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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Swalload View Post
    Ok many points here to fix cuz you're wrong. This is not an opinion so pointless to argue, just learn and move on.

    1. The point of purists is not that they think changing the game will make it worse, it's that they know that if you modify something, it becomes something else. What asked for was vanilla, not modified vanilla.

    2. Depending on the changes made the core identity can be tremendously altered. Sure if they fix the "stuck in looting" bug it won't change that much and everybody will be happy. But making ret, disc or arcane a viable spec would completely change the game. They were unplayed specs in vanilla and should stay unplayed specs. The line between acceptable changes and destroying the game can be very thin.

    3. Of course it's not gonna be the same authentic experience, when it released we will be 15 years older than we were when we played it. There's absolutely nothing the game can do to recreate that experience because WE as players have changed more than the game did. We will never re-live the same experience but at least if the game is not changed no one will be able to blame the game.

    There's 2 very important points to releasing Classic as close to vanilla as possible:
    1. Give people what they asked for.
    2. A reality check for many people even among those who asked for vanilla that they in fact cannot handle what it really was and their memory played games on them. Also to shut up people who kept saying "vanilla was so much better than this" since like forever. I mean some people still think classes had more abilities in vanilla than they do in Legion, bunch of delusional fucks.
    You've made it clear in every thread I make that you post in that you don't care about Vanilla, you only post here to try and ensure that it doesn't become more popular than retail. Nothing constructive about your discussion points at all and you shouldn't be allowed to post here imo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Craaazyyy View Post
    you realize that more ppl want vanilla exactly how it was.. maybe not on this website(but perhaps even here), cuz this website is full of players that started playing wow in wod or whatever..

    also alot of ppl that wanted vanilla dont even play current wow/read forums/reddit at all

    when you read every thread about changes that ppl want there are 20 ppl that telling them to stfu for each one of the crying ppl that want something changed
    That's because the majority of this forum is made up of people who play retail who have no interest in Classic being as successful as it can be. Go and look at the Classic forum on the official WoW site if you want a balanced view. For some reason though you need an active sub to post on it, which is backwards as many of the people who played classic, don't.

  2. #22
    I am sure many people are going to love 14 year old ice cream, hell people eat and pay a small fortune for ambergris, which is petrified whale vomit.
    "Privilege is invisible to those who have it."

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by duannyboy View Post
    You've made it clear in every thread I make that you post in that you don't care about Vanilla, you only post here to try and ensure that it doesn't become more popular than retail. Nothing constructive about your discussion points at all and you shouldn't be allowed to post here imo.

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    That's because the majority of this forum is made up of people who play retail who have no interest in Classic being as successful as it can be. Go and look at the Classic forum on the official WoW site if you want a balanced view. For some reason though you need an active sub to post on it, which is backwards as many of the people who played classic, don't.
    Nah I'm part of the few who knows what vanilla was and will play it for what it was. I also know what is gonna happen, it pisses a lot of people off but facts don't care about their feelings. If Blizzard only reads my post they will say "well yeah obviously, so we need to make changes to make money" and we'll end up with a shit product obviously. But people want shit, look at the music that sells. So I guess let's ask for more shit to spend our money on instead of well made products that don't try to please the stupidity of the masses.

  4. #24
    Thank you for telling me exactly what I think I want, but don't.
    You literally saved my life, bro.

    This thread should be titled: 17 motives why you think you want to eat 14 year old ice cream, but you don't. #12 will shock you.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Swalload View Post
    Nah I'm part of the few who knows what vanilla was and will play it for what it was. I also know what is gonna happen, it pisses a lot of people off but facts don't care about their feelings. If Blizzard only reads my post they will say "well yeah obviously, so we need to make changes to make money" and we'll end up with a shit product obviously. But people want shit, look at the music that sells. So I guess let's ask for more shit to spend our money on instead of well made products that don't try to please the stupidity of the masses.
    You seem like a very cynical, unhappy person. I'm sorry that you hate "the masses" so much but "the masses" obviously DIDN'T enjoy the changes made to WoW because they unsubbed, in droves. However, that doesn't mean that some of the changes weren't improvements.

