Do you prefer Wod or Legion Hunter overall?

[Deleted]

This.

The only good thing I can think about MoP though.

On a side note: I so hate this Blizzard manner to constantly change classes.

If you are able to play the same shit for 13 years I salute you, the game would be pretty much dead compared to now though if they stop changing classes (and I'm not talking about the sv change here) regulary

[SnowTang]

MoP Survival.

Bring. It. Back.

[Deleted]

If you are able to play the same shit for 13 years I salute you, the game would be pretty much dead compared to now though if they stop changing classes (and I'm not talking about the sv change here) regulary

i could play mop survival for 20 more years, without single change

[Eapoe]

i could play mop survival for 20 more years, without single change

Which part? The part that has been pretty much the same since Wrath, or the tier that let you fire ES all the time?
On a non condescending note, I miss Wrath the most. It's when I started and has the fondness of being my 1st Max level character. The one I started to learn the ins and outs of the game, started raiding, started PVP. There's just so much nostalgia to it that I remember it fondly. I liked that all 3 specs were so damn interchangeable that the learning curve of each was low. You know how to play BM? Great, add or remove a button and you can play SV and MM. I liked having Rapid Fire and Kill Shot. I liked having a small resource to manage and you had to regen it. I know some felt that was tedious, but it felt nice having to be slightly smart about when to regen.
I liked that they were closely tied to the same lore, as all 3 specs were Hunters that formed bonds with their pets.
But...the question wasn't about Wrath. Between the 2 presented, I enjoy Legion more. I like that they fleshed out the spec identity they were going for better (let's be honest, WoD felt like the spec identity stopped at removing KS from some specs and giving Call Stable to BM).

[Craaazyyy]

hunter pre mop was amazing, in mop they made it too easy.. it was still better than it is now tho, way better..

but if i had to choose between wod and legion hunter it'll be wod no doubt.. bm is legit for idiots, mm is just ruined and surv is an abomination of a spec

class design in general in legion is a joke.. this so called class fantasy is the most retarded shit that blizzard ever pulled out

[threads]

i could play mop survival for 20 more years, without single change

i can't stand hunter in legion after experiencing mop design. definitely think MoP was our peak and it's been a downgrade ever since.

[Mirishka]

Neither, I prefer Mists. :P

[Monkeymoo]

hunter pre mop was amazing, in mop they made it too easy.. it was still better than it is now tho, way better..

but if i had to choose between wod and legion hunter it'll be wod no doubt.. bm is legit for idiots, mm is just ruined and surv is an abomination of a spec

class design in general in legion is a joke.. this so called class fantasy is the most retarded shit that blizzard ever pulled out

SV had more To it in MoP than Cata. If you meant any other spec then I dunno, i didn’t play them.

[Mirishka]

i can't stand hunter in legion after experiencing mop design. definitely think MoP was our peak and it's been a downgrade ever since.

^ this. Well, the peak part. I do still enjoy my hunter, but it wasn't until I literally max'd her artifact and could do everything they're designed to do this expansion.

[Monkeymoo]

Because I judge classes based on the entire package. How good is it at everything you can do in the game. What are it's true strengths and weaknesses? We all know that one druid strength is its instant flight form, but that would be totally useless in raids, right? So you're just going to forget about that and pretend it doesn't exist?

I do a lot of different things in wow as I'm sure many hunters here do. They don't JUST raid, or JUST do mythic+, or JUST do world quests. This specific poll didn't mention anything about raids -- it just says do you prefer wod or legion Hunter overall? To me, it's clearly Legion Hunters for several reasons--not just their superior ability to farm transmog gear for collection or gold making. Their ability to solo Legion content is pretty fantastic. To me, what makes the Hunter fun is how much utility it has, and boy we've got a lot.

I don't ever die from falling damage. --Disengage
I don't ever have to wait for that stupid combat bug to mount up. -- Feign Death
I don't get my ass kicked if I pull too many mobs on Argus or Broken Isle. -- Turtle tenacity pet with shell + misdirection + ability to dot heal and continue dps unlike warlocks who have to stop to heal their pets.
Goblin glider removed from all dungeons? No problem. Hunters can tame Rylak pets and give ourselves Updraft (slowfall), combine that with disengage and you're leaping over chasms such as the ones in AQ20, BRD, Dire Maul etc. It's useful.

Hunters can do it all, and the things Blizzard added in Legion make us even better overall. How could we be worse? Do we do less damage? Are we slower? If Blizzard had kept the traps from Beast Mastery spec, I would probably have agreed that WoD Hunters were better. I don't like utility being taken away from me, but we got them back, and we got even more utility now.

