesn't need to be integrated, and I also like the idea of blood elves and nightborne getting along, it sort of feels like some measure of co-operation in the elves, and that can be mirrored with high elves and nightborne on the alliance side too - because as much as we can say blood elf culture and nightborne are similar because of the highborne roots, we can't forget high elves are on the alliance too as well as the highborne and the nightborne can get that connection there and supplement that.

I suspect nightborne would be shared by both, with the horde having them likely to compensate for the alliance having high elves. Hmmm... if the nightborne who eat the fruit get restored to their night elven appearance with the arcane enhancements that might actually solve a lot of issues. That way the horde would get the nightborne model presumably the ones that weren't given the fruit as punishment for their role in aiding the legion (even though they turned at the last) with the blood elves taking them in, this allows Nightborne to have to looks, one for the alliance that has their ears night elven and their skin a little lighter and the current models with the upturned ear tips - it makes a lot of sense, I think..hmm

[Radaney]

They should just make them a neutral race like Pandaren where they send an emissary to their faction just like the Pandaren did with Ji Firepaw going to the Horde and and Aysa going to the Alliance.

It is literally the most logical thing to have happen.

Have Oculeth, Valtrois, Silgryn, whoever go Horde or Alliance then keep Thalyssra around to contribute to story stuff.

Silgryn is already talking to Lady Liadrin about the Blood Elves and the Horde anyway.

[Beloren]

And I bet sub-races will be just a portion of the new customization options that will be introduced next expansion.

We will find out in one month.

oh yeah. like those draenei and Liadrin with golden eyes, or night elves with purple/emerald eyes. I'm sure that's going to be some of the customizations we're seeing. Looking at the new draenei model features in 7.3 its clear to see what some of the Draenei are going to get.

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They should just make them a neutral race like Pandaren where they send an emissary to their faction just like the Pandaren did with Ji Firepaw going to the Horde and and Aysa going to the Alliance.

It is literally the most logical thing to have happen.

Have Oculeth, Valtrois, Silgryn, whoever go Horde or Alliance then keep Thalyssra around to contribute to story stuff.

Silgryn is already talking to Lady Liadrin about the Blood Elves and the Horde anyway.

he is, but so is the Moonguard Lothrius - I think those who've been isolated in Suramar are going to be interested in seeing the only elven development that has happened outside the Kaldorei empire, and it's good that blizzard are showing this cos they didn't do so with the highborne in 4.0 - but just because they show interest lets not forget might not mean they will join, they got plenty in the night elf world they'd be keen to rebuild, and Silvermoon to an empire night elf like the highborne/nightborne are while interesting and pleasing is not as grand as any of the empire cities in their hay day.

THe highborne are repairing Dire MAul, they've got tons of territory to reclaim and restore on the broken isles and on western/northern kalimdor, and this is the night based world, rather than inserting yourself in the diurnal's human/orc driven world. But then story development doesn't always follow good story telling or sense, but game direction and what will be popular with the fans the story in wow has been shown to change to accommodate rather than organically tell a great story.

I think his has really affected the quality of the lore in wow, it should have been something that rarely happens, but we find out it drives lore instead

[MechaCThun]

Isn't it obvious?

First Arcanist Thalyssra says: A great player-controlled character once told me: In the Arcane, we are one. The future is ours, and we will see Suramar rebuilt. Together.

[Makorus]

If anything, they will be Horde.

Sigryn constantly hangs out with Liadrin, and the Night Elves have been pretty ass-y to them. Meanwhile, Nightborne and Blood Elves share a bond.

[DeicideUH]

The only thing is I haven't seen any blood elves show real interest in the nightborne, I don't think they like the night elven world, and even though their beef is only with the alliance night elves, not the others, the lore shows they were so bitter from the exile they rejected everything about their former culture, building themselves a new arcane culture they aimed to surpass the first, not replicate it. Got rid of the moon/star fascination and worship, abandoned Elune, abandoned night themes etc, there is a disdain I think for the darker skinned elves, yet on the other hand some of them are very proud of their highborne routes - but then some of them really like humans too.