  6. #26
    ANOTHER hater that cant be on his games and let people alone

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by duannyboy View Post
    You seem like a very cynical, unhappy person. I'm sorry that you hate "the masses" so much but "the masses" obviously DIDN'T enjoy the changes made to WoW because they unsubbed, in droves. However, that doesn't mean that some of the changes weren't improvements.
    Other masses also stayed. Remember that most changes were things that were asked for by people who had been playing WoW since the beginning. LFD was HUGELY appreciated when it came out, people were having serious hardons for that feature. I can't remember anyone ever saying "I wanna go back to wasting my time in chat again" when it came out.

    I may be cynical, not unhappy tho, life is great. I'm mostly a realist person, my opinion differs from the message I spread about this subject, before opinions don't matter, they're literally a waste of time.
    People think I want Classic to fail, absolutely not, I want it to be successful and as authentic as vanilla as possible. Which I'm aware is too much to ask for, if it's really vanilla it won't be enjoyable enough for most people. To want Classic to be successful is to want Blizzard to change vanilla, because it will be a 15 years old game when it opens. So I face the fact that it will either be a true vanilla with not so many people playing it after a month or a more successful game that is not vanilla. Here's hoping people don't force Blizzard to trash it too much.

  8. #28
    The Insane Rorcanna's Avatar
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    Wanting the game for what it was back then =/= thinking they'll magically time travel and recreate the experiences 100%.

    Give them their Classic servers to play on, fix gamebreaking bugs but otherwise leave it alone for people to enjoy at their own leisure...

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrven View Post
    I am sure many people are going to love 14 year old ice cream, hell people eat and pay a small fortune for ambergris, which is petrified whale vomit.
    Chalk that down as a fact I really didn't need nor want to know... Holy shit people are disgusting...

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    Quote Originally Posted by duannyboy View Post
    You seem like a very cynical, unhappy person. I'm sorry that you hate "the masses" so much but "the masses" obviously DIDN'T enjoy the changes made to WoW because they unsubbed, in droves. However, that doesn't mean that some of the changes weren't improvements.
    Millions of people are "masses" of people.

    This game has 100+ million accounts made, yet never retained much more than a tenth of that at any given point in time. People using sub numbers to confirm their bias against Live and for Classic/TBC/WOTLK/Whatever servers doesn't change the fact that millions upon millions have tried, left, returned and stuck with the game and it is soon celebrating a 13th anniversary whilst being a billion-dollar revenue beast, very much unique to the MMORPG genre.
    Have you ever noticed how Vanilla promoters always have to point to a "flaw" of Live, usually imagined at that, in order to make Classic look good?

    Guess they're not so confident in their "superior version of the game" after all.

  9. #29
    Both sides have legitimate arguments. Neither side is wrong for wanting what they want. Stop trying to make purists or people who want an updated version look bad. You're the one being cynical OP. They should release two different types of servers, a pure server and a updated server.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Swalload View Post

    my opinion differs from the message I spread about this subject
    I believe this is the crux of the problem as it leaves your input feeling unauthentic. Many people on this forum are spreading a message on behalf of what they think Classic players want and not actually what they themselves want.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swalload View Post
    So I face the fact that it will either be a true vanilla with not so many people playing it after a month or a more successful game that is not vanilla. Here's hoping people don't force Blizzard to trash it too much.
    If you don't care about it either way though surely you would want classic to appeal to and make as many people happy as possible?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Polygons View Post
    Both sides have legitimate arguments. Neither side is wrong for wanting what they want. Stop trying to make purists or people who want an updated version look bad. You're the one being cynical OP. They should release two different types of servers, a pure server and a updated server.
    They should but this is unlikely to ever happen as it further fragments the development resources, so in my opinion there is no point discussing it as an option. Rest assured though many of the people cynical of changes will be thankful for them if Classic is done right.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by duannyboy View Post
    Prefacing this with the fact I played vanilla when it was current and will play Classic whatever it ends up as.

