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  1. #141
    Deleted
    - Being a Zandalari Paladin would be great.

    For PvP mainly :

    - Denounce back.
    - Hand of Purity back.
    - Removing the "beacon" tax causing us to have miserable and really bad scalable heal compare to other healers.
    - Make flash heal great again.
    - Hoj 20y baseline.
    - Trash buffs like Blessings of Kings/Might
    - Not being totally wings dependant to have as much heals as other healers who doesn't need cooldowns to heal.

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Shnider View Post

    -Remove Cavalier. new talent: reduce the cooldown of divine steed by 3 seconds everytime you spend holy power.
    No.

    When do you need the Steed the most? When you are out of range.
    How do you spend HoPo when out range? You don't.
    The point of your talent..?

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Shnider View Post
    We are free to have our own opinions last time i checked.

    The logic behind it is to have it up as many times as you want in the fight. If you are moving out and in using 2 divine steeds then you are wasting your divine steeds and get screwed for oh fuck moments.
    also we are free to debate other's opinions last time I checked.
    hence I provided arguemented criticism for your opinion, or much rather, your idea.

    You are, of course, free to be a fethwipe and ignore feedback, or engage in an actual conversation in how can your idea be improved.
    Feel free.
    Let it go.

    So the logic is to have a talent which would not improve on ret mobility, but to cover fails made by player, and entirely useless in pvp at the very same time?
    Subarashi.

  4. #144
    Pit Lord Sigxy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shnider View Post
    -Remove Cavalier. new talent: reduce the cooldown of divine steed by 3 seconds everytime you spend holy power.
    Problem is that when you fight against a class that can kite you a lot - this talent is pretty pointless.
    And when you are able to fight targets that spends HoPo, chances are you don't really need to use it a whole lot since you are already at the target.

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Sigxy the Lemming View Post
    Problem is that when you fight against a class that can kite you a lot - this talent is pretty pointless.
    And when you are able to fight targets that spends HoPo, chances are you don't really need to use it a whole lot since you are already at the target.
    1 ranged attack instead of 3 + less mobility + no seal of justice 4u here's a long cooldown slow + no DOT = wtf were they thinking?

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    1 ranged attack instead of 3 + less mobility + no seal of justice 4u here's a long cooldown slow + no DOT = wtf were they thinking?
    possibly either:
    a) "that's some good shit, pass it up"
    or
    b) just for lulz because lol padalins

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Shnider View Post
    Retribution is one of the most stable specs in legion in terms of secondary stats.

    The playstyle however needs some tweaks. Here are some of my suggestings:

    -Redesign Holy Wrath: Deals a massive amount of holy damage in a 5 yards radius around the paladin. 1 minute cooldown. This will make HW extremly useful in AOE burst situations.
    Kill trash button as a final tier talent? It's probably useful but I see zero synergy with the rest of the class which makes it super boring in my book.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shnider View Post
    -Remove Crusade ‘i know it’s a radical idea but it’s the main reason why we can’t have nice things’ Replace it with Inquisition. Inquisition is is a holy power spender that increases your damage and haste by 3%. Duration increases with more holy power spending. Increase paladin damage overall to bring it on par with other dps specs.
    We had this one already, in cata, and it was not the greatest thing ever, like I wouldn't mind getting some sort of inquisition back but instead of costing us a finisher it should be applied differently, like if you play your cards correctly you should always have it up.

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by Grogplus View Post
    We had this one already, in cata, and it was not the greatest thing ever, like I wouldn't mind getting some sort of inquisition back but instead of costing us a finisher it should be applied differently, like if you play your cards correctly you should always have it up.
    It was OK, but we also had 3 DPS cooldowns back then as well: Holy Avenger, Guardian of Ancient Kings and Avenging Wrath. Why they took 2 out of our 3 away, I'll never know tbh.

  9. #149
    Pit Lord Sigxy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    1 ranged attack instead of 3 + less mobility + no seal of justice 4u here's a long cooldown slow + no DOT = wtf were they thinking?
    This is kinda why I would love to have Mastery reworked so that your holy power damage abilities deals extra damage - 50% is instant, 50% is a DoT. Stacks. When you use Judgment, the dot 'explodes' into instant damage for a bit extra, possibly even work as an AoE (Dunno about that though) and that way, if people think they can run away from being judged: THEY. ARE. WRONG.

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    To be fair, they took almost everyone's cooldowns away. Most classes only have 1 cooldown at the 2/3m mark. What we COULD use is a rotational ability at the 30s mark that is interactive; Wake short of does that but it's slated to replace Holy Wrath.
    We had that in Inquisition, and it "wasn't fun" and "everyone hated it", so we got the rotation we have today. Inq is one of those things that would actually make sense as a talent; however Ret never got the "gameplay changing" talents most specs got, we just got a bunch of single target/AoE choices and a final row with a talent essentially set in stone.

  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    ROFL

    You think PALADINS will get development

    YOu think another spec is warrented?

    It's been 14 years and the still havnt even given Retribution Paladins more than an after thought of development.


