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  1. #1

    Post Demons after Legion?

    Demons have always been a major part of Warcraft. Two classes center around their demonic energies. In the First War they were central for the Invasion and the entire story we know. Demons were the cause of the Third War, the creation of the Scourge. They were major and serious enemies throughout the world in Classic WoW. Demons unaffiliated with the Legion and with the Legion were present in the story through many expansions including even Wrath (although dropped without ending). Three Horde races exist as they are now because of the actions of demons.

    In Legion, the Legion was portrayed as buffoons. Always failing. They kill the two faction leaders in a cutscene, but players never actually experienced failure in their quests/gameplay. Even KJ admits they're failures then he dies rather anticlimactically despite being a looming threat in the story forever. Remember when Illidan cowered at his presence in Outland and accepted his quest in WCIII?

    Do they disappear from the story in totality? Or do they continue as vague threats, corrupting influences or indifferent/arbitrary powers such as the Daedra from the elder scrolls? The Daedra are a far better written demonic force.

    The Burning Crusade is over, but demons will always be. If blizzard ignores them then lol

  2. #2
    they will continue to exist. some minor lords will likely attempt to keep control of a few scores of demons, others will go their own way.

    some of them are enslaved, and don't want to do the things the legion makes them do, they'll probably go back to whatever is left of their home.

  3. #3
    I just want to see jaraxxus deliver the "Why are we still here ? Just to suffer ?" speech.

    Other than that, lock those pieces of shit in camps like we did to orcs. And shoot any demonic thrall-wannabes.

  4. #4
    Ok?.............. I mean what we have to discuss? Of course there will still be bad demons. It's like the undead after Lich King. As long as you have (bad) people dabbling in demonic/undead magic, demon and undead will stay relevant.
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  5. #5
    in the end the legion have always been a fuckup, they have failed 3 times invading azeroth, the fucked up bad with the lich king, and we failed gameplay wise on the first attack on the broken shore, that is what the whole beginning of legion was about, to get stronger and attack once again

  6. #6
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Well, arguably the loss of Varian and Vol'jin at the Broken Shore was a big coup for the Legion, throwing the defenders of Azeroth into disarray until the forming of the Class Orders to take the fight to the Legion proper. I know that many people charge the Legion with incompetence for losing to us, but I don't really think the story could be told another way. If I we lost to the Legion there would be a raft of complaints - likely far more than there are currently about the Legion being the losers. Looking at the Illidan/Xe'ra arc and the number of people who took umbrage to Xe'ra calling us out for killing Illidan alone seems like an early indicator that a loss during the finale of an expansion would be a no-sell (that's not all that's wrong with the Xe'ra story-arc, of course; but the idea that the PC's could possibly have acted in the wrong is what a lot of people immediately seized on in their complaints).

    The Legion had to lose - just like the Lich King, Deathwing, and all the other villains in WoW have to. That they had a brief and terrible victory over the Horde and the Alliance at the Broken Shore is a pretty big deal. That's more than the Lich King had during Classic and WotLK - his initial attack on Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdoms was rebuffed in full and his every gambit thereafter was ultimately and he himself dethroned during the last content patch. Same with Lei Shen, Garrosh, and Illidan/Kil'jaeden back in TBC.
    "A blinding flash, a moment of understanding. You are in an empty store room, tied to a chair. There are others, but they are hooded and limp. You recall this living nightmare, you take comfort in its familiar pain. You smell fermentation and can hear a dull, unending beeping. Someone shouts in a language you do not know. You love your family. YOU. LOVE. THEM. Welcome to Red Lobster. Come see what’s fresh. Today." - A Word From Our Sponsor, "Welcome to Night Vale"

  7. #7
    Lots of big-name demons didn't die in the Twisting Nether (Tichondrius, Hakkar the Houndmaster, Mannoroth, etc) so we definitely haven't seen the last of the Legion's remnants.

