Is Trump a good businessman?

[Elba]

No, he is not.

[Celista]

Because of shady earnings? Tax evasion?

Well either way, I can't think of a positive reason why he wouldn't share them.

[Kalis]

Do you understand index funds and compound interest? All he would have had to do was invest what his father gave him in the stock market and hold, and he'd be worth three times more than his current worth.

How much would Trump be worth if he’d used index linked funds and maintained the same level of personal spending? If you can’t answer that, then you can’t claim he would be richer.

[Celista]

How much would Trump be worth if he’d used index linked funds and maintained the same level of personal spending? If you can’t answer that, then you can’t claim he would be richer.

You can math that out pretty easily, but you didn't state what his level of personal spending was.

[Kiri]

It's almost like family take care of each other. But a couple million and he's a billionaire. That doesn't just happen. Are you saying his dad gave him billions?

It doesn't just happen, aye. But I think the point to be made here is that it is much easier to make billions when you already start with millions. That is especially true in an LME like the US where predatory business models prevail. It takes a lot of capital to even get into the truly high-yield sectors, such as developing properties or the buying and selling of whole companies. The fact that he also had a very strong support net also helped, as it is easier to go into high risk, high reward ventures when you are not really risking anything. That also goes hand in hand with the other thing he was born with - the Trump name. He never needed to build a reputation as a successful or even just a rich person - people just assumed that from the beginning.

I am not saying that he is necessarily a bad businessman, I really don't know enough of his dealings to judge that. But I do know that turning millions into billions does not necessarily mean he has a great business acumen. Initial capital is incredibly important in the US. While people might say that you might be able to go from dishwasher to millionaire in the US, the percentage of people born to poor or just medium income families that actually become millionaires is very low. On the other hand, the percentage of children born to millionaires staying millionaires or becoming billionaires is much higher. Someone born in a low income household with the exact same capabilities as Trump would never make it as far as he had, that is just how the world is. That's why trying to make any statements based on net worth development etc. is pretty faulty. You would have to judge him by each individual deal and then sum that up to a cohesive evaluation.

[Kalis]

You can math that out pretty easily, but you didn't state what his level of personal spending was.

You made the claim that he’d have been richer, which you could only reasonably do by knowing his spending levels.

I don’t know his spending levels, so I haven’t made a claim about his business acumen, other than to say he is good at branding, which considering he has been an internationally famous New York property developer for decades, is not a particularly unreasonable statement.

[bash the fash]

He's an awful businessman. The branding stuff wasn't even his idea - it was his daughter's, who seems to be the only one in the family with any sort of brain.

In another life he'd have made a killing as a narcissistic salesman targeting racist old uncles, though.

[Celista]

You made the claim that he’d have been richer, which you could only reasonably do by knowing his spending levels.

I don’t know his spending levels, so I haven’t made a claim about his business acumen, other than to say he is good at branding, which considering he has been an internationally famous New York property developer for decades, is not a particularly unreasonable statement.

Well in any case, spending levels aren't super relevant to investment yields in this scenario, unless you're assuming he'd spend more on expenses/depreciating assets under one investment approach than another.

[Kalis]

Well in any case, spending levels aren't super relevant to investment yields in this scenario, unless you're assuming he'd spend more on expenses/depreciating assets under one investment approach than another.

They are relevant.

If he’d spent half his money on a yacht in his first year, then you’ve just halved what his expected worth would be now. If he’d spent half of what he had left the following year, then you’d be down to about a quarter. Without knowing his year-on-year spending, it is impossible to say if he is good at business, but spends lavishly, or if he is crap at business.

You’d need a team of accountants going over his spending, working out how that would change his estimated worth now and second guessing whether he’d have spent in the same way using an investment method that has different cash flows. It isn’t a simple calculation, it probably isn’t even possible to calculate, you’d have to look at each individual deal he made, assessing whether he made the right call, what the alternative options were, etc.

Is he a good businessman? I have no idea, but pointing out how much money he’d have if he used index linked funds and not spent anything is overly simplistic and doesn’t say much at all.

[Coffeexbean]

trumps a piece of shit but hes a good comedian

[Celista]

They are relevant.

If he’d spent half his money on a yacht in his first year, then you’ve just halved what his expected worth would be now. If he’d spent half of what he had left the following year, then you’d be down to about a quarter. Without knowing his year-on-year spending, it is impossible to say if he is good at business, but spends lavishly, or if he is crap at business.