IT seems only Liandrin seems warm to the nightborne, but showing Silgryn with her is hopeful for some blood elf interaction especially after none was shown with the highborne in 4.0 which was disappointing. Still, having some or showing some connection doesn't mean they'd join, Mace is right that blood elves have nothing to teach the nightborne or that they would benefit from and they can find kinship with the highborne amongst the night elves and Eldre'thalas. So it could go either way.

I'll disagree heavily in this. Blood elf/nightborne relations have been way stronger than night elf/nightborne relations since the Suramar campaign in 7.1.

In the elf camp outside Suramar, talk to the night elf/blood elf/nightborne named NPCs. Many of them have more than one gossip text, so you need to click on them multiple times.

The blood elves show kinship towards the nightborne. The nightborne (and even the Moonguard guy) show a lot more interest towards the blood elves than the night elves.

In the Suramar WQs voiced by Tyrande/Liadrin, the former is way more compassionate towards the nightborne than the later. Tyrande treats the nightborne coldly and suspiciously.

When the three elvens armies (well, 2 + the small high elf representation, lol) are confronted by Elisande, she has nothing but contempt towards night and high elves, but show surprise that the blood elves do not understand her motivations. Notice that, while Elisande is the villain, she's still a nightborne and represents a lot of their mindset.

In 7.2, the first nightborne in the Kirin Tor is revealed to be an apprentice of a blood elf.

In 7.3, we have the Liadrin/Silgryn interaction (plus the fact that Silgryn travels to Exodar with the blood elves).

Personally, i'd like the high elves to be reconciled with the blood elves, and the night elves whole with the nightborne... but alliance fanboys really want high elves.

That would both ignore what many customers want, and to give the Alliance and the Horde what they already have.

While some players may not like the idea of high elves becoming playable in the Alliance, the introduction of sub-races (and better customization) has the potential to include things that would appease for almost everyone.

IMO, Silvermoon and Suramar will have very strong relations coming forward, while the Silver Covenant, upset that Kirin Tor accepted the Horde back, will mostly leave Dalaran and get friendlier with the night elves, particularly the Shen'dralar that have been living in Darnassus for some time. I expect elven delegation on both capitals next expansion.

[Stormspellz]

they will be just another faction that will disappear next expansion

[Mace]

IMO, Silvermoon and Suramar will have very strong relations coming forward, while the Silver Covenant, upset that Kirin Tor accepted the Horde back, will mostly leave Dalaran and get friendlier with the night elves, particularly the Shen'dralar that have been living in Darnassus for some time. I expect elven delegation on both capitals next expansion.

it would be a sad day if the jewel of the night elf empire became a horde city - if you take the nightborne and suramar away from the alliance night elves and their ancestral heritage it begs the question when are you going to improve them? They looked so rag tag in 7.1, and the kaldorei empire and Suramar is their ancestral home and a part of their heritage, the high civilization part. An aspect that they've sorely missed and one the high elves certainly won't give them.

Whiles I agree that 7.1 onwards has shown more blood elf interaction, and hints at a nightborne/blood elf alliance lets not forget 7.0 and the heavier focus earlier on was all night elven, and lets not forget the nightborne are supposed to be "the night elf sub race" on the horde (if that's what happens).

The night elves need an active connection and route to their empire, and they need Suramar to boost their forutnes, appeal and all round look I think. They don't ahve to become one people though its not a problem if they do, they could play active and affirming roles in each others lives with a few bumps too.

A good solution i think would be to have an exile group of nightborne join the horde just like you have the exiled high elves on the alliance, that way you have high elves without a home and a much smaller faction of their race on the alliance with the majority of them and the home city on the horde, and the converse for the nightborne. A small exile group on the horde while the majority of their people and their home city on the alliance with their highborne and kaldorei kin. And lets not forget the two groups don't have to look identical either. While high elves can have blue eyes distinguishing them from blood elves (other distinctions can be added), alliance nightborne could have night elven ears, the result of the arcan'dor fruit healing while the horde nightborne retain the existing ears. The story parts are already there, because if the exiles are denied the arcan'dor fruit, the sunwell can be what prevents them from withering without the nightwell, and the reason they are denied is because they are the group that fought alongside Elisande until she switched sides - the wounds caused by their unwavering loyalty to her and the suffering they inflicted made reconciling them together in the reclaimed Suramar too much.