Do you realize my cobra shots are down to 26 focus cost right now? Do you know how insanely useful that is in both current raid content AND old dungeon farming?

If you want me to get deep into it, post a Discord. I'm not a fan of typing and it takes so long to type crap nobody understands. When I speak in voice, 3 seconds later mysteriously everyone understands where I'm coming from, but in text, they think I'm trolling. I don't get it at all.

Everything you listed as a plus for Hunters in Legion literally existed in WoD. In Legion however our pets were severely nerfed as was mend pet, and then losing the chain MD glyph, not to mention animal bond that healed your pet constantly and significantly. And yes we are slower because for instance (unless you were an absolute moron) you could keep cheetah on yourself pretty damn regularly not to mention that pack was incredibly useful (unless of course again you were an idiot). We lost 2 charges of deterrence (or turtle now) and disengage was also on a shorter cd.

[superhumanj]

WoD hunter was wayyyy better no question.

- - - Updated - - -

The old stampede was great, chimaera shot for MM, Kill shot is missed it was a lot of fun sniping mobs when they hit 20% hp, spamming arcane shot over and over feels like you're not even doing anything.

[Polybius]

Cata-WoD survival hunter. Still think they chose the wrong spec for melee.

[Bepples]

Nope. We're faster. I've been a Hunter since 2006 and I make current videos of speed farming things and you're going to tell ME? Look dude:

The United States went to the moon in 1969.
Evolution is a fact.
The earth is an oblate spheroid (round).
and
Hunters are faster in Legion than in any previous expansion.

Please don't deny facts. It doesn't make you look mentally healthy.

Post a discord server, watch a couple of my youtube videos, or hop on my stream and get educated in real time as I go through everything. But we all know it's easier to sit on a forum and make stuff up. I'm speaking objective truths right now, dude.

How far up your own ass do you have to be to post something this arrogant? It's made even more pathetic by the fact that it's wrong and you think saying our arguments are akin to common conspiracy theories constitutes a real argument.

'Faster' can mean two things:

- Pace of gameplay (i.e. rotation): Objectively slower. BM Hunters before Legion had a 1.0 sec GCD and 0% downtime. BM Hunters now have a 1.5 sec GCD and a variable amount of downtime, with about 10% minimum depending on gear.
- Mobility. In comparison to pre-WoD, we no longer have a 30% speed boost that we can maintain for most of the fight (the closest is the 'Trailblazer' talent which is functionally worthless in combat) and we instead have a dash with a pretty short duration, low run speed, and high cooldown. Posthaste still exists, but is nerfed. Disengage still exists, but we no longer have a glyph to increase its range. We have Farstrider, but it's worthless compared to Posthaste (as is Trailblazer): we used to have Crouching Tiger, Hidden Chimera which was at least a good alternative. While this matter isn't as clear cut as the pace of gameplay, it's clear that at the very best Legion BM only breaks even when it comes to mobility, and I think it's pretty clearly a downgrade. The new Aspect of the Cheetah is simply not good enough. The cooldown is too long and it only increases your movement speed by 100% for 3 seconds, after which you get a 30% increase for 9 seconds (same speed as the old Cheetah) and then you're SOL for the next 111 seconds. The old version broke when you took damage, but you could avoid damage for pretty long stretches of time in PvE (PvP, not so much: but the enemy can just slow you to nothing and make the current AotC worthless as well). You could also glyph it to have the 10 sec CD but no daze so you could have it back again quickly.

Basically, if you want to have any hope of presenting a good argument, you should be arguing that we've preserved the same amount of mobility. Because that's actually at least debatable depending on the usefulness of old Cheetah v.s. new Cheetah. Saying the spec is just flat-out faster is false and not debatable.

Finally, no one gives a shit about your content; I think it's a safe bet it's a) probably terrible and b) irrelevant, so stop trying to advertise it in every one of your posts.

P.S. My last post was addressing your claim that BM has greater soloing ability in Legion by demonstrating that it most certainly doesn't. I noticed from Monkeymoo's post that I had forgotten yet another key detail: we used to have a glyph that massively increased our Mend Pet healing, which no longer exists. Therefore it is much harder to keep our pet alive through heavy damage. So add that to the pile of reasons you're wrong.

EDIT: I actually suffered through nirv's channel for a few minutes. The vast majority of his mobility in the Uldaman speedrun he brags about is from Vigilance Perch, Bear Tartare, Speed tertiary stat, and Rocket Boots...i.e. things that are not part of the base Hunter toolkit. He is using external speed buffs to make judgements about the mobility of the spec itself. What a joke.