    Theoretically, anyway. It really depends on if Blizzard remembers they still exist.
    Born to lose and destined to fail.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Well, arguably the loss of Varian and Vol'jin at the Broken Shore was a big coup for the Legion, throwing the defenders of Azeroth into disarray until the forming of the Class Orders to take the fight to the Legion proper. I know that many people charge the Legion with incompetence for losing to us, but I don't really think the story could be told another way. If I we lost to the Legion there would be a raft of complaints - likely far more than there are currently about the Legion being the losers. Looking at the Illidan/Xe'ra arc and the number of people who took umbrage to Xe'ra calling us out for killing Illidan alone seems like an early indicator that a loss during the finale of an expansion would be a no-sell (that's not all that's wrong with the Xe'ra story-arc, of course; but the idea that the PC's could possibly have acted in the wrong is what a lot of people immediately seized on in their complaints).

    The Legion had to lose - just like the Lich King, Deathwing, and all the other villains in WoW have to. That they had a brief and terrible victory over the Horde and the Alliance at the Broken Shore is a pretty big deal. That's more than the Lich King had during Classic and WotLK - his initial attack on Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdoms was rebuffed in full and his every gambit thereafter was ultimately and he himself dethroned during the last content patch. Same with Lei Shen, Garrosh, and Illidan/Kil'jaeden back in TBC.
    Long story short, just like real life politicians hire people to write their speeches, warcraft villains should hire someone from the outside to formulate their world domination plans. Because so far all villains were dumb, incompetent twats.

  9. #9
    Elemental Lord Wildberry's Avatar
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    I think the biggest complaint with Xe'ra was the "Child of Light and Shadow" bit. Which was atrocious.

    Sadly, though, MMOs really aren't the proper format to have threatening villains. WCIII's Scourge toppled Lordaeron, Quel'thalas, Dalaran, the Nerubian Empire, etc. WoW's Scourge did nothing in comparison to that (Although they were fortunate enough to ride that train. Something Blizzard has been unable to do with the Legion).

  10. #10
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    Long story short, just like real life politicians hire people to write their speeches, warcraft villains should hire someone from the outside to formulate their world domination plans. Because so far all villains were dumb, incompetent twats.
    I don't know if I would go that far. Arthas, for example, actually succeeded in his plan to lure the greatest heroes and champions to his seat of power, slay them, and proceed to raise them up as champions of the Scourge. Had it not been for a literal deus ex machina in the form of the Light freeing Tirion from imprisonment he would've been victorious. Deathwing too, and his Old God masters, had a pretty successful gambit going on during the Cataclysm - distract the Horde and Alliance with political antics and go on to bring about the Hour of Twilight almost completely unopposed. It took time-travel shenanigans and 11th hour pseudo-messianic goings-on by Thrall to stop that particular doomsday from happening.

    The Legion, well, there you do kind of have me. I can think of 101 ways they could've used their essentially endless and immortal army to take over Azeroth without much effort. I think being converted into a demon might cause a given entity's ability to calmly and coldly calculate to be compromised - Kil'jaeden is Sargeras' spymaster and strategist-in-chief, but all his plans seem to rely on the strategies that have been countered on Azeroth time and time again. It's also possible that Azerothians are simply empowered above and beyond the Legion's ability to match. An infinite army of demon mooks isn't much of an asset when every single defender they're set against is capable of slaughtering them in droves. The Legion for all its might may just be outclassed in every way. The biggest threats to Azeroth have, thus far, always been Azerothian in origin (Arthas, Deathwing, Garrosh, etc.)
    "A blinding flash, a moment of understanding. You are in an empty store room, tied to a chair. There are others, but they are hooded and limp. You recall this living nightmare, you take comfort in its familiar pain. You smell fermentation and can hear a dull, unending beeping. Someone shouts in a language you do not know. You love your family. YOU. LOVE. THEM. Welcome to Red Lobster. Come see what’s fresh. Today." - A Word From Our Sponsor, "Welcome to Night Vale"

  11. #11
    The Insane Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    Some will disperse, some will try to continue on the crusade, some will still wipe out planets , some will try to repent to save their skin, some will be genuine, some will continue to be chaotic and some will join the void.
    Quote Originally Posted by Excellion View Post
    You're right...least Hitler didn't try to bring back the people he killed from the dead to do his bidding.

