Tier Sets in BfA, Developer Interviews, Hotfixes Nov 14, Blue Posts, Lineage 2

[Deleted]

There are few words for how disappointed I am with this change.

Blizzard needs to aknowledge that there are, in fact, those of us who also hate Mythic + as a system. Those of us who don't think adding random affixes that unfairly punish certain classes/specs just for the sake of added difficulty isn't fun.

With this change, I assume that... at best... 50% of BiS gear will be from raids and 50% will be from Mythic +. This means that, no matter what, if you want to partake in high end raiding you'll be forced into doing copious amounts of M+ because of titanforging. It also means you'll be forced to run a majority of the same keys in order to target the slots you want to earn.

I always like that once I had Mythic tier, I had at least some amount of 'best-in-slot'. It was a comforting feeling. At the moment on my balance druid I have 4 piece Mythic Tier 20 and 2 piece mythic tier 19. I have two legendaries and an Arcano Crystral. These are all BiS. this leaves me with One ring, one belt, one neck and one trinket slot to fill. I was fortunate enough to get a Tarnished Sentinel's Medallion so this leaves me with 3 slots to fill. Oh, and boots, 4 slots to fill.

In Legion, secondary stats are almost unfathomably powerful compared to how they used to be. Going as far as being better than primary stats. Forgoing my opinion on whether or not this is good for the game, the point remains that it makes a piece with 'the perfect stats' completely incomparable to a piece with the worst stats. In a raid, there will usually be at most 3 pairs of boots that drop (one to match each set esthetic). Let's consider how many permutations of secondary stats there could be with the 4 stats we have, that number comes to 6.

Thus how I got to my number of 50% of gear.

I was thinking of rerolling to hunter for the next expansion, but this system means I can't possibly do that with my limited time to play. No matter how good of a hunter I am (I'm mid 80s on WCL for hunters, nothing spectacular), I don't have the sheer playtime to sit there being spam declined from groups all night.

Especially at the start of the expansion, when M+ is truly challenging, the stigma around classes that are considered "bad for M+" or "bad for this week's affixes" makes the game practically unplayable for these classes under the new system.

I don't mean to be melodramatic but this change more than likely signals the extension of the break I'm currently on to extend at least past the first tier of next expansion. I'll wait for the Relinquished vendors to come out. It'll actually be the first time I don't play an expansion on launch. =/

I just can't support World of Titanforgecraft and that's where we're heading more and more, it's both frustrating and disappointing to me that they took this design path but I do understand it. WoW is a business for them and the players who put the most hours in make their game look good. Maybe I'm just old and the game isn't geared towards people who can only put in 3-4 hours a night (which I already thought was more than most people).

Truth is, if you want to play any other game, 3-4 hours won't be enough any more. 1/3 of that, if you're lucky, will be looking for keys and 2/3 will be running keys and you can draw a swift X through all other content.

Again, very disappointing.

What you say is total bullshit. Mythic+ is the best way for gear catch up. If you even have friends who will get you through lvl10-15 runs right after hitting 110, its a full faceroll race to the current hc/myhic level gear. From there you can have your own key and spam decline others if you want to for your "max level" key runs. I dont know if taking set bonuses is good though, they are the last remaining incentives to find a guild and raid with them. I havent raided in this expansion, only pugged the curve achies, yet my ilvl was always at the same level as mythic palyers ilvl. Mythic+ is already an alternative to raiding, with set bonuses gone the mythic raiding will decline even more. I dont know, i dont give a shit, i dont like to suffer because 1 of the 20 people will almost guaranteed to fuck up something...

[Easo]

Collecting a tier gave a tangible goal with some cool benefits.
I am not sure, personally, that tier's becoming just visual sets is the best option.

[Mamut]

"Lets tie ability bonuses to AP 2.0"

This is an awful idea.

And current form is so great?

I have so many nontier pieces in my bag that dispaly 15-30% upgrade after simming and yet I cant use them because they would break my set and lower my dps. And I cant really use another slot for tier because other slot is occupied by BiS legendary (shoulders).

So maybe decision to move "set bonusses" to the new azerite system is not that bad idea?

[Garoh]

I disagree. True progress raiders (whether hc or mythic) don't go for just the loot and tier set. They go for the kill, gear is an extra to help the progress of the raid team.

Personally I welcome this change and I agree with Ion's reasons behind it. Giving up 10-15 or more ilvls and/or an optimal stat distribution (to feel the spec smoother to play) for a mere setbonus is out of question for me (having crit and no haste on an item as prot warrior, just feels awful, not to mention the possible ilvl difference - stamina, strength, armour).

