Cutting edge? Is it still possible?

[Deleted]

So my guild got to Fallen Avatar this monday after raiding together for about 2 months, so I think we have had some decent progress.

With the recent nerfs to both KJ and FA is it possible with the time frame left of this tier. Is it still possible to achieve cutting edge?
Or should we just focus on getting people geared for Antorus?

Best regards!

[Deleted]

So my guild got to Fallen Avatar this monday after raiding together for about 2 months, so I think we have had some decent progress.

With the recent nerfs to both KJ and FA is it possible with the time frame left of this tier. Is it still possible to achieve cutting edge?
Or should we just focus on getting people geared for Antorus?

Best regards!

Obviously it depends on how much you raid, but if the new raid comes out in 5 reset, no, i doubt ull be able to down KJ, even if you decide to extend every week.

[Lucifer Morningstar]

We raid 2 days and downed it in like 300 attempts or so.

Yes. You have a good chance now after nerfs to down it and you have time. 5 resets is PLENTY of time to learn and down the nerfed KJ.

[Deleted]

We raid 2 days and downed it in like 300 attempts or so.

Yes. You have a good chance now after nerfs to down it and you have time. 5 resets is PLENTY of time to learn and down the nerfed KJ.

They got to avatar, didnt down him, so they have to kill ava AND kj in 5 reset.

Assuming they raid 4 days per week, 3 hours per day, and 30 tries per day, and they extend whole time, they get about 600 tries. No, 600 tries wont get down both form the average top 500-700 world guild.

[Lucifer Morningstar]

They got to avatar, didnt down him, so they have to kill ava AND kj in 5 reset.

Assuming they raid 4 days per week, 3 hours per day, and 30 tries per day, and they extend whole time, they get about 600 tries. No, 600 tries wont get down both form the average top 500-700 world guild.

With the available gear they have now and plenty of guides available it shouldn't take long to learn and down avatar and KJ in it's nerfed state.

Edit: What else are you gonna do for the next 5 weeks. Getting to Avatar shouldn't take you more than 3-4 hours if you've been farming him all this time. It's a 2 in one. Gear for next raid and try to progress.

[Deleted]

If they raided for 2 months they probably dont have a 940 average raid you know, and the nerfs KJ has gotten today arent huge like the ones guldan had.
It was a 500 tries boss for the average mythic guild around 600 world, and the nerfs WONT cut tries in half at all, you wont skip any mechanics.

[ONCHEhap]

If they raided for 2 months they probably dont have a 940 average raid you know, and the nerfs KJ has gotten today arent huge like the ones guldan had.
It was a 500 tries boss for the average mythic guild around 600 world, and the nerfs WONT cut tries in half at all, you wont skip any mechanics.

Yeah,if anything it'll help guild who had already a decent progress on him or guild who were very close to a kill,but it's far from turning him into a free kill boss

[Lucifer Morningstar]

Point taken. Should still try

I would still clear and do some tries on progress if I were u.

[Reloe]

500 tries for the average mythic guild? idk if it took you 500 attempts after the first round of nerfs when NLC came out, your progress on that boss sucked.
The nerfs will actually help quite a bit, many guilds are struggling to kill dps adds in time on their early attempts, especially when you reach 2nd dps adds with like 17 people alive or smth. This will not be an issue anymore at all.
The chances of someone "randomly" dying to armaggedon dot + some other overlap got massively reduced. Wipes of someone soaking an armaggedon while also having the beam can almost not happen anymore.
2nd transition damage reduced makes it so you don't have to worry too much if you push into p3 with a lot of people still having the dot.
And Flaming Orb nerf will give you way more room and also less coordination of who has to stay outside during darkness.

In the end it still comes down to how much you prep for the encounter. At this point this boss is only a mechanic check, all numbers have been tuned so low that you can't just die to damage anymore, which naturally leads to longer attempts and a faster learning curve.

A well prepped guild can down this boss under 200 attempts now.

[Deleted]

500 tries for the average mythic guild? idk if it took you 500 attempts after the first round of nerfs when NLC came out, your progress on that boss sucked.
The nerfs will actually help quite a bit, many guilds are struggling to kill dps adds in time on their early attempts, especially when you reach 2nd dps adds with like 17 people alive or smth. This will not be an issue anymore at all.
The chances of someone "randomly" dying to armaggedon dot + some other overlap got massively reduced. Wipes of someone soaking an armaggedon while also having the beam can almost not happen anymore.
2nd transition damage reduced makes it so you don't have to worry too much if you push into p3 with a lot of people still having the dot.
And Flaming Orb nerf will give you way more room and also less coordination of who has to stay outside during darkness.