Thalyssra ruled, the blood elves tried to make a case for them understanding their own similar issue during the TBC era, but in a move echoing the harshness of highborne exile under the druids and drudging up memories of unwavering night elven righteousness when Thalyssra says no, causes a separation with the exiles leaving to go stay with the Blood elves much in the same way the high elves stay with the humans and Suramar and the remaining nightborne aligning with the night elves.

It's also worth noting, it doesn't have to be an angry schism either, there could still be friendship across lines, just like you get between horde and alliance pandaren and even some high elves and blood elves (Vereesa for all her hate of the blood elves and horde works with and really seems to like some blood elves if you play the hunter artifact weapon quests). But that is a perfect example of not letting something you see lead you to believe things have changed, while it seemed Vereesa was getting on with blood elves then, later she was shown to be very much angry with them and not liking night elves at all either. Likewise one shouldn't assume some nightborne/blood elf interactions are an indication the whole race is going that way, it really is token compared to what was shown in 7.0 with the night elves but also bare in mind is also necessary because until that point they had shown NO interaction between the night elves of the broken isles and the horde as a faction, especially the nightborne elves, so it was necessary to show something.

[DeicideUH]

it would be a sad day if the jewel of the night elf empire became a horde city - if you take the nightborne and suramar away from the alliance night elves and their ancestral heritage it begs the question when are you going to improve them? They looked so rag tag in 7.1, and the kaldorei empire and Suramar is their ancestral home and a part of their heritage, the high civilization part. An aspect that they've sorely missed and one the high elves certainly won't give them.

Whiles I agree that 7.1 onwards has shown more blood elf interaction, and hints at a nightborne/blood elf alliance lets not forget 7.0 and the heavier focus earlier on was all night elven, and lets not forget the nightborne are supposed to be "the night elf sub race" on the horde (if that's what happens).

The night elves need an active connection and route to their empire, and they need Suramar to boost their forutnes, appeal and all round look I think. They don't ahve to become one people though its not a problem if they do, they could play active and affirming roles in each others lives with a few bumps too.

A good solution i think would be to have an exile group of nightborne join the horde just like you have the exiled high elves on the alliance, that way you have high elves without a home and a much smaller faction of their race on the alliance with the majority of them and the home city on the horde, and the converse for the nightborne. A small exile group on the horde while the majority of their people and their home city on the alliance with their highborne and kaldorei kin. And lets not forget the two groups don't have to look identical either. While high elves can have blue eyes distinguishing them from blood elves (other distinctions can be added), alliance nightborne could have night elven ears, the result of the arcan'dor fruit healing while the horde nightborne retain the existing ears. The story parts are already there, because if the exiles are denied the arcan'dor fruit, the sunwell can be what prevents them from withering without the nightwell, and the reason they are denied is because they are the group that fought alongside Elisande until she switched sides - the wounds caused by their unwavering loyalty to her and the suffering they inflicted made reconciling them together in the reclaimed Suramar too much.

Thalyssra ruled, the blood elves tried to make a case for them understanding their own similar issue during the TBC era, but in a move echoing the harshness of highborne exile under the druids and drudging up memories of unwavering night elven righteousness when Thalyssra says no, causes a separation with the exiles leaving to go stay with the Blood elves much in the same way the high elves stay with the humans and Suramar and the remaining nightborne aligning with the night elves.

It's also worth noting, it doesn't have to be an angry schism either, there could still be friendship across lines, just like you get between horde and alliance pandaren and even some high elves and blood elves (Vereesa for all her hate of the blood elves and horde works with and really seems to like some blood elves if you play the hunter artifact weapon quests). But that is a perfect example of not letting something you see lead you to believe things have changed, while it seemed Vereesa was getting on with blood elves then, later she was shown to be very much angry with them and not liking night elves at all either. Likewise one shouldn't assume some nightborne/blood elf interactions are an indication the whole race is going that way, it really is token compared to what was shown in 7.0 with the night elves but also bare in mind is also necessary because until that point they had shown NO interaction between the night elves of the broken isles and the horde as a faction, especially the nightborne elves, so it was necessary to show something.