Raid tier set bonuses would be more desirable and useful if we would still have reforging and stats wouldn't matter so much on a single item. Also the multiple sources of gearing is fine to nowadays standards. Admit it, you yourself like to have a few upgrades on each week than waiting for a single item for months.

This is my point, though. Like you said, progression raiders are there for the kill, but 4-6 weeks into progression when you've got AOTC, what's to keep your raiders motivated then? It used to be we had filling in that last BiS slot, or getting your last few tier pieces you finish your set. A good raid team wouldn't mind running over and over even when fully geared either to help the last couple of raiders fill in those spots. But what's to keep them there now?

I realize I'm in the minority here, as I raid lead a rather small group (6-7 core raiders and we pick up a few along the way). But it's disheartening to see the small groups get shafted over and over. We used to run heroic 10 mans back in the day, but my only hope of getting us into mythics now is to recruit, and Blizzard keeps taking away everything I have to keep my raiders from losing interest.

[Straamibuu]

I'll miss them personally, I did like the slight changes to the gameplay they offered.

But, at least they'll be no more "the next tier bonuses are worse than current" threads

[SkyTides]

I'm not looking forward to moving from 12 visually unique armor sets per tier to only 4, if that is what's being implied.

oh crap really? no I still deffo the full roster of unique sets, just with more raid visual theme

[Lizardo221]

For those complaining that this makes mythic raiders work more, I can say the same about how current raid sets force the best mythic plus people to raid. You would be out of your mind to not have tier and try to do a 21 key as dps. And lets not forget pvp while we are at it. A lot of pvpers still feel compelled to do non pvp because gear is much easier to get (and control what pieces you want).

Furthermore, for those who don't understand what is happening next expansion, and it looks like many of you still don't, we basically get evolving tier bonuses ALL EXPANSION. Several of your items will have tier bonuses that you pick from, combining effects. Removing the old tier bonus system was a design choice to avoid the painfully obvious redundancy of tier bonuses with the new system.

Lastly, you can get tier bonuses from LFR in the current game ... LFR? Is someone really going to cry and tell us how unique and special something is that you can get in LFR?!

[Deleted]

In my opinion this change is for casuals BUT they dont raiding anyway. LFR dont count. So whats the point? To make game more friendly to casuals because they are majority of community.

This change with riding sets sucks.

[Decyde]

No tier sets and the terrible titanforge system, casuals must be ecstatic while Raiders continue to quit in droves.

[subsidalos]

In my opinion this change is for casuals BUT they dont raiding anyway. LFR dont count. So whats the point? To make game more friendly to casuals because they are majority of community.

This change with riding sets sucks.

The game has been going the casual route for years what makes you think anything would change now?

[Tankorr]

The biggest question mark for me is if it's going to be one set per armor type, or if they will continue to make 12 distinct sets. It seems like it might be the former (which sucks), because there usually aren't enough bosses in a given raid to spread out the full appearances for 12 sets (especially given that there are a higher number of leather classes).

[Alayea]

Ion Hazzikostas thinks players by and large didn't like having slots "locked", but I didn't mind at all. Maybe I'm a relic of the past, but best-in-slot is what I enjoyed working towards -- and raid tier sets were the keystone. If I wanted to be changing things in and out constantly for every situation, I would be playing Diablo instead of WoW. (I don't know why I should be surprised, a lot of people from Diablo III moved over to WoW for Legion...)

No they arent new. they are in the game since week ago since argus opened.

If you silly dont believe me, try wowhead: "Added in patch 7.3.0.24539"

It was added in 7.3.0, but wasn't activated until now. So it's still effectively a new quest.

What you say is total <snip>. Mythic+ is the best way for gear catch up. If you even have friends who will get you through lvl10-15 runs right after hitting 110, its a full faceroll race to the current hc/myhic level gear. From there you can have your own key and spam decline others if you want to for your "max level" key runs. I dont know if taking set bonuses is good though, they are the last remaining incentives to find a guild and raid with them. I havent raided in this expansion, only pugged the curve achies, yet my ilvl was always at the same level as mythic palyers ilvl. Mythic+ is already an alternative to raiding, with set bonuses gone the mythic raiding will decline even more. I dont know, i dont give a <snip>, i dont like to suffer because 1 of the 20 people will almost guaranteed to <snip> up something...

Maybe I'm looking at Ilnezhara 's comment wrong, but I think you missed an essential point:

Blizzard needs to aknowledge that there are, in fact, those of us who also hate Mythic + as a system.