  12. #12
    Nobody made the obvious "there must always be a Sargeras" joke, color me surprised.

    I think Blizzard should bring Ulthalesh into the spotlight.

  13. #13
    I actually feel that a great portion of Demons will join the Void. Without an actual leader, the demons will revert back to their chaotic and destructive nature, and Void offer plenty of those. There're always worlds to corrupt/destroy.

    The Dreadlords will probably play a minor role in an Void expansion since they always had connection to Old God. To serve as bosses so we can learn from them the Void's plan, similar to how Sargeras learnt about Void eons ago. Conveniently, majority of Dreadlord didn't die in Twisting Nether this expansion, perhaps this really is what Blizzard is planning.

  14. #14
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nothingsjim View Post
    I actually feel that a great portion of Demons will join the Void. Without an actual leader, the demons will revert back to their chaotic and destructive nature, and Void offer plenty of those. There're always worlds to corrupt/destroy.

    The Dreadlords will probably play a minor role in an Void expansion since they always had connection to Old God. To serve as bosses so we can learn from them the Void's plan, similar to how Sargeras learnt about Void eons ago. Conveniently, majority of Dreadlord didn't die in Twisting Nether this expansion, perhaps this really is what Blizzard is planning.
    Given the examples of Lothraxian and Ulthalesh I'd actually like to see the Nathrezim strike out on their own absent control from the Legion or the Void. The Nathrezim have always fascinated me and the idea that some of their number would actually oppose Sargeras or strike out on their own and become Lightforged has only enhanced that fascination - perhaps they could see what service to the Legion has cost them (their homeworld) and go on to seek peace with former enemies like the Alliance and Horde of Azeroth.
    "A blinding flash, a moment of understanding. You are in an empty store room, tied to a chair. There are others, but they are hooded and limp. You recall this living nightmare, you take comfort in its familiar pain. You smell fermentation and can hear a dull, unending beeping. Someone shouts in a language you do not know. You love your family. YOU. LOVE. THEM. Welcome to Red Lobster. Come see what’s fresh. Today." - A Word From Our Sponsor, "Welcome to Night Vale"

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    I don't know if I would go that far. Arthas, for example, actually succeeded in his plan to lure the greatest heroes and champions to his seat of power, slay them, and proceed to raise them up as champions of the Scourge. Had it not been for a literal deus ex machina in the form of the Light freeing Tirion from imprisonment he would've been victorious. Deathwing too, and his Old God masters, had a pretty successful gambit going on during the Cataclysm - distract the Horde and Alliance with political antics and go on to bring about the Hour of Twilight almost completely unopposed. It took time-travel shenanigans and 11th hour pseudo-messianic goings-on by Thrall to stop that particular doomsday from happening.

    The Legion, well, there you do kind of have me. I can think of 101 ways they could've used their essentially endless and immortal army to take over Azeroth without much effort. I think being converted into a demon might cause a given entity's ability to calmly and coldly calculate to be compromised - Kil'jaeden is Sargeras' spymaster and strategist-in-chief, but all his plans seem to rely on the strategies that have been countered on Azeroth time and time again. It's also possible that Azerothians are simply empowered above and beyond the Legion's ability to match. An infinite army of demon mooks isn't much of an asset when every single defender they're set against is capable of slaughtering them in droves. The Legion for all its might may just be outclassed in every way. The biggest threats to Azeroth have, thus far, always been Azerothian in origin (Arthas, Deathwing, Garrosh, etc.)
    But that the core issue, blizzard always blows all villains out of proportion, about how terrible they are and how THIS TIME it surely is the end of world. And they always suck. They are always just a bunch of screaming retards, yelling about promised power, mortal shaming and saying other dumb shit. And they fail so miserably they could as well be characters in gag manga who always end up with explosive ending just to come back in next chapter.

    Killing king anime and...whatever that other guy was during broken shore really doesn't do anything. Its so boring and generic. Its like killing mentor of main character...oh just like killing velen in wod. Noone cares. Ain't nobody buying what they selling. Giving legion pity victory surely didn't set them up as great villains.
    Especially given a string of hilarious defeats that followed that hollow victory. Legion is outright pathetic, and i feel like if they had any form of personality most of people would feel more sympathy to them than to protagonists.