    I'll tell you how Paladin feedback will go in beta

    hundreds of pages of feedback ignored and a failed design goes live that was "unforseen consequences" by the developers that was posted countless times during beta.

    Just like the last 14 years every single time
    this is what i am thinking.
    I am SICK AND TIRED of blizzard not giving a shit or messing about, i have played this class since TBC and only in WOLTK it was decent, that is 1 year and a half.
    Saddly i think i am ready to reroll

  12. #152
    So I had a lot of free time at my job's graveyard shift last night so I went ahead and really put some thought into a possibly decent build for ret in BfA. This will cover everything from Basic abilities to PvP talents. I'll do this in 3 separate posts.

    /////////////////////////Baseline Spells///////////////////////////

    Mastery: Divine Purpose: Increases the duration of Avenging Wrath by x%, in addition your finishers have an x% chance of granting the use of a free one.

    The Paladin can now hold 6 Holy Power.

    Devotion Aura: Reduces damage by 5% instead of increasing armor by 10%.

    Judgement: 45 sec CD. Places a debuff on the target which increases TV's crit chance by 100% for 8 seconds. Judgement damage is always a crit.

    Crusader Strike: same

    Blade of Justice: 20 yard range, generates 3 HoPo.

    Wake of Ashes: Same

    Templar's Verdict: same

    Avenging Wrath: Same

    Divine Storm: same

    Consecration: Now baseline. Standing in consecration turns BoJ into Divine Hammer.

    Divine Steed: now a 1 min cd but removes slows and roots.

    Falling Hammer: New Spell. 8-30 yd range. Teleports above the target and slams down, dealing x% holy damage divided among all enemies within 8 yards and slowing them down for 50%.

    Repentance: Baseline

    Hammer of Justice: Same

    Hand of Hindrance: Redesigned. No CD but costs 1 HoPo.

    Blessing of Freedom: same.

    Blessing of Protection: Same. Returns to pacifying the target.

    Blessing of Sacrifice: Returns to ret. Shares a 20 sec CD with blessing of protection.

    Divine Shield: Once again penalizes the paladin by reducing all damage by 90%.

    Lay on Hands: Same

    Cleanse: Same

    Flash of Light: Same. Killing a target that grants honor or Exp now makes your next Flash of Light instant and heal for 100%.

    Word of Glory: Old version Returns to ret's toolkit.

    Rebuke: Same

    Retribution Passive: Same. The paladin's overall damage output is not balanced around this bonus.

    Shield of Vengeance: is now a passive effect. Activates when the paladin is brought to 20% HP.

    Divine Protection: Returns to ret's toolkit.

    Redemption: Same

    Hand of Reckoning: Same

    Greater Blessings Grants powerful single target buffs to a friendly target. Not Castable in combat. Only one type of Greater Blessing can be active on any one player at a given time. Duplicate Greater Blessings cannot be active simultaneously.

    Greater Blessing of Light: Increases all healing recieved by x%

    Greater Blessing of Kings: Absorbs x damage every 6 seconds.

    Greater Blessing of Justice: Increases Movement speed by 10%

    Greater Blessing of Resolve: Reduces CC duration by x%

    Greater Blessing of Hindrance: All offensive attacks reduce enemie movement speed by 50%.

    //////////////////////////////Talents///////////////////////////////


    Tier 15:

    Divine Tempest: Every 2 seconds increases Divine Storm's damage and radius by x% stacking 30 times. In addition you Divine Storm now projects forward 20 yards, also healing party members by x%

    Execution Sentence: 30 yard range, undispellable, costs 3 HoPo but does not consume. Places a debuff on the target which ticks x% holy damage to all enemies near 10 yards, increasing as the debuff expires. Spell culminates in a final burst which splashes around the target.

    Blazing Radiance: Deals heavy AoE radiant damage around the Paladin for 10 seconds and increases versatility by x%. 20 sec CD Replaces Consecration.

    Divine Hammer is now a seperate spell which shares a CD with Blade of Justice.

    Tier 30:

    The Fires of Justice: Same

    Zeal: Same

    Greater Judgement: Judgements Duration is doubled and now effects all abilities.

    Tier 45:

    Fist of Justice: same

    Blinding Light: Same

    Improved Repentance: Repentance is now an instant cast. 15 sec CD.

    Tier 60:

    Virtues's Blade: Redesigned. Casting BoJ now increases your Mastery, Crit, or Haste, which ever is higher.

    Blade of Wrath: Same

    Templar's Blade: Your BoJ/DH causes your next Templar's Verdict/Divine Storm to cost 2 less HoPo

    Tier 75:

    Justicar's Vengeance: Same. Is effected by mastery.

    Eye for an Eye: Reduces all damage by 35% and reflects x% of all direct damage received. 1 Min CD. Replaces Divine Protection.

    Last Words: Your Word of Glory heals more and no Longer costs HoPo but has a 30 sec Cd. 2charges

    Tier 90:

    Cavalier: Same

    Pursuit of Justice: Increases Movement Speed by 15% and an additional 5% per HoPo stored. Does not stack with Greater Blessing of Justice.

    Emancipate: Returns as a talent

    Tier 100:

    Templar's Conviction: Your Templar's Verdict and Divine Storm increase the damage of your next TV and DS by 15% for 4 seconds.

    Crusade: Same

    Storm of Ashes: Wake of Ashes now has a 20 sec CD and 2 charges.

    ///////////////////////////////PvP Talents////////////////////////////

    Tier 1: Unchanged

    Tier 2:
    Unchanged

    Tier 3:

    Jurisdiction: Same

    Unbound Freedom:
    Redesigned. Blessing of Freedom now has 2 charges and is undispellable in addition to increasing speed by 30%.

    Law and Order:
    If your Hand of Hindrance is removed or dispelled, your HoPo is refunded. BoJ/DH cause Hindrance for 3 seconds.

    Tier 4:

    Holy Ritual: Redesigned. Your Greater Blessings can now be cast in combat.

    Blessing of Sanctuary: Same

    Luminescence: When you or a party member drop below 35% HP your next Flash of light is instant and heals for 100%. Can occur every 40 sec.

    Tier 5:

    Vengeance Aura: Same

    Seraphim's Blessing: Same

    Divine Punisher: Your Divine Shield has a 3 min cd and no longer penalizes your damage.

    Tier 6:

    Hammer of Reckoning: Same but buffed up

    Judgement of Truth: Judgement generates 5 HoPo.

    Law bringer: Hammer of Justice Deals Massive Holy damage.
    Last edited by Varx; 2017-11-27 at 02:26 PM.

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    No, inquisition was not that at all. It was a buff you had to maintain. I honestly did not mind it; I made a WA and Inq started flashing when it was time to use it and that was that. I would not mind inquisition but then again our rotation now has enough buttons to not need it.

    What I'd like is the chest legendary to be a spec passive (or in general, some reason to use DS as a proc for ST) and maybe Seraphim back; a short duration, short cooldown buff that changes your playstyle.
    Tbh, i liked Seraphim more than Inq.... It was just a bit more intersting, and it made me think of when to spend it... Unlike Inq where you only pressed when it was off


    Madness will consume you!!!

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by killwithpwr View Post
    Tbh, i liked Seraphim more than Inq.... It was just a bit more intersting, and it made me think of when to spend it... Unlike Inq where you only pressed when it was off
    If you only pressed Inquisition when it was off.. you weren't using it optimally. :|

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    If you only pressed Inquisition when it was off.. you weren't using it optimally. :|
    I dont remember exactly how it worked, nor was i a great player in MoP when i just came back from a long hiatus... I remember something like waiting untill the buff had ~2-3 seconds left and then press Inq again...

    Thats not the point tho, the point is Inq was much more boring than Seraphim to me...


    Madness will consume you!!!

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by EternalBany View Post
    this is what i am thinking.
    I am SICK AND TIRED of blizzard not giving a shit or messing about, i have played this class since TBC and only in WOLTK it was decent, that is 1 year and a half.
    Saddly i think i am ready to reroll
    If you heal/tank pally is fine. If you DPS you should have re-rolled 10 years ago mate. Ret has been hot garbage 90% of the time since Wrath.

  17. #157
    I want so badly for my dream of Paladari Zandalins to become reality, but I shant hold my breathe: my time would be better utilized condemning myself to an eternity of blood elf.
    I want to sword and board as a holy paladin; however, Ion said that artifact transmog shall be tied to, most likely, the spec itself -- so holy paladin would have access only to our 2H mace. This seems a contrary decision for so many specs (feral druid, resto shaman fist weapon, guardian druid fist weapons) so I am hoping that we can access our other artifacts for transmog as well.
    I would also love for Blizzard to at least acknowledge that holy paladins are going to get their spell graphics updated ... seeing as how the only vast improvement we've had, Light of Dawn update, was changed back to its original in legion.

    But above all else, please oh please let me be a Zandalari troll; so much of the enjoyment for BfA seems to center around the allied races and it seems in poor taste to leave out specific classes for the factions. On that note, my heart bleeds for the alliance druids too.

  18. #158
    My favorite version of Seals would be a semi-powerful cooldown (not as powerful as AW) that you activated for short bursts. So if AW is a 3 minute cooldown where you become a juggernaut, a Seal would have a 1 minute cooldown and a 10-15 sec duration with a moderate buff depending on the situation, all accompanied by that nostalgic aesthetic effect of you "powering up".

  19. #159
    Deleted
    Why does this thread have the word "hopes" in it? if you played the class long enough you would know the folly of having hope - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8v9Np4mh3tc if the past is anything to go by holy will still be insnaely strong. prot will be very weak as it has been for some time now in legion or be borderline OP as it has been in the past and ret will get fucked in the ass without any lube AGAIN for 1298379182379821739th time.

  20. #160
    The Lightbringer
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    Are we Holy Pallies going to go back to one-hand+shield weapon? I get used to my lovable two-hand weapon and its glorious transmogs. Maybe Blizzard will spare us and give two-hand weapon an additional "armor" stat specifically for Holy Pallies? I hope for it. We will be able to choose between 1h+shield and 2h without the loss in efficiency. I think that would be a nice compromise for all HP players.

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