1. #1
    Banned nanook12's Avatar
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    Innovation vs Humaneness ?

    Capitalism favors innovation at the cost of humanity, and socialism favors humanity at the cost of innovation.

    Although I am definitely left-wing, I can clearly see that the main reason why the US stays the worlds top super power is because we have such high levels of innovation. Capitalism enables this type of innovation by offering the best possible incentive, massive wealth gains. Our military is so advanced that it laps the field in terms of technological advancements. We have the biggest stick; therefore, we mostly get to make the rules of the world.

    However, it accomplishes this at a human cost. Low wages, poor working conditions, class stratification, high rates of imprisonment.

    Socialism is the opposite of capitalism. It favors humanity at the cost of innovation. However, by having such low levels of innovation it cripples its ability create new technology and export goods in the global market. It a also hampers its military might which is the crux of how nations define power in our modern world.

    I am prepared to let go of position as the worlds top super power in order to obtain more humane treatment of citizens. I do not believe is enslaving myself to a system that treats me badly just so the system as a whole remains top dog.

    That is how I feel, but what about you?

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by nanook12 View Post
    Capitalism favors innovation at the cost of humanity, and socialism favors humanity at the cost of innovation.
    Thanks for the laugh. Seen industrial areas in former Soviet countries? Many were wastelands with water, soil contaminated for generations. Compare the treatment of emergency responders and cleanup workers Chernobyl vs Fukushima.

    *cue the incoming 'no real socialism' bullshit in 3, 2, 1...

  3. #3
    Innovations are the only true path to welfare and prosperity. Without innovations we would still be cavemen.

    That doesn't mean we need to discard "humanity". Innovations are intended to make life easier and more enjoyable.

  4. #4
    Banned nanook12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thevoicefromwithin View Post
    Thanks for the laugh. Seen industrial areas in former Soviet countries? Many were wastelands with water, soil contaminated for generations. Compare the treatment of emergency responders and cleanup workers Chernobyl vs Fukushima.

    *cue the incoming 'no real socialism' bullshit in 3, 2, 1...
    Top 10 happiest countries in the world. Practically all of them are social democracies a.k.a capitalism with heavy socialistic regulation.
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/norway-...untry-of-2017/

    Try again though.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by nanook12 View Post
    Top 10 happiest countries in the world. Practically all of them are social democracies a.k.a capitalism with heavy socialistic regulation.
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/norway-...untry-of-2017/

    Try again though.
    Why not copy the list?

    1. Norway
    2. Denmark
    3. Iceland
    4. Switzerland
    5. Finland
    6. Netherlands
    7. Canada
    8. New Zealand
    9. Australia
    10. Sweden
    11. Israel
    12. Costa Rica
    13. Austria
    14. United States
    15. Ireland
    16. Germany
    17. Belgium
    18. Luxembourg
    19. United Kingdom
    20. Chile

    Apart from in some aspects unreasonably heavy taxation in at least Sweden, Belgium, Germany, all of these countries have a level of 'socialistic regulation' I am perfectly fine with. If you're rallying cry is "Let's become as socialist as Ireland, the UK and the US", you have my unconditional support.

  6. #6
    Banned nanook12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gahmuret View Post
    Innovations are the only true path to welfare and prosperity. Without innovations we would still be cavemen.

    That doesn't mean we need to discard "humanity". Innovations are intended to make life easier and more enjoyable.
    Innovations are intended to make life easier but they really do just as much harm as they do good. That's the problem. The advent of guns made hunting easier, but also made killing people easier. Cars made transportation easier, but cause millions of deaths each year and are the main contributor to climate change. With the invention of nuclear power came nuclear war.

    So no. I disagree with you that innovation makes life easier and better. The only reason we must keep innovating is because we have to eventually make it off this planet before all of its resources are used up at that's it. Innovation is needed for our continued expansion as a species, but it does not make our lives any happier or better.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by thevoicefromwithin View Post
    Why not copy the list?

    1. Norway
    2. Denmark
    3. Iceland
    4. Switzerland
    5. Finland
    6. Netherlands
    7. Canada
    8. New Zealand
    9. Australia
    10. Sweden
    11. Israel
    12. Costa Rica
    13. Austria
    14. United States
    15. Ireland
    16. Germany
    17. Belgium
    18. Luxembourg
    19. United Kingdom
    20. Chile

    Apart from in some aspects unreasonably heavy taxation in at least Sweden, Belgium, Germany, all of these countries have a level of 'socialistic regulation' I am perfectly fine with. If you're rallying cry is "Let's become as socialist as Ireland, the UK and the US", you have my unconditional support.
    I am in favor of much heavier taxation in the west. Under a single payer healthcare program the people would pay less through taxation for healthcare than they would for private healthcare.
    Last edited by nanook12; 2017-10-21 at 06:03 AM.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by thevoicefromwithin View Post
    Why not copy the list?

    1. Norway
    2. Denmark
    3. Iceland
    4. Switzerland
    5. Finland
    6. Netherlands
    7. Canada
    8. New Zealand
    9. Australia
    10. Sweden
    11. Israel
    12. Costa Rica
    13. Austria
    14. United States
    15. Ireland
    16. Germany
    17. Belgium
    18. Luxembourg
    19. United Kingdom
    20. Chile

    Apart from in some aspects unreasonably heavy taxation in at least Sweden, Belgium, Germany, all of these countries have a level of 'socialistic regulation' I am perfectly fine with. If you're rallying cry is "Let's become as socialist as Ireland, the UK and the US", you have my unconditional support.
    Is this the usual alt-right argument of "hey the US is slightly better than x developing country, so it must be doing something right"?

    Because last I checked, according to non-alternative logic, the supposed overall top nation in the world is only the 14th most happy one is embarrassingly sad.

    And on that note of so called "communist hellholes", there are way more "capitalist" nations that are struggling to have less than 90% of the population above the poverty line, like Africa and Philippines. But of course, due to the pathological cognitive dissonance that alt-righters have, they seem to keep forgetting inconvenient facts to their little hivemind agenda.
    Last edited by PosPosPos; 2017-10-21 at 08:42 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasierith View Post
    This is the party(GoP) whose frontrunners are being wiped out by an overly aggressive meme generator with a cheese puff on its head by their own supporters. I wouldn't credit them with the intelligence or foresight not to burn toast, much less have a long term strategy underway.
    Quote Originally Posted by Poopymonster View Post
    It's like Schroedinger's Immigrant, who simultaneously get unemployment and steals jobs from Americans.

  8. #8
    We've got a pretty good balance of capitalism and socialism here.
    To declare that a personal, inner experience gives certainty about the workings of the universe is to assign far too much value to one’s subjective sense of conviction.
    I’m not that arrogant.

    The brain, marvelous instrument though it is, isn’t infallible. It can misfire, seize or hallucinate, and it can do so in a way that’s utterly indistinguishable from reality to the person experiencing it.

  9. #9
    The belief that socialism is humane as opposed to capitalism is dumb af and I hope it dies in a fire.
    Quote Originally Posted by Connal View Post
    I'd never compare him to Hitler, Hitler was actually well educated, and by all accounts pretty intelligent.
    Quote Originally Posted by Actual Mod
    Already being covered in man baby thread
    “The problem in Venezuela is not that socialism has been poorly implemented, but that socialism has been faithfully implemented."

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