Mythic plus killed the raiding scene.

[Deleted]

I stopped Mythic raiding because its too hard to get 20 people that want to raid mythic in a non-competitive environment on my server. Bring back 10 man mythic or merge more servers are the only solutions.

This is precisely what killed raiding for my guild. And hence killed the guild in general.

[Dormie]

Raiding is fine.

[Socialhealer]

the nail in the coffin for raiding would be tier sets from mythic+

thats the thing keeping raiding alive right now.

that and m+ only drops 915, while mythic drops 930 and 940.

[cparle87]

Having Average Joe go through the same raid on 4 different difficulties on all characters is what 'kills' the raiding scene.

Here is the workflow:
- Get <insert one of many alts> to 110
- Do the exact same WQs to get some gear
- Do LFR of <insert current raid>
- Do Normal of <insert current raid>
- Do Heroic of <insert current raid>
- Do Mythic of <insert current raid>
- Done? Pick <insert one of many alts> and do this exact same thing again

Want to do one of the previous raids? You might have some luck with group finder, but the rewards are mostly vanity and everyone is tunnelled in to the current tier.

It's like playing the Call of Duty campaign on 4 difficulties over and over and over.

Actually it's more like.
If you're a casual you do LFR and maybe pug normal if you have lots of time.
If you're a bit more serious join a guild and commit to a schedule to raid heroic.
Or if you're a hardcore guy join with other hardcore guys and raid mythic and do everything you can do min/max.

The guy in the first row won't care about heroic or mythic.
The guy in the second row won't care about lfr or normal.
The guy in the third row will have some trouble cause he'll be expected to run all of the above for leggos.

Average Joe, as you call him, is the guy in the first row. He's not doing the same raid on 4 difficulties on even one character, let alone all of them.

[Zigrifid]

Mythic+ are useful, remember when at the mid of an expansion or sometimes at the last tier you had to recruit people AND gear them up? yeah now with the m+ runs you might get geared people (without tiers ofc) so the only thing you got to do is run them in a hc ToS for example for 4 piece set and not full 14+3xrelic slots. Mythic+ are more useful than people might thing.

[Deleted]

Why this thread is still open if it is bs and the title got proven wrong?

[Socialhealer]

Tbh I would really like dungeon sets from M+. The difference would be, the dungeon set would buff aspects of the class that are important for M+ but not as much for raids, e.g. defensive or control set bonus for dps and offensive set bonus for tanks and healers.

yeh it'd be nice to get more survival based shit for some classes that lack it, but that goes for raids as well with tomb of soakgeras.

[Daffan]

Without raids, why are people even gearing?

Seriously, just sit afk and next patch Blizzard gives you a full set of gear for free and resets the Mythic+ scaling anyway... Your farming the same crud over and over so welfare can replace it?

[Spookysheep]

Raiding's been kept alive on life support by LFR for years.
It's about time it died for good.

I agree with this. If not for LFR then there would be no raiding left in this game. People don't want to schedule their lives around a video game, not normal, functioning people anyway.

[Dristereau]

I don't think Mythic+ is a Raid Scene killer. My biggest gripe with raiding is going from a flexible format to a fixed 20 person for the highest difficulty.

To give you an example; My Guild is on an average/low pop server. There's a reasonable amount of Heroic Guilds who raid at various times but, having a good friendship with most of the people and being there for three/four years, I don't really want to leave/move. So we raid two nights a week, and we clear Normal, and then Heroic, But then, with our Raid Team consisting of around 17 players max, are stuck for weeks. People stop signing because they're bored with nothing new to do, we don't have enough people to go into Mythic and things stop, until the new wave of content.

In our case we attempted to go to 20 man in WoD. Ultimately there was a group who splintered off who did not get along with some others and after that we ended the notion of mythic.

So imagine all the Heroic Guilds out there with 10-19 raiders. All those who clear Heroic and then spend weeks waiting for content because they don't have or cannot get the players required to move up for Mythic. All those players who stop playing or transfer to established Mythic Guilds and the Heroic Guilds bleed players. How many players are lost because they don't have any raiding progression to do?

[Temp name]

Having Average Joe go through the same raid on 4 different difficulties on all characters is what 'kills' the raiding scene.

Here is the workflow:
- Get <insert one of many alts> to 110
- Do the exact same WQs to get some gear
- Do LFR of <insert current raid>
- Do Normal of <insert current raid>
- Do Heroic of <insert current raid>
- Do Mythic of <insert current raid>
- Done? Pick <insert one of many alts> and do this exact same thing again

Want to do one of the previous raids? You might have some luck with group finder, but the rewards are mostly vanity and everyone is tunnelled in to the current tier.

It's like playing the Call of Duty campaign on 4 difficulties over and over and over.