Details can change, I'm just predicting an overall scenario.

Maybe Suramar stays neutral, but a group of Nightborne join the Horde.
Maybe Suramar joins the Horde, but in a neutral-ish way with no ill feelings towards the Alliance (kinda like the Draenei in the Alliance).

What I'm (almost) sure of is that nightborne will be playable in the Horde. I won't wager on details beyond that, but I'm very skeptical of nightborne being playable on both factions.

[Teri]

I hope the "Thalyssra/Silgryn/Arcandor" Nightborne join the horde.

Basicly the fruit cured them from the nightwell, so they can travel the world.

Now we know Suramar npcs are generally feeding on Arcwine, gamewise they won't instantly be removed after the nightwell was shut down (removing the eye of aman'thul)

Blizz won't just turn a whole city into Withered for gameplay reasons/faction world quests will likely even stay after many expansions, or else nightfallen story/rep would be a 1 expansion ordeal.

Details can change, I'm just predicting an overall scenario.

Maybe Suramar stays neutral, but a group of Nightborne join the Horde.
Maybe Suramar joins the Horde, but in a neutral-ish way with no ill feelings towards the Alliance (kinda like the Draenei in the Alliance).

What I'm (almost) sure of is that nightborne will be playable in the Horde. I won't wager on details beyond that, but I'm very skeptical of nightborne being playable on both factions.

Basicly could maybe have Lady Lunastre leading Suramar city in lore, while Thalyssra settles somewhere in horde lands (would be awesome reason to modernize Silvermoon/Quel'thalas, add a nightborne district)

The player can represent a nightborne cured with Arcandor fruit, and as we know there's kids, so players of multiple ages can exist.

I don't think a new city/district would need an arcandor tree of it's own, as it seems a 1 fruit = cured, type of thing.

[DeicideUH]

I hope the "Thalyssra/Silgryn/Arcandor" Nightborne join the horde.

Basicly the fruit cured them from the nightwell, so they can travel the world.

Now we know Suramar npcs are generally feeding on Arcwine, gamewise they won't instantly be removed after the nightwell was shut down (removing the eye of aman'thul)

Blizz won't just turn a whole city into Withered for gameplay reasons/faction world quests will likely even stay after many expansions, or else nightfallen story/rep would be a 1 expansion ordeal.

Dunno if I understood right what you meant to say, so I may sound confusing here, but the arcwine needs the nightwell to be made, and the Nightwell is gone. The point of the Suramar campaign is that the Arcandor fruit is eventually going to free all nightborne. For now, the ones who are not freed from addiction are feeding from whatever arcwine they still have, plus other founts of mana.

(What if... that's another reason the nightborne will get closer to the blood elves? The Sunwell could help them somehow while their entire population is not freed from addiction. The Arcandor can only produce so much fruit at a time).

Basicly could maybe have Lady Lunastre leading Suramar city in lore, while Thalyssra settles somewhere in horde lands (would be awesome reason to modernize Silvermoon/Quel'thalas, add a nightborne district)

I'm almost certain Thalyssra will be the leader. But there's a lot of politics within Suramar, and Lunastre will probably be her main supporter.
(The politics in Suramar may also bring a sinister side of them to the forefront. Talyssra is a good person, humbled by her experience, but not all nightborne nobles will be like her. Things may get out of hand sometimes...)

The player can represent a nightborne cured with Arcandor fruit, and as we know there's kids, so players of multiple ages can exist.~

Playable nightborne will probably be cured by fruit, yes. I'd guess we start as representatives sent to Quel'thalas to act on behalf of Suramar.

I don't think a new city/district would need an arcandor tree of it's own, as it seems a 1 fruit = cured, type of thing.