[solarfallz]

Game. Set. Match. I just did this today.

Bear Tartare. I'll alert the carepolice.

[threads]

No other class so far has been able to beat my run time--not even a warrior with 175% base movement speed. Stop insulting Hunters or I will ask you to get in Discord and I will give you what-for.

no i just think nobody really cares about running around uldaman

[Bepples]

Game. Set. Match. I just did this today.

What a worthless reply. You failed to address any points I made, and when I called you out on blatantly advertising your content here, you just went ahead and did exactly that. I'm not going to watch a whole video of you running through a low-level instance using tools that any class can use. Even if Hunters are the fastest at doing that, that doesn't confirm that Hunters are more mobile now than they used to be; only that there are more plentiful run-speed enhances available(you didn't have Bear Tartare in prior expansions).

Nevertheless, generally when we talk about mobility we are interested in mobility where it matters. In a raid or PvP situation:
- You won't be using Bear Tartare, but rather a feast buff or +375 secondary stat food
- You can't use rocket boots because they share a cooldown with damage potions
- You won't be using Vigilance Perch because it's easily the least valuable legendary throughput-wise
- You won't be prioritising Speed above all else

So, basically, you are relying on the tools that come with the class and nothing else. This is the benchmark for mobility discussions. You have a habit of first claiming that Hunters themselves have gained mobility for competitive situations, then going on to use non-competitive situations with a ton of mobility tools that aren't Hunter-specific. It's dishonest and meaningless. Finally, it's clear to me that your primary purpose in this thread is plugging your online content since nearly all of your posts here direct people to your Twitch streams or Youtube channel, and this reply to me demonstrates that you care a lot more about sharing your content than contributing to the discussion. Hey, I can plug content too while also contributing. I'll even use it as supporting material for my stance that Hunters are downgraded in this expansion:



There's me doing Brackenspore Mythic a couple years ago as Survival. Note several things in this video:
- 1.0 sec GCD, which leads to much faster and more involved gameplay
- 0% downtime
- Aspect of the Cheetah, +30% runspeed (I don't recall if I had it glyphed for that fight, but you could get it up to 38% by doing so), near constant uptime
- Posthaste with 8 seconds, rather than 5 seconds
- Deterrence with 2 charges
- Full mobility
- No reliance on a pet
- Multidotting capability
- Utilities such as Tranquilising Shot, Distracting Shot, Camouflage, and Aspect of the Fox

NO Hunter spec in Legion offers all the above at once. Even if we limit it to just BM (which I played in BrF), you can just take away "No reliance on a pet" and "Multidotting capability". It still keeps everything else I listed while Legion BM does not. Brackenspore is actually a great example of the decline in the versatility and adaptability of the Hunter class. The Flamethrower mechanic was busted for BM since your pet didn't get buffed, so that left MM and SV. MM couldn't do its full damage potential while moving due to Sniper Training, but Careful Aim made it a great choice for the fight since you could very effectively snipe the adds. SV had no movement penalty and you could multi-dot the adds. Personally I just did it as SV because SV was more fun. Fast-forward to Legion: SV is now ruled out because it's melee, MM is far more immobile since you have to stand still for Aimed Shot, and BM is still busted due to the pet issue. So that makes MM the ONLY choice, and it's far more sub-par than it used to be. If a fight like that ever comes up again, the class as a whole is drastically weaker. You could argue that this example is an outlier, but it's a clear demonstration of our reduced capabilities in Legion. Particularly how if you want a fully-mobile ranged you MUST take BM whereas before you could take the more pet-independent Survival and have a unique dot-oriented playstyle.

Oh, and I didn't have to post a video of myself gaming obsolete content with food buffs to prove my point. That's what was then relevant content with just the tools made available to me by the class at the time. Isn't it great when the content is actually relevant and contributing to the discussion at hand?

[Charge me Doctor]

Hunters can do it all, and the things Blizzard added in Legion make us even better overall. How could we be worse? Do we do less damage? Are we slower? If Blizzard had kept the traps from Beast Mastery spec, I would probably have agreed that WoD Hunters were better. I don't like utility being taken away from me, but we got them back, and we got even more utility now.

I would guess, because some hunters still haven't rehabilitated from aspect of the fox loss that allowed that cancerous playstyle, when you could play with castsequence macro and never be impaired by any sort of movement, while still beating warlocks on DPS

[Not A Cat]

I do like survival more in Legion, but I liked MM and BM so much more in WoD that I had to vote WoD

[Xloudman]

Today I learned there are people (likely trolls) who actually prefer legion hunter. Unless they're one of the weirdos committed to survival, these are probably the people that stand in line to buy the newest apple products, watch the big bang theory, and say upvote or retweet when they agree with something IRL.