You’d need a team of accountants going over his spending, working out how that would change his estimated worth now and second guessing whether he’d have spent in the same way using an investment method that has different cash flows. It isn’t a simple calculation, it probably isn’t even possible to calculate, you’d have to look at each individual deal he made, assessing whether he made the right call, what the alternative options were, etc.

Is he a good businessman? I have no idea, but pointing out how much money he’d have if he used index linked funds and not spent anything is overly simplistic and doesn’t say much at all.

Usually net worth accounts for assets. Yachts are assets. Even if a yacht is a depreciating asset (which it usually is) its value will not drop to 0 in the space of the year. Value depreciates over time. The value of the yacht at that period of time will be included in net worth calculations.

Have you taken accounting at all?

[beanman12345]

He's got good lawyers I will give him that.

A good businessman, I'm going with no. He's flat out screwed over way to many people and business he's worked with.

[Draco-Onis]

You made the claim that he’d have been richer, which you could only reasonably do by knowing his spending levels.

I don’t know his spending levels, so I haven’t made a claim about his business acumen, other than to say he is good at branding, which considering he has been an internationally famous New York property developer for decades, is not a particularly unreasonable statement.

From 40 years ago the s&P 500 has gone up 2,600%, Nasdaq composite 6500%, it is unknown how much he inherited anywhere from 40 - 200 million dollars since his father's net worth was not known. Also Trump did not get internationally famous for real estate, he got that way for being on the tabloids. Until he got on the apprentice he was the joke of the town and has a really bad reputation for not paying his bills.

[Wiyld]

You have to define 'good businessman'.

Some people define it as being someone who is able to make money. Period...end of story. They can do any shady ass thing as long as it makes money for them in the end. They can even do illegal things... as long as they get away with it. Anything that gains a person the upper hand and makes them money is acceptable.


Others define being a good businessman as one who is successful while playing by the rules. A person who makes clutch decisions just when they need to be made and advances not only themselves but those around them. They companies they lead or work in are strengthened by their decisions and actions.


So when we see people arguing this issue back and forth...we have to define the actual thing you are judging.

It it just a game. When you don't fit the description of something you would like to be, just rewrite the definition to fit you.

[Macaquerie]

Well Trump is really good at scamming idiots and stiffing his employees, and admittedly those are pretty important components to succeeding in business. When it comes to actually, you know, producing things and generating value and being a useful part of society, Trump isn't so great at that, but he's hardly alone in that.

[kail]

Of course he is. Hence why he is a billionaire.

Most people that do the usual "DURR HURR HE WENT DA BANKRUPT DURRR" don't understand how bankruptcy actually works.

But if the stock market beat him in generating revenue, would that really make him a great businessman?

I'd say he is (or was) an excellent salesman, can sell his simple name for a small fortune. That takes a good combination of charisma to make such a sale. Outside of that, he doesn't show much qualities of a good businessman.

Then comes the question if his net worth is higher or lower since he hasn't shown his taxreturns...

This is very true, much of his worth is assumed.

[Mormolyce]

Trump is remarkably good at branding.

You know people say that, but look at what his brand name is associated with these days.

It's almost like family take care of each other. But a couple million and he's a billionaire. That doesn't just happen. Are you saying his dad gave him billions?

He didn't just inherit "a couple million" ahahaha.

P.S. The article is saying he underperformed index funds. That means that if he had taken his entire wealth in 1988 to any bank, invested it in an absolute basic bitch stock portfolio, he would likely have considerably more money today than he does. Namely, however he invested his money in the intervening years, he got a poorer return on investment than he would've by doing essentially nothing and using no personal business sense whatsoever. That's what underperforming the market means. It's literally the baseline for being a "good businessman" - can you get better returns on your money than some average schmuck?

- - - Updated - - -

Of course he is. Hence why he is a billionaire.

Most people that do the usual "DURR HURR HE WENT DA BANKRUPT DURRR" don't understand how bankruptcy actually works.

You are arguing that bankruptcies average out over time? Maybe so, but the article is about his cumulative wealth from the 80s to today, and regardless of bust or boom he has underperformed the market.

[vindicatorx]

So besides all that do you think he's a good businessman

He filed for bankruptcy how many times again? He should be homeless living on the street IMO.

[Klingers]

If you want to know in truth what a horrible businessman Trump is, listen to episode 300 of "The Dollop" podcast that just came out. You'll cringe.

[Mormolyce]

So did Elon Musk.

Elon Musk wasn't born into a millionaire real estate family business. He made himself from pretty much zip and is now worth something like 6 Trumps.