Yes, the Arcandor is one of a kind, and the cure is (for now) definitive, but there's only so much fruit at a time, it will take a while to cure everyone. Is there even other seeds? More may grow in the future, but they need all that care to grow stable and not explode, horribly mutating everything in the vicinity.

[Beloren]

I hope the "Thalyssra/Silgryn/Arcandor" Nightborne join the horde.

Basicly the fruit cured them from the nightwell, so they can travel the world.

Now we know Suramar npcs are generally feeding on Arcwine, gamewise they won't instantly be removed after the nightwell was shut down (removing the eye of aman'thul)

Blizz won't just turn a whole city into Withered for gameplay reasons/faction world quests will likely even stay after many expansions, or else nightfallen story/rep would be a 1 expansion ordeal.

I would have them join the alliance, they are more alliance and night elfy in nature - their disgust at sucking mana from living things, they even regard filtering mana from leylines and magical items as bottomfeeding, something terrible they've been reduced to, which is very night elfy arrogant and self righteous. Occulus reminisces about prayers to Elune, Thalyssra willingly drains the nightwell in show of wisdom and true mastery over magic that is reminiscent of the alliance night elves - showing a greater strength of character to give up something for the good of your people proving you master it and not it you (which is why after displaying such character and wisdom it makes the night elven people, especially the nightborne actually now the most worthy to wield great power - because they can let it go, and they now fully understand the need to operate in balance, correcting the mistake they made as highborne which led to ruin). They also display a humility (despite their confident near arrogant demeanor) that is also night elven ( I guess they are night elven but what I mean this fits with the alliance, it could work in the horde but it makes the Thalyssra group the more suited choice for the alliance), Valtrois carries a charming arrogance reminiscent to illidan in the Well of Eternity instance and WotA novels without any of the evil stuff.

Meanwhile the Elisande group are better suited to the horde, both in the similarities to the blood elves as having fought on the wrong side but eventually turned around. They also have the cocky arrogant confidence more in mesh with the horde with their talk of ruling the world etc whereas Thalyssra would see the nightborne return as defenders not conquerors. And while the Elisande group eventually joined the fight after her defeat, and without her/them we'd never have beaten Gul'dan or freed Illidan or acquired the Eye of Aman'thul etc etc, they remain the part of the Nightborne that are most like the blood elves. The blood elves fell but got redeemed, Thalyssra's group never compromised which is like the night elves who never compromised, Elisande's group fell but got redeemed following the orcs, blood elf and forsaken stories.

Still its' just comparisons and likeness. Silgryn seems to like the blood elves, and so does Lothrius, maybe we might see all the nightborne and the moonguard join the horde, and maybe they all get the fruit anyway. As a sub-race that would probably mean their ears get back the night elven tip making it clear to all that nightborne are night elves on the horde side while high elves are on the alliance. or maybe Thalyssra and the Suramar nightborne actually get back their night elven appearances and the Suramar Shal'dorei look like night elves while the exiles who don't get the fruit retain the current nightborne appearance making the horde nightborne look different.

They have options and I like some of the ones that have shown up here. I use to be against the nightborne joining the horde, but I think i'd like it as well. I'm still not sure if another elven race on the horde is really a good idea, especially one so alliancey as the nightborne, with many preferring something like Ogres, Vrykul, Naga or Aldraachi more traditionally war like more horde like especially after getting too many alliancey/advanced races (blood elves, goblins, pandas) the horde needs a more martial race in its ranks. They don't necessarily have to be primitive, but they need to be more traditionally horde like before they lose their identity completely. I also like that the blood elves are like the only posh race in stark contrast tot he rest of the horde, I have mixed fieelings of adding another - I would be against it as a full fledged race, but I might be willing to accept a small group. Naga would be ideal tbh, especially naga that have undergone some sort of transformation akin to mermaids, bi-pedal on land but mermaid like in water - (maybe Azshara worked a spell to restore them to their elven form) but been cut off from the Well that made them night elves, they end up more like blood elves with some fish/snake features like part of their skin has scale patches or their hair is coral texture boasting that vibrant colour variation you see in sea corals, but they are now white skinned and half fish when in water, ears are blood/high elven angle.