[Bepples]

I would guess, because some hunters still haven't rehabilitated from aspect of the fox loss that allowed that cancerous playstyle, when you could play with castsequence macro and never be impaired by any sort of movement, while still beating warlocks on DPS

Cancerous? Give me a break. The highly mobile and versatile style of play made Hunters a unique, fun, and exciting option. You people harp on about how this was somehow bad for the class, yet the class was more popular than ever when it had that playstyle. Do you want literally 100% of ranged specs in the game to be the same, immobile, glass-cannon caster?

And no, you could not play with a castseuqnce macro at any time since Burning Crusade. That makes it ironic since you claim the later model of the class was worse yet it was BC that had the infamous 1 button macro for all our specs. And we never beat Warlocks on DPS. We always traded off damage for mobility. You're pretty much talking out your ass at this point.

I'm not reading your novel, dude. It's 2017. You get in voice or you get out of my life. The reason you won't get in voice is because you KNOW you won't be able to answer basic questions because the truth is you don't play Hunters to their fullest potential -- you probably just raid and do light pvp. You don't actually experiment and do other things with them. You actually think me posting videos is something to be ashamed of; it's called EVIDENCE. You said you looked at my channel, and you'd see I've got Hunter videos going all the way back to 2007 when I was farming mobs on my NE Hunter in Outlands.

Get in voice or get out of my life. I actually LIKE Hunters--you don't.

You really do think you're God's gift to the class, don't you?

You're not the only person who "plays Hunters to their fullest potential" and you're not the only one who experiments with the class. When I think of someone pushing the class to its limits, I'm thinking of Mionelol soloing Atramedes shortly after it was current, or Shoot soloing Nythendra and Mythic Archimonde. I don't think of someone using Bear Tartare to run through Uldaman really fast. You failed to actually respond to any of the criticisms I made and opted instead to share your fantasies about your status in the class. You're not the only enlightened pioneer in a community of sheep; you're just some random WoW player who has an unbelievably inflated opinion of themselves.

I didn't say posting videos was something to be ashamed of. I post WoW videos too. A ton of us here do. What you should be ashamed of is persistently plugging your channel in all of your posts regardless of its relevance. Like I said, your original stance was that Hunters had gained utility and mobility in this expansion. You failed to actually name any real examples, and instead linked a video of you speedrunning a level 40 dungeon using a ton of speed boosts that aren't Hunter-specific. Even if Hunter is the fastest at it, can you actually demonstrate that you've gained mobility over WoD? Imagine a hypothetical situation where we did have Bear Tartare and Vigilance Perch with the WoD version of the class: would you be faster or slower, and why? You can't use those things in competitive situations. You're out of your mind if you think a video of you clearing a low-level instance is a verdict on the state of the class. Seriously: don't even bother replying unless you are going to post a definitive summary of what you think Hunters have gained in Legion because so far you've just been naming things we were already able to do while glossing over the things we are no longer able to do.

Oh, and you're not the only person who's been playing for 10 years. There's literally no other reason you keep bringing this up other than pure narcissism and the need to one-up every other poster. I made my first Hunter in 2005. I don't brag about it because I'm not desperate for attention and praise, unlike you.

I don't know why you're so obsessed with getting people on voice chat. Contrary to your hysterical conjecture, I haven't gone to voice chat because forums have the benefit of allowing me to post whenever I want from wherever I want. I'm not always in a situation where I can join voice chat (none of us are) and I don't care for making a Discord appointment with some random nobody over the internet. Plus, voice chat debates are basically down to whoever can interrupt and shout down the other side the most. You can't do that in text. If you're going to make up such things about me, I'm going to go ahead and claim that you are preferring to move away from the forums because you can't handle in-depth, structured, and comprehensive arguments. That's your own problem. If you want to ask me questions, you can easily ask them here. You haven't asked any yet. I've been asking questions and you've been glossing over them, so your claim that I'm avoiding questions is nothing but projection.

Whether or not you personally like Hunters doesn't matter to us. Many of us don't like the direction of the class. As you can see from this poll result, people overwhelmingly favour the prior iteration. I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish by just repeating your own opinion of the class and saying we disagree. Is this just another element of your narcissism where in your mind our disagreement of the state of the class automatically disqualifies our criticisms?

Why don't you farm for transmog and fill out the appearance tab the way you do the mount and toy tabs? Oh. Oh, you mean you don't have an answer for that?

Call me crazy, but I don't think he can respond to your post while you're still typing it.