Grand Marshal/High Warlord

[jackofwind]

providing feedback/suggestions? Please just get out of this thread as youre obviously just here to stirr shit up with your troll attitude.

Was I replying to you? Read into the context of who I'm quoting before you dump your salt everywhere.

PS: You're breaking ToS.

[God Save The King]

I retracted the last statement but apparently you were already replying. Sorry for that. I very much do try to differentiate between people reasonably arguing and people just going "you wanted classic now you get classic", pretty visibily showing their disdain for the matter. There were a TON of people hating on classic, saying it will and should never happen and generally just being obnoxious assholes. If you think these obnoxious kids just went away with the announcement instead of now trying to fuck with the discussions you have a naive view of the internet.

As for being paranoid about classic wow taking away significant ressources from live development I just don't see it happening, sorry. People are acting like classic will cost them 3 raid tiers every year but the matter of fact is that, after the initial startup, the maintenance of a static server with no new content to be added will be handleable by a somewhat small trained team. Yea, initially the training and initial setup might come at a cost but holy shit the entitlement of these buffoons thinking that they deserve that development time more than anyone else is so fundamentally selfish and arrogant. Where these guys also whining when hearthstone happened? Or Overwatch? Jesus christ Blizzard is catering to a relevant, year long demand for a product here. People need to stop trying to torpedo that like fucking 5 year olds would out of fear that mommy wont give them their precious fucking attention anymore.

Oh, the cost on the main team will be negligible, I agree. It's basically a non issue. I was mainly getting at the statement that no resources will be drawn from the main game is just a PR statement. There will be some, but not enough to matter. It might cost us a small QoL feature, or a new NPC model. Nothing big.

[Deleted]

Re-releasing Vanilla isn't about releasing a better version of that iteration of the game, it's about releasing an honest version of that iteration of the game. This isn't a remaster, it's a way to go back and play the game as it used to be.

And who are you to assert that again? Some random guy on the internet? If you so precisely know Blizzards intentions why wont you tell us some more secrets about the next expansions? Cant because you dont have a fucking clue? Thought so much.

For now Blizzard is asking for feedback and Im providing feedback. Whether or not they take my feedback into account or not is BLIZZARDS choice, not mine and definitely not yours, either. So instead of constantly bickering about people answering blizzards call for feedback, either productively participate in a discussion with actual arguments related to the topic at hand or fuck off.

[Jonnusthegreat]

Don't you think that if they needed more people on retail they would hire more?

too many cooks spoil the broth

But large restaurants hire more cooks to meet the demand.

[jackofwind]

And who are you to assert that again? Some random guy on the internet? If you so precisely know Blizzards intentions why wont you tell us some more secrets about the next expansions? Cant because you dont have a fucking clue? Thought so much.

For now Blizzard is asking for feedback and Im providing feedback. Whether or not they take my feedback into account or not is BLIZZARDS choice, not mine and definitely not yours, either. So instead of constantly bickering about people answering blizzards call for feedback, either productively participate in a discussion with actual arguments related to the topic at hand or fuck off.

Could you get just a little bit more angry please, I'm not sure that we understand how deeply and broadly you are invested in your own opinion.

I'm not questioning anyone's ability to provide feedback, I'm ridiculing you for getting mad that there are people out there who disagree with you. Look at you, you're swearing and telling people to get out of your thread. You're throwing ad hominems like you're in 8th Grade. You've got your fingers so deep in your ears trying to block out other people that you're on your way to a cerebral haemorrhage.

[Deleted]

Was I replying to you? Read into the context of who I'm quoting before you dump your salt everywhere.

PS: You're breaking ToS.

Youve done nothing but trying to derail the thread so far so be careful with throwing around the ToS.

Its a discussion about potential changes to the honor system and your entire contribution so far has been

"No"
"classic is gonna classic"
"Although blizzard specifically asked for feedback they wont listen to it"
"I know more about Blizzards intentions and plans than they have publicly announced"

What the hell are you even in this thread for except trolling? Why does it matter to you if we discuss this if youre so sure that all this discussion is futile anyways? answer this please

[jackofwind]

Youve done nothing but trying to derail the thread so far so be careful with throwing around the ToS.