I would accept them wholeheartedly as small group linking up with the blood elves, they feel more organic to the blood elves than the nightborne, especially seeing that the naga did work with the blood elves under Illidan, and remember the blood elves come from the palace highborne of Zin'Azshari which the naga also do. Its easy to see that not all naga would adore or blindly follow Queen Azshara and some would seek reconnection with their kin and follow Lady Vashj to the Blood elves. It also seems that both night elves and nightborne would not want anything to do with them either, I can't see Thalyssra wanting to cooperate, nor Tyrande, but I can see the blood elves willing too.

Basicly could maybe have Lady Lunastre leading Suramar city in lore, while Thalyssra settles somewhere in horde lands (would be awesome reason to modernize Silvermoon/Quel'thalas, add a nightborne district)

The player can represent a nightborne cured with Arcandor fruit, and as we know there's kids, so players of multiple ages can exist.

I don't think a new city/district would need an arcandor tree of it's own, as it seems a 1 fruit = cured, type of thing.

I like the idea too, though I find it hard to see Thalyssra leaving Suramar. Still I like it, I don't know how we would have a nightborne section in Silvermoon, they would need an arcan'dor tree, but then the idea of the sunwell replacing the arcandor if they go with the exile path instead also works. With this path, yes, they'd need a tree in Silvermoon,feels night elfy but arcane version of the night elves - which is what the nightborne are - brining a bit of night elf to the blood elves - this is what I like the idea of, blood elves and night elves working together even though it's not the Hyjal Kalimdor night elves - it gives a hope of a joint elven future - though it would need to have its alliance counterpart, which the broken isles is suited for as the nightborne/night elves there kinda make it night elf territory - it is afterall Suramar country and this is where most alliance night elves came from /were born so it makes sense they go to the alliance.

Forging a new home in Silvermoon could work. the ruined part could have a nightborne district like Stormwind has dwarven distrcts, I had hoped the ruined half of silvermoon would have the High elves in, returned home, but that doesn't have to stop a nightborne district existing somewhere.

but I wonder how the blood elves will feel. Only Liadrin seems affectionate to the nightborne, and that maybe because she is apaldin and light wielder by nature, the others don't seem to care or are disdainful of the night kind of elves whether arcane or nature based even though historically their beef is only with the northern kalimdro ones and not the shen'dralar highborne nor the nightborne or broken isle night elves, still the high elves did develop a disdain for all things night based when they rejected their people for exiling them, even changing to diurnal to get as far away from them - that sentiment and disdain may still linger, and only priest types/high elf types willing to overlook it or embrace it.

interesting.

[Mace]

Details can change, I'm just predicting an overall scenario.

Maybe Suramar stays neutral, but a group of Nightborne join the Horde.
Maybe Suramar joins the Horde, but in a neutral-ish way with no ill feelings towards the Alliance (kinda like the Draenei in the Alliance).

What I'm (almost) sure of is that nightborne will be playable in the Horde. I won't wager on details beyond that, but I'm very skeptical of nightborne being playable on both factions.

you may be right, I still would like to see nightborne with the night elves at the very least. It feels right. I view Silgryn with Liadrin as a night elf with a blood elf - because the broken isle night elven groups are the only ones that can get along with the blood elves and we've craved more blood elf/night elf interaction so its nice to be able to see them together but not to the inclusion of the entire group with the horde at the expense of the night elves again.