    For me in regards to Classic WoW a purist is pretty much synonymous with a cynicist. They believe that starting to make changes to the game will make it a worse experience.

    They can not conceive the fact that a 14 year old game can be improved upon whilst maintaining it's core identity. This is through a lack of faith, mainly in the community to decide the right changes.

    Unfortunately, some of them have also since then been playing THE EXACT SAME GAME start to finish over and over again. It's not an authentic vanilla experience for them anymore but maybe that's not what they want. Maybe they would prefer an untouched game because they've played it more than anyone else and get a huge e-peen from being the best at it.





    If Classic WoW is a copy and paste of vanilla it's not going to be the equivalent to "an authentic vanilla experience", it will be a degraded vanilla experience because we've all played it before, 14 years ago. To be an authentic vanilla experience it has to capture our imaginations as the original did.
    Everquest Classic is a 20yo game and still gets enough subs to keep it running..... They keep classic servers and even restard them allowing players to roll over to newer servers and start over every once in a while... so not sure where your coming from,
    moshotsNew Main
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  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by duannyboy View Post
    They should but this is unlikely to ever happen as it further fragments the development resources, so in my opinion there is no point discussing it as an option. Rest assured though many of the people cynical of changes will be thankful for them if Classic is done right.
    Your idea of classic being done "right" is subjective and pretty selfish

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Moshots View Post
    Everquest Classic is a 20yo game and still gets enough subs to keep it running..... They keep classic servers and even restard them allowing players to roll over to newer servers and start over every once in a while... so not sure where your coming from,
    Exactly, he's missing the entire point. Blizzard shouldn't make changes, the reason for doing this is to let people play the game in its original sense, see the world how it was in 2004 and play the game from back then. For nostalgia purposes, as well as, allowing players that came in Cataclysm to experience the original game.

    People don't want to play on private servers having to deal with the frequent crashes, Blizzard sending cease and desist and having their entire effort erased. They want original vanilla servers, supported by Blizzard on their infrastructure. Fix the backend system so Vanilla can run smoothly on modern infrastructure and just roll it out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Polygons View Post
    Your idea of classic being done "right" is subjective and pretty selfish
    The issue is they did it right the first time, so there is no need to change. WoW wouldn't have became a massive success and turned into the most popoular MMO in history, if Vanilla didn't go how it did. Why mess with what already worked?

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by AzazeltheRuthless View Post
    The issue is they did it right the first time, so there is no need to change. WoW wouldn't have became a massive success and turned into the most popoular MMO in history, if Vanilla didn't go how it did. Why mess with what already worked?
    I'm not the one saying we should.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by AzazeltheRuthless View Post
    The issue is they did it right the first time, so there is no need to change. WoW wouldn't have became a massive success and turned into the most popoular MMO in history, if Vanilla didn't go how it did. Why mess with what already worked?
    Times changes and so did the game. The game absolutely had to change. If WoW had never had an expansion, or made many of the changes they did, it wouldn't be a relevant game anymore.

    People can play in their time bubble if they want, although probably only a couple thousand will stay for a lengthy amount of time.

  16. #36
    There are certain things that simply will not be the same as classic. Do you think they aren't going to let you buy back items from the vendor or item restore? Of course not, the number of GMs they'd need to hire to handle the excess of tickets that that feature alone eliminates should give you the answer. It's going to be a classic experience with minor improvements to systems that were a colossal failure at the time without introducing any new features that would drastically diminish the core identity.

  17. #37
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...version-of-WOW
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...nd-Pragmatists
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...or-the-purists
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...nowball-effect

    This is the op's 5th crack at this topic in a week. That piled on top of the other threads about this. We're not being really strict about one thread per topic but five by the same user in a week is too much.

    Closing.
    Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2017-11-14 at 11:16 PM.
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