Or.. Here's what I've done for my newly rolled main:
Ding 110
Complete Argus
Do Argus daily for 6 weeks (haven't gotten anything even remotely useful the past 4 weeks, but hey.. Arcano crystal is OP, gotta keep trying)
Do M+ weekly (or more)
Do Heroic ToS (for tier)
Do mythic ToS (For trinkets and tier)

a week in, I had 910, 3 weeks in I had 930, 4 weeks in I had 940. If you're doing mythic, you have 0 reason to do normal or LFR, or to touch WQ's outside of emissary. They're horrendously inefficient for gearing up.

[CaptainV]

Less and fewer people raid today, with mythic + gear being easier to obtain. It's just as good as mythic raiding gear. With how the mythic + esport is going we can expect from now on Mythic + will always be a thing and it wont change other than more dungeons and affixes. I love dungeons as much as the next guy, but getting better gear from mythic raidng is a joke. The dungeons are not hard enough to where they should get better gear, until you do a 17 key the content is a joke, assuming you do it on your main.

I cant link anything because Im new, it says "You are not allowed to post any kinds of links, images or videos until you post a few times." However you guys can look up what I just said through WQ and WoW progress.

Raiding has been dead long before that, Mythic tier raiding was a bad idea, Heroic was a bad idea, LFR, was a bad idea.

Raiding had more life when there were 8 raids instead of 4 per expansion.

And only one or two tiers at most of difficulty for said raids.

Yes, even 1 boss raids are still raids, they still had something to count for raiding.

Mythic+ didnt help ill admit, but frankly I think its unhealthy in general to have 4 tiers of the same fucking content.

[Sansnom]

Having Average Joe go through the same raid on 4 different difficulties on all characters is what 'kills' the raiding scene.

Here is the workflow:
- Get <insert one of many alts> to 110
- Do the exact same WQs to get some gear
- Do LFR of <insert current raid>
- Do Normal of <insert current raid>
- Do Heroic of <insert current raid>
- Do Mythic of <insert current raid>
- Done? Pick <insert one of many alts> and do this exact same thing again

Want to do one of the previous raids? You might have some luck with group finder, but the rewards are mostly vanity and everyone is tunnelled in to the current tier.

It's like playing the Call of Duty campaign on 4 difficulties over and over and over.

Average Joe does not have to do all the difficulties. Just because Blizzard added the option for the player to choose the relevant difficulty for their skill level does not mean it is mandatory to do all them.

Stop blaming Blizzard. If the player wants to do all the raid tiers to increase their chance of getting the loot, that is their decision.

[Dystemper]

Getting rid of 10m raiding killed raiding

[ID811717]

Without raids, why are people even gearing?

To push high M+. Arguably more fun than raiding.
Mythic raiding is not necessary for those striving to be the best in the world in M+. For example, look at this character.

Seriously, just sit afk and next patch Blizzard gives you a full set of gear for free and resets the Mythic+ scaling anyway... Your farming the same crud over and over so welfare can replace it?

Isn't it the same with raiding? Why bother wiping hundreds of times in mythic raids, if your mythic gear will be replaced by welfare heroic gear next tier?

[Daffan]

To push high M+. Arguably more fun than raiding.
Mythic raiding is not necessary for those striving to be the best in the world in M+. For example, look at this character.



Isn't it the same with raiding? Why bother wiping hundreds of times in mythic raids, if your mythic gear will be replaced by welfare heroic gear next tier?

But the raid feels new and challenging, until said stupid welfare trivializes/obsoletes it next patch.

[HuxNeva]

Another view: 10 man and later Flex allowed for lots of too small guilds to raid HC. Then they run into the 20 man requirement of Mythic. So merge? But problem is that a 20 man roster doesn't need just 2x more of each. So e.g. the 4 tanks, probably were among the more committed players of both guilds, now face benching. So all these dynamics make guilds very reluctant to 'merge' for mythic. Larger guilds that can field raiding teams on all sort of level do not have this problem. M+ gear actually helps a lot of guilds go further than they would have in the past, as they now have a very time intensive, but non-time gated and fun way of gear progression to help out.

TL/DR: in the past a team that logistically could do HC could do Mythic. Now, that is not true, and this is for many guilds an unsurpassable hurdle.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

20-man gating puts a big damper on mythic raiding; M+ gives us something to do if we're not in a large guild.

[Marrilaife]

the nail in the coffin for raiding would be tier sets from mythic+

Blizzard had better idea. This just in: tier sets won't be made for raids in BFA. Because people were using old sets or some 4p+2p combos and whatnot and Blizzard doesn't like the world where ilvl isn't the king. "If it's higher ilvl it should be an upgrade" was their motto for quite some time, but players knew better equipping lower trinkets, tier pieces and jewellery with better secondaries... Apparently tier sets are the first to get an axe.