The night elves really need the nightborne from a story, lore and gaming point of view. Night elves have become very stale and monotonous, little to no story momentum to propel them or galvanise them to action or to the standards we saw in WC3, the return of Suramar, the Legion, the Temple of Elune (Cathedral of Eternal Night), the reuniting with people they knew thought dead, the display of courage and resolve against the evil of the demon by arcane wielding night elf kin, the wisdom and mastery over magic to be able to surrender the nightwell, the return of a piece of their home they loved so much with the hope of a much brighter dawn free of the legion and free of arcane addiction not to mention the ramifications of the discovery of the legion's crusade, search for Azeroth the mere fact that it wasn't the elves' magic that was their main goal nor was it their actions that started the legion's search for Azeroth (they'd been looking long before the night elf race was born) ...

all these things, are exactly the sort of catalyst the night elves need. And as I mentioned before, the nightbone give very much needed alternate side to the night elves. An arcane, high class and fancy side they really do need, it is the Kaldorei empire, and i don't think that shoould return in a good way and not have anything to do with the night elves. it should be a part of their world - it doesn't have to mean the night elves all go arcane, but it definitely means that their world has that part of it that is not given to evil and represnts the good part of the kaldorei empire in as much as the naga represent what was evil about it.

These needs to be in the night elf world primarily. It's okay for splinter group of nightborne to join the horde or be part of the blood elf world, but the main thrust of the nightborne, the kaldorei empire etc, that is needed to remain in the night elf world and not transition to the blood elf one which really is its counterpart on the horde side. It makes no sense to then take Suramar and all the nightborne over to the horde as well when there is a gaping hole and need for it amongst the night elves.

I'm even fine with the nightborne not been playable on the alliance, but being linked and involved with the night elves and the night elf world primarily while a small group can go off and help the horde - the danger ofc is if you make them only playable on the horde then people's perception might shift to them being a horde group only when you want the vast majority of them to be night elven based. You'd have to write it similar to how the trolls are written. When you meet most trolls in the world and you meet a lot, they are hostile, except the darkspears who are with the horde. Similarly but not identially, when dealing with the nightborne most of it should be happening and involved in night elf affairs showing the arcane side of the night elves, with only a piece of that accessible to the horde via the splinter group or small group that chose to spend time with them. That way the night elves get part of their shiny former lives back via the nightborne and Suramar in a good way, and the horde can get some night elf presence on their side via the nightborne.

Ofc the most effective and emphatic way is to ensure nightborne are also playable on the alliance alongside the night elves, but it's not ultimately necessary if you make sure nightborne representation in lore remains night elven centred/based and not blood elven - but i suspect this may not happen unless you actively make them playable on the alliance, cos any dev can come later and just cahnge the narrative and not think much of it because the players are use to nightborne on the horde.

Another alternative exists though, while the nightborne remain neutral or horde, the cure for the arcan'dor, return of suramar and revelation of the legion's true motives galvanises the highborne wing of the night elves to return to their former esteem. Noble, untained, and 100% magical. Restoring much lost knowledge or shared advancement by reconnecting with the nightborne. This way the night elves get their restoration back.

Still an even better way is simply to have the nightborne of the city be healed to their night elven forms, so you have to appearance for the shal'dorei, the ones of Suramar now look like they once did, like night elves (but with their own stannce/idle animation pose) while the ones that join the blood elves retain the pre-7.4 appearance. having the nightborne look more night elven (as if it isn't enough already) by something as small as their ears returning to their original form will be enough for players to correctly regard them as night elven.

[DeicideUH]

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I'll disagree heavily here.
The night elves have broken up with their past. They've since evolved into something completely different from what they once were. All that past of arcane and nobility has been denied for 10,000 years, they moved on and started a newer society based on nature. Recently, they've made amends with the past and accepted the practice of the arcane, but nature is still the primary power they focus on, and everything else from the ancient highborne has been rejected.

The blood elves, on the other hand, not only have kept highborne customs alive, they actively tried to strengthen then since the corruption of the Sunwell and the arcane magic ordeal.

When the nightborne emerge into the world, they see the blood elves as the closer to them, and the night elves feel almost alien (the NPCs' gossip in Suramar shows that very well. They are surprised how "primitive" the night elves seem to be). Even the Moonguard guy shows more interest in the libraries of Silvermoon than on his night elven brethren!

That connection with the arcane that you mention could be explored throught the already existing Shen'dralar (they do need attention), throught the high elves getting closer to the Kaldorei and, maybe, throught the Moonguard joining Darnassus (thought, as said above, even they seem more interested in the blood elves).