And bias disclaimer: I don't like M+. At all. I didn't even care for its Mythic predecessor from WoD, nor Challenge Modes. I wish none of them had ever been added. But I'm just one person, in the end.

[Kaver]

So we're basically getting dungeon sets in raids now?
Instead of having to design 12 different armor sets they now only need to design 4 (1 for each armor class).

Kind of sucks for the transmog mixing and matching.

Blizzard is constantly making changes which requires less work/balancing from their side.

1) Making talent trees simpler

2) Reducing the total amount of specs (Removing the warrior gladiator spec and only giving DHs one dps spec)

3) Removing 2h Frost Dk and 2h Enhancement as well as single-minded fury warriors (and then making excuses about class fantasy).

4) Removing set bonuses for every spec.

All these changes make the game more boring but the work for Blizzard easier.

I wouldn't be surprised if they in the future told us that we wouldn't get more new classes.

[GMZohar1]

Vanilla server should be exactly as Vanilla was (depending on the patch they choose) making changes to class balance and things that were not around at the time, no longer makes it a Vanilla server.....

- - - Updated - - -

Blizzard is constantly making changes which requires less work/balancing from their side.

1) Making talent trees simpler

2) Reducing the total amount of specs (Removing the warrior gladiator spec and only giving DHs one dps spec)

3) Removing 2h Frost Dk and 2h Enhancement as well as single-minded fury warriors (and then making excuses about class fantasy).

4) Removing set bonuses for every spec.

All these changes make the game more boring but the work for Blizzard easier.

I wouldn't be surprised if they in the future told us that we wouldn't get more new classes.

I agree with you. My Main was a WW Monk in MoP and in WoD, but during WoD and now Legion the class/spec has changed so much (removing of abilities) that the class is no longer fun. The spec has been simplified to no end, I feel like I am playing a Diablo 3 character when I play my WW Monk now. Even the stats in our character screen has been simplified big time. This is why I can't wait for the Vanilla server and other old school servers.

[Korru]

I wouldn't be surprised if they in the future told us that we wouldn't get more new classes.

I wouldn't be surprised if they in the next expansion told us that we wouldn't get more new expansions tbh, I got a feeling that they are intentionally trying to phase out raiding in favor of re-playable content like Mythic+ and Timewalking and they're going to downsize Mythic to 10 next expansion before WoW goes to maintenance mode.

[Explicit Teemo Nudes]

Quite the opposite, removing tiers from raiding creates a great filter mechanism.
Some people will stop feeling 'forced' to LFR, so their community should be better and less toxic now.
Phat Lewtz are everywhere so loot whores can fuck off from mythic progression.

Should result in improvements across the board.
The only people complaining are, unsurprisingly, loot whores.

LFR will be more toxic because less good players means more wipes and longer encounters because of low damage.

[Deleted]

Why doesnt surprise me that the dumbo lords of mmo c didn't understand the meaning of removing tier bonus=?

[therealbowser]

Wouldn't it make more sense to design tier set bonuses around utility/defenses in this case, or at the very least something generic that buffs everyone?

A big benefit to set bonuses is just the idea of completing a set. Which is a big deal. Without it, the only reason to have them is transmog, which is compelling for some, but not for most.

I personally am not upset by the removal of tier bonuses, but frankly it's a surprising decision. I am not certain they have completely thought this through.

[Deleted]

I like the tier set bonus change, as both casual in the past and mythic raider (full clears) nowadays. I'd rather equip whatever gear piece shows to be better than being disappointed seeing that it's gear the slot I use for either legendary or tier set bonus. It also helps making m+ dungeons pretty much an equivalent of raids, which I think is a good thing, I like having an option to choose what to do while also being rewarded for it (unless of course whatever titanforging changes they'll make will push mythic raiding to be the only way to gear up again)

[Deleted]

I like the tier set bonus change, as both casual in the past and mythic raider (full clears) nowadays. I'd rather equip whatever gear piece shows to be better than being disappointed seeing that it's gear the slot I use for either legendary or tier set bonus. It also helps making m+ dungeons pretty much an equivalent of raids, which I think is a good thing, I like having an option to choose what to do while also being rewarded for it (unless of course whatever titanforging changes they'll make will push mythic raiding to be the only way to gear up again)

So if somebody drop that set lets say, 900itm lvl and have 930pieces, he is FORCED to equip them to buff other people? How about no?


WE already have the huge issue of people that equip T19 or T20 lvl 900-910 even if they have 930++ to fill those slots, BUT the tier bonus is too strong, that is a bad way to play the game.

"Raiding myth" to feel forced to use the lvl normal-hero, set, no ty.