In the end it still comes down to how much you prep for the encounter. At this point this boss is only a mechanic check, all numbers have been tuned so low that you can't just die to damage anymore, which naturally leads to longer attempts and a faster learning curve.

A well prepped guild can down this boss under 200 attempts now.

How about you check yourself how many tries it took for guilds that killed it last week, for instance, before you talk? Example, last one was convergence US: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/guilds/79245

439 tries. Yes nerfs now will help, but you also gotta consider that if you get to KJ a month/months after other guilds, chances are also you are not as good, so you will require more tries than them. If you get to ava now 4 months after the raid has been open, its very unlikely you'll kill both it and KJ in 5 resets unless you totally changed the roster and have much better people. Its a fact.

[KaPe]

If you only now reached Avatar, the Dark Mark nerf won't really help you all that much. It doesn't affect the most difficult part of the fight, so you won't save that much time. Unless you have amazing coordination between soakers and no one ever messes during Chaos, you'll have a fair amount of wipes before you reach KJ.

Sure it's "possible", but "likely" might be pushing it.

[Reloe]

well his guild didn't raid for all of tomb, so they essentially did 7/9 in 2months.
and 439 tries after NLC+first round of nerfs is still terrible progression. Guilds had less wipes before nerfs already. For referrence it took us 379 attempts, pre-nerf/crucible.
If it still takes you that amount of attempts, you just aren't doing the prep you should be doing. A lot of guilds still go into these bosses not knowing all of the mechanics. They may have watched a video but that doesn't mean people understood whats going on.

I'm not saying they will make it in time because they also have avatar left. But if you still need 400-500attempts on KJ your guild just did a bad job at that boss.

The example you posted lost like 60 world ranks from avatar to KJ btw, that pretty much shows that their wipecount is way above average.

[Emerald Archer]

I'm not saying they will make it in time because they also have avatar left. But if you still need 400-500attempts on KJ your guild just did a bad job at that boss.

The example you posted lost like 60 world ranks from avatar to KJ btw, that pretty much shows that their wipecount is way above average.

That's a terrible way to come to that conclusion. My guild took somewhere between 400-450 wipes to kill KJ, and gained world ranking. Went up 7 spots.

Tbf it started pre-nlc, and continued after, we had multiple strat changes due to multiple core members leaving (tank+healer) which definitely added a lot of wipes, being 250 in then having to change to 2 tanking it.

But I don't feel we did poorly, killed the boss on the 6th or so attempt of seeing the last phase. Yeah people who killed it earlier had less wipes, but suprise, they're also much better guilds. It isn't "The boss is easier, so the wipes should go down" YES the boss is easier, but the players as a whole are worse. So you should expect equal or slightly higher total wipes.

[Reloe]

yea because prenerf/shortly after 400-500 wipes were common, which is why you didn't lose ranks with that amount of wipes. Nowadays it isn't anymore.
Ofcourse its not 100% accurate because it also depends on how many days you raid.

[Emerald Archer]

yea because prenerf/shortly after 400-500 wipes were common, which is why you didn't lose ranks with that amount of wipes. Nowadays it isn't anymore.
Ofcourse its not 100% accurate because it also depends on how many days you raid.

We got the kill last week, it wasn't really shortly after. Your logic is flawed.

[Reloe]

well your text made it sound like that, I didn't look you up

[Alvito]

You have until the next raid comes out. So it is possible, maybe unlikely though.

- - - Updated - - -

Depending on your raid comp I imagine it is worth giving a try and checking the temp of the raid in the next few weeks. Wipimg for a month to jump right into a new raid might not be the best long term plan.

[Temp name]

You have a month.. Ish.
Should be doable

[Emerald Archer]

So my guild got to Fallen Avatar this monday after raiding together for about 2 months, so I think we have had some decent progress.

With the recent nerfs to both KJ and FA is it possible with the time frame left of this tier. Is it still possible to achieve cutting edge?
Or should we just focus on getting people geared for Antorus?

Best regards!

Decent chance of another nerf, as this one wasn't very notable. I'd kill avatar if I was you, then see how much time you have left. If you raid 3 nights a week 4hrs each, and have 2 weeks at least left, i'd extend and try KJ. And hope for another nerf. It just really depends how many days you raid, for how many hours, and how long is left till the raid after.

[In Ogres We Trust]

And this is why I no longer engage in organized raiding.