That said, I'd like small details like a nightborne embassador on Darnassus. Just because Suramar (seemingly) joins the Horde doesn't mean it needs to cut diplomatic ties to the night elves. Actually, I'd love an "arcane district" in Darnassus, in which we get the Shen'dralar, high elves, Moonguard and maybe a few nightborne representatives).

[Beloren]

I'll disagree heavily here.
The night elves have broken up with their past. They've since evolved into something completely different from what they once were. All that past of arcane and nobility has been denied for 10,000 years, they moved on and started a newer society based on nature. Recently, they've made amends with the past and accepted the practice of the arcane, but nature is still the primary power they focus on, and everything else from the ancient highborne has been rejected.

but how can that be true enough for anyone to reject alliance night elves and nightborne or other arcane night elves like the moonguard getting along? Especially when we all know the alliance night elves are reconnecting with their past.. that's what 4.0 showed at least and the history the alliance night elves have with the broken isle night elves incl the nightborne is different and actually better than the one they had with the highborne (shen'dralar or zin'azshari highborne who became high elves or naga). The Suramar night elves didn't call the legion and in fact fought with the night elves even though part of the city led by Elisande chose not to follow Tyrande's call to march to Zin'Azshari, but they did behave much better than the shen'dralar and while the high elves did rebel against the queen, part of their problem was they were part of the palace group that acutally brought the demons in in the first place and later that whole fiasco that led to the exile.

If the night elves can reconcile with the shen'dralar I don't think the Moonguard or the nightborne will be problematic, no the Farondis highborne ghosts who were the first rebels of the Queen while the likes of Ravencrest were still in denial, and theycertainly don't have beef with the Val'sharah night elves some of whom now make Suramar their home and have come under Thalyssra's wings. Night elves are no longer 0 arcane policy, a druid is the one that frees the nightborne from addiction. What's clear is the night elves have entered a new phase, 0 arcane usage makes no sense so they've dropped it, they understand the causes behind the original addiction and have solved it - the lore shows us there is no reason why night elves have to be angsty over magic usage and 7.0 shows them actively trying to help the nightborne while 4.0 showed uthem getting many many recruits flocking to study magic.

what's clear is that night elven attitudes have been changing, some night elves embrace the arcane, all the highborne lot and all the nightborne lot, - we don't see druids or priests switching to mages, it seems to be those who use to be mages 10k years ago and new/younger night elves.
there society has changed and for the first time in 10,000 years is actually showing healing from the scars of the wotA.

And lets not forget the blood elves did make a new arcane culture, it's not the kaldorei empire culture, we cannot ignore the fact that the Highborne amongst the night elves, the ones of Eldre'thalas still carry on the same culture as the nightborne, surely they'll find much more enthusiastic welcome amongst them than they would the blood elves who just don't seem to like dark skinned elves. [personally I wouldn't particularly want them witht he blood elves, i'm still leaning towards the dark skinned night based elves keeping to themselves

[DeicideUH]

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Accepting the arcane is different from accepting the highborne culture of old. Shen'dralar (and high elves, maybe, in the future) are different from the nightborne in the sense that they are pariahs and exiles without their own land. They tried to find sources of power and failed, and they come to the night elves humbled. They literally accepted be integrated into the darnassian society, and they did so out of necessity.

Yes, the kaldorei have accepted the arcane practices back, but their culture does not revolve around it. It's a very different setup from nightborne and blood elves, which embrace the arcane and use it regularly in their daily lives. Just because Darnassus allows mages now does not mean the night elves do not keep careful watch over them.

Suramar, in contrast, is a sovereign nation, just as is Silvermoon. And, as a nation, still powerful and proud, they can choose their allies not out of necessity, but affinity. Thus, allying themselves with the blood elves makes a lot more sense than trying to reconcile with the Kaldorei, which they see as primitive (and who, in turn, do not trust them).

I also need to point out that Valewalker Farondin is not a druid. His help with the Arcan'dor does not mean the nightborne owe anything to the darnassian night elves (besides gratitude for helping freeing Suramar, of course, but in that case the blood elves were just as helpful).