    All warcraft villains lack any form of charisma, of any interesting motivation. They never have goals other than just killing "innocents". And even then, they just process 5000kg of innocents a day and call it a quits.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Emilqt View Post
    in the end the legion have always been a fuckup, they have failed 3 times invading azeroth, the fucked up bad with the lich king, and we failed gameplay wise on the first attack on the broken shore, that is what the whole beginning of legion was about, to get stronger and attack once again
    Technically the Lich King won. We fought him, and died. The only reason we did win is cause Tirion Dues Ex Machina'd himself out of the iceblock.
    If what doesn't kill you, makes you stronger. Then I should be a god by now.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Pandragon View Post
    Technically the Lich King won. We fought him, and died. The only reason we did win is cause Tirion Dues Ex Machina'd himself out of the iceblock.
    Yeah, he sure as hell benefited from that "technical" victory. Last thing he saw was giant "at least you tried" reward.

  18. #18
    Yes if his plan at Lights Hope had succeeded Tirion would have been dead. LK knew that he was the only paladin with the faith to stop him. Had Darion not surrendered and actually fallen in battle as was the plan Tirion would never have gotten the Ashbringer and would have been annihilated. He masterminded the entire chain of events. His plan was brilliant.
    Last edited by Morgomir; 2017-10-13 at 10:48 AM.
    I give bad feedback all the time, I just dont rage or give them shit. Paying for content does not gives you the license to be an asshole.

  19. #19
    we already know what will happen:
    After defeating Argus the Unmaker ghost of Aman'thul appears.
    Argus: [I]Brother? Is it... over? [/I]
    Aman'thul lays a comforting hand on Argus' gauntlet.
    Aman'thul: At long last. No Legion Lord rules forever, my brother.
    Argus: [I]I see... only void... before me...[/I]
    Argus' eyes roll back into his head and he dies, his hand falling to the ground. Aman'thul closes his brother's eyes and gently lays him on the ground as walks in.
    Aman'thul: [I]Without its master's command, the restless Legion will become an even greater threat to this world.[/I]
    Aman'thul stands, facing Velen.
    Aman'thul: [I]Control must be maintained... There must always be... Lord of the Burning Legion... [/I]
    Aman'thul' ghost disappear, and Velen shields his eyes from the blinding Golden Crown. Velen picks it up and examines it.
    Velen: [I]The weight of such a burden... it must be mine. For there is no other to—[/I]
    Beaten Illidan appear.
    Illidan: [I]Velen... You hold a grim destiny in your hands, draenei... but it is not your own. [/I]
    Velen:[I] Illidan... by all that is holy... [/I]
    Illidan: [I]The Sargeras flames... sealed my fate. The world of the living can no longer comfort me. Place the Golden Crown on me, Velen.. [/I]
    Velen turns his back on Illidan, preparing to walk away.
    Velen: [I]NO, old friend. I cannot. [/I]
    Illidan:[I] DO IT VELEN! You and these brave heroes have your own destinies to fulfill. This last act of service... is mine. [/I]
    Velen: [I]You will not be forgotten... brother. [/I]
    Illidan:[I] I MUST be forgotten Velen, If the world is to live free from the tyranny of the Burning Legion – they must never know what was done here today. [/I]
    Velen nods, the seat of pantheon begins to shake violently. There is a flash of light and Illidan's eyes are glowing yellow.
    Illidan: [I]Tell them only that the Lord of the Burning Legion is dead... [/I]
    Illidan: [I]and that Illidan died with him... [/I]
    Illidan: [I]NOW GO. LEAVE THIS PLACE – AND NEVER RETURN.[/I]

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by OIS View Post
    Nobody made the obvious "there must always be a Sargeras" joke, color me surprised.

    I think Blizzard should bring Ulthalesh into the spotlight.
    Well considering..

    Spoilers -- Sargeras won't die and will simply be imprisioned, that phrase is actually true --



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