Its a discussion about potential changes to the honor system and your entire contribution so far has been

"No"
"classic is gonna classic"
"Although blizzard specifically asked for feedback they wont listen to it"
"I know more about Blizzards intentions and plans than they have publicly announced"

What the hell are you even in this thread for except trolling? Why does it matter to you if we discuss this if youre so sure that all this discussion is futile anyways? answer this please

Because my opinion is that Classic is going to be Classic, but that upsets you for some reason and you want me to stop saying it. I'm disinclined to do so. You're also taking random comments to other people out of context intentionally and responding to them as if they were directed at you.

You're a proponent of providing feedback, but it seems you only want to do so in an echo chamber.

[Deleted]

But large restaurants hire more cooks to meet the demand.

Theyre not all cooking the same meal, tho. One cook is cooking overwatch for table 5, one is making classic servers for table 1 and the third is microwaving legion for tables 3,4 and 7. You dont hire 3 cooks to microwave legion or make classic servers.

- - - Updated - - -

Because my opinion is that Classic is going to be Classic

Good, we got that from your first post. Thanks for the input.

and responding to them as if they were directed at you.

Pretty sure i can reply to any post i want to and your insinuation that its random and intentionally pulled out of context is just that, an insinuation. Unlike you i actually make an effort to explain my position instead of just throwing out wannabe objective truths (classic will be classic and nothing you say or argue or feedback will change that). I actually challenge counter arguments and try to argue for mine (i dont think the r14 sys is an essential component of what made classic classic because). Thats an echo chamber?

Youre just full of shit dude. You come into the thread, ignore the arguments i brought up, assert that classic must be a 100% copy and then go and try to shut down any further discussion with claims as to how blizzard will allegedly handle classic servers and feedback about them.

You havent provided ANYTHING to this discussion aside from your view that classic servers must be 100% what they were. Other than that all you did is claiming you know what blizzard is going to do.

Go home dude, youre not impressing anyone.

[Gum]

Cant compare normal wow grinding to competitive standings grinding, tho. It literally capped at 24/7 playing. Its super unhealthy (both in terms of actual health as well as the entire rest of your life, like school, job, social environment).

Its a shitty system. Always has been and I cant believe believe that you guys truly want that back.

As for the "thats how it was, thats how it should be" guys... save your breath, that argument simply doesnt work. Not with blizzard explicitly asking for feedback on how classic should be implemented.

Also naming grinding as a way to 100% get something no matter how shit you are at it in the context of a system where the rewards were literally locked away for 99.9% of the playerbase cause they could never compete with a nolifer sharing his acc with another nolifer for 24/7 play is baffling to me.
Id be very surprised if the classic servers go live without changes to the r14 system.

I just dont see how thats even remotely an issue? Sure, its unhealthy. But so are many other things. Not sure what makes you the boss of what people can and cannot be allowed to do. Why dont you want it back? Because it sounds like youre just salty you cant participate, and therefor want other metics that more suits your style of play, to get those rewards.
I get that, but that isnt the issue at all. There is plenty of other ways you can progress your char in classic, that allows you to play on your own terms. Let it be server reputation, gear or something totally different.
You value the GM title, i assume, so you gotta grind for it. Thats a job. Now you got to make the choice, do you partake in something unhealthy and downright insane to get what you desire, or do you accept that you will never have it?
As i said, i think its okay to be defeated, its part of life. Being at a point in your life where you can value other things than a title in a videogame is a good thing. Those that arent, why not let them have it or atleast fight to attempt it.
Im intrigued as to what you wish to see instead? As i simply cannot see another thing that can be established within the classic realm of WoW to replace it.

Also, i think the Devs have stated multiple times, that there wont be changes to classic at all, it will be 100% classic. But what version of it? Thats the feedback they want. 10man UBRS and 5man Scholo? Or are we thinking 1.11 patch or "pure 1.00". Thats the discussion they were hoping to have.
They never cared about you guys and your transmogs, dual specs, flying, barbers, pvpsystem changes or any other totally retarded statements. No they just wanted to know what part of classic people liked the most, because those that dont like it, shouldnt play on it. Surely you can admit there will be plenty that do like it the way it is. Why not just play what you enjoy, instead of changing what others do? Blizzard has now accepted the fact that a multitude of players arent happy with the current wow, and long for the game that went away in the past, if you prefer the current systems, noone is forcing you to jump to the new bandwagon.

[Ehrees]

I am hopeful they will implement Vanilla exactly the way it was, with zero changes of any kind.

I am not saying it will happen that way, but I hope it does.

The reason is simple....I want to re-live the experience I had playing Vanilla. I do not want it modified, improved, or changed. The grind to Rank 14 is exactly what made it an accomplishment. The time it took to get there. I never said Rank 14 = skill. I knew hundreds of amazing PVPers back then who had rank 4 or 5 because they didnt BG at all.

The Classic servers are a time capsule......if there was a market for a new improved version of Vanilla, then they should make that game. But my desire and excitement for Classic is that it will be what it was in 2004. Warts and all.

[yoma]

Getting its own team = a team that could be working on WoW, but isn't.

That's a pretty terrible way to look at it. By that logic, anything and anyone that isn't on the retail WoW team is detracting from retail. No.

OT: Leave vanilla as vanilla. Devs already said they aren't changing anything outside of when in the patch cycle they begin, so stop with QoL change threads already.

[chrisnumbers]

First let's talk about how changing game content means making it a different game. If some content is not for you, then it's not for you. Go do something else.

[Jonnusthegreat]

That's a pretty terrible way to look at it. By that logic, anything and anyone that isn't on the retail WoW team is detracting from retail. No.

OT: Leave vanilla as vanilla. Devs already said they aren't changing anything outside of when in the patch cycle they begin, so stop with QoL change threads already.

But those are the facts. Anyone not working on WoW is not improving WoW. That's a fact.

- - - Updated - - -

Theyre not all cooking the same meal, tho. One cook is cooking overwatch for table 5, one is making classic servers for table 1 and the third is microwaving legion for tables 3,4 and 7. You dont hire 3 cooks to microwave legion or make classic servers.

Right. Hiring 2 chefs when you only need 1 is a waste of money that could be used for other things. You should instead hire cooks, which can make any meal the chef desires, thus increasing the restaurant's output.

Should I take this metaphor into the literal terms for you?

[Deleted]

I just dont see how thats even remotely an issue? Sure, its unhealthy. But so are many other things. Not sure what makes you the boss of what people can and cannot be allowed to do. Why dont you want it back? Because it sounds like youre just salty you cant participate, and therefor want other metics that more suits your style of play, to get those rewards.
I get that, but that isnt the issue at all. There is plenty of other ways you can progress your char in classic, that allows you to play on your own terms. Let it be server reputation, gear or something totally different.
You value the GM title, i assume, so you gotta grind for it. Thats a job. Now you got to make the choice, do you partake in something unhealthy and downright insane to get what you desire, or do you accept that you will never have it?
As i said, i think its okay to be defeated, its part of life. Being at a point in your life where you can value other things than a title in a videogame is a good thing. Those that arent, why not let them have it or atleast fight to attempt it.
Im intrigued as to what you wish to see instead? As i simply cannot see another thing that can be established within the classic realm of WoW to replace it.

Also, i think the Devs have stated multiple times, that there wont be changes to classic at all, it will be 100% classic. But what version of it? Thats the feedback they want. 10man UBRS and 5man Scholo? Or are we thinking 1.11 patch or "pure 1.00". Thats the discussion they were hoping to have.
They never cared about you guys and your transmogs, dual specs, flying, barbers, pvpsystem changes or any other totally retarded statements. No they just wanted to know what part of classic people liked the most, because those that dont like it, shouldnt play on it. Surely you can admit there will be plenty that do like it the way it is. Why not just play what you enjoy, instead of changing what others do? Blizzard has now accepted the fact that a multitude of players arent happy with the current wow, and long for the game that went away in the past, if you prefer the current systems, noone is forcing you to jump to the new bandwagon.

Ill take what I get but ill also leave feedback on systems that i think are genuinely problematic. Keep your assumptions about me to yourself, theyre largely wrong anyways. For one I never even implied i was the boss on anything. Im providing feedback and im getting somewhat pissed at the people trying to forbid me to leave that feedback. That is all. Should Blizzard decide to go with the old r14 system ill still happily play on the classic servers, id just prefer it if the r14 grind wasnt such a joke. You liked it? Fine. Dont understand you but cool. I didnt and id like to see it changed to something more meaningful than a system rewarding prepubescent wankers ruining their school leaving qualification over a pvp rank.

And I have yet to hear a better argument against it than "must be 100% classic" which simply doesn't fly. Considering Blizzard is already pondering class balancing changes (which i see as a double edged sword. Positive on the viability, negative in terms of the gameplay authenticy), Id much rather hear about any negative impact a pvp system change might have on the classic experience than people repeating the above quoted mantra. That mantra reminds me a ton about the thousands of morons aggressively shitting over people asking for classic servers with "will never happen" "rose tinted glasses" and the likes.

Blizzard will never change the pvp