Raqqas dirty secret

[sarahtasher]

Remember when the Iraqi army was disbanded? I remember that day...that was the day that more blood would be spilled the next decade.

Basically prepare for another civil war in the next ten years, because of this incompetence.

The most critical issue in the Iraqi army is how sectarian it is. The previous Iraqi army was loathed by Kurds and Shias and I have huge doubts about the combatibity of Sunni Arabs (the appel of Saddam army) against the largely Sunni Arab ISIS.

[Keosen]

Was it the right decision? Probably not, there probably wasn't a right decision. War isn't always about right decisions and wrong decisions, it is about having a moral line you can't cross, and a whole lot of gray area between that and the ideal world you want. In a war like Syria, the targets are mixed in with innocents in huge numbers. Internet tough guys have no problem writing off the lives of thousands, but the people that have to actually make those decisions aren't so cavalier.

Under these circumstances, I think it would have been morally defensible to torch the city and everyone in it, but being defensible isn't the same as being right. That would have been the wrong decision too, you don't get a choice that leaves you feeling good about your day at work in times like that.

Are you seriously bringing US government morality on the table as a defensive argument of this decision?
Historically proven US government it's the most immoral thing this world have ever seen.

[Rennadrel]

4000 less scum on this planet would be better than 4000 terrorists lurking in the shadows. Good job boys, in one fell swoop you have put the lives of millions at risk.

[rogueMatthias]

It wasn't 4000 terrorists.

The story makes it pretty clear that it was about 250 terrorists and all the other people were their wives and children etc. If you think they should share the same punishment is down to you.

Has anyone seen Raqqa recently?







Trump and Obama both have shown no care at all for civilians there and thousands have died. When the full extent of the death that's occurred becomes public, people are going to be horrified.

250 Terrorists escaping is bad, and yes it does present a larger security risk still, but I'm not going to admonish actions that are actually trying to reduce civilian casualties.

Even in regards to their families leaving with them - The way I see it these are non-combatants, a thousand or so children, and I'm happy for them to be leaving the centre of the conflict.

At the end of the day, and 8 year old kid, with a terrorist for a father is still an 8 year old kid. I don't think it's worth it.


This is Nora, the daughter of Anwar al-Awlaki, who was shot in the neck in a US raid in Yemen and bled out over 2 hours.

[Thekri]

Are you seriously bringing US government morality on the table as a defensive argument of this decision?
Historically proven US government it's the most immoral thing this world have ever seen.

Well, obvious bait aside... The US government is made of people, some of those people are terrible, some are not.

[ParanoiD84]

It wasn't 4000 terrorists.

The story makes it pretty clear that it was about 250 terrorists and all the other people were their wives and children etc. If you think they should share the same punishment is down to you.

Has anyone seen Raqqa recently?







Trump and Obama both have shown no care at all for civilians there and thousands have died. When the full extent of the death that's occurred becomes public, people are going to be horrified.

250 Terrorists escaping is bad, and yes it does present a larger security risk still, but I'm not going to admonish actions that are actually trying to reduce civilian casualties.

Even in regards to their families leaving with them - The way I see it these are non-combatants, a thousand or so children, and I'm happy for them to be leaving the centre of the conflict.

At the end of the day, and 8 year old kid, with a terrorist for a father is still an 8 year old kid. I don't think it's worth it.


This is Nora, the daughter of Anwar al-Awlaki, who was shot in the neck in a US raid in Yemen and bled out over 2 hours.

Terrorists do love to keep children around, shows how much they care about them when they know they could get bombed at any time.

- - - Updated - - -

'Along the route, many people we spoke to said they heard coalition aircraft, sometimes drones, following the convoy.

From the cab of his truck, Abu Fawzi watched as a coalition warplane flew overhead, dropping illumination flares, which lit up the convoy and the road ahead.

" When the last of the convoy were about to cross, a US jet flew very low and deployed flares to light up the area. IS fighters shat their pants.”

The coalition now confirms that while it did not have its personnel on the ground, it monitored the convoy from the air.

Past the last SDF checkpoint, inside IS territory - a village between Markada and Al-Souwar - Abu Fawzi reached his destination. His lorry was full of ammunition and IS fighters wanted it hidden.

When he finally made it back to safety, he was asked by the SDF where he’d dumped the goods.

“We showed them the location on the map and he marked it so uncle Trump can bomb it later,” he says.

But IS didn’t stay put for long. Freed from Raqqa, where they were surrounded, some of the group's most-wanted members have now spread far and wide across Syria and beyond. '

Must be fun being a jihadi, loosing on all fronts and being constantly scared and paranoid about air strikes, i like it though they should be scared as there is nothing they can do about it.

[Deleted]

Any field commander would have made this deal - it was a good deal. Helped securing the objective (the city), conserved forces (the siege was bloody) and honestly: good chance, that the fled wackos would become somebody else's problem - if not, at least they will be not in Raqqa.
And IMHO, the higher ups had been fine with the decision too: if the grunts on the ground are happy, they are happy, and somewhere, sometime, someone will find them and kill them (they could have even organized a surprise party near the unloading point, with specops and drones). Nothing of value have been lost.

[Independent voter]

RUSSIA'S 'EVIDENCE' THAT THE U.S. IS HELPING ISIS IS FOOTAGE FROM A 2015 COMPUTER GAME

Russia’s Ministry of Defense has provoked a torrent of mockery from its own followers after it published “irrefutable evidence” that the U.S. is in league with the Islamic State militant group (ISIS) that turned out to be footage from a 2015 video game.

Russia, which has backed Bashar al-Assad during the war in Syria, has often been critical of U.S. operations there, repeatedly claiming that U.S. forces are at best ineffectual at fighting ISIS or at worst in cahoots with jihadist groups.

After a series of allegations, Moscow decided to publish video evidence which it claims shows how close Washington is to the group it is officially fighting.

http://www.newsweek.com/russias-evid...er-game-710474

[Nazerdam]

Imagine, for a moment, somebody else made this deal. It'd be a shitshow around here. People saying, accusing others to support isis, but hey, when the precious kurds and usa do this kind of things, one after another, it is just a goooood deal. Sod off mmo-champion..

[Auxora]

At the time it happened I kind of wondered if there had been a deal. Because it didn't make a lot of sense that there was video of dozens of buses with ISIS fighters lined up in a convoy with thousands of fighters leaving Raqqa in the middle of the day. Normally you'd have thought that would have been a perfect "highway of death" repeat (as morbid as that is) where a couple fighter bombers could have easily wiped a very large bulk of ISIS in one run. So it seemed pretty obvious that someone made an agreement with them to leave safely. As far as who made the deal and whether it was Russia, Syria, Iraq, the US or UK, who knows. Most likely the US and Russia were both in on the deal or else 1 of the 2 would have bombed the convoy.

As for it being a dirty secret, that's tough to call. If there were no deal likely hundreds of anti-ISIS troops would have died taking Raqqa building by building, and ISIS would have eventually slipped out of town at night or mixed in with refugees after killing as many as they could along the way. A lot of civilians would have probably died in that process also. So as bad as letting them leave is, I can understand the thinking behind it. Hard to ask soldiers to give their lives for a town the enemy is willing to leave.

[Deleted]

It wasn't 4000 terrorists.

The story makes it pretty clear that it was about 250 terrorists and all the other people were their wives and children etc. If you think they should share the same punishment is down to you.

Has anyone seen Raqqa recently?







Trump and Obama both have shown no care at all for civilians there and thousands have died. When the full extent of the death that's occurred becomes public, people are going to be horrified.

250 Terrorists escaping is bad, and yes it does present a larger security risk still, but I'm not going to admonish actions that are actually trying to reduce civilian casualties.

Even in regards to their families leaving with them - The way I see it these are non-combatants, a thousand or so children, and I'm happy for them to be leaving the centre of the conflict.

At the end of the day, and 8 year old kid, with a terrorist for a father is still an 8 year old kid. I don't think it's worth it.


This is Nora, the daughter of Anwar al-Awlaki, who was shot in the neck in a US raid in Yemen and bled out over 2 hours.

Yeah, I shall remember it when another ISIS fanatic is killing our children. I will have such a fantastic view of the corpses from my high horse

[Deleted]

Good call imo.

Not that I dont think they have to be destroyed completely, but this way they at least wont take those last civilians hostage and it doesnt take even more lives having to fight building to building.

[McFuu]

Seems a far trade, why lose more people and risk more lives taking a city when they can just leave. They will likely go elsewhere, but at least their families can't look and say that they weren't treated fairly every once in a while.

[Deleted]

Glassing it would've been ideal. Usually don't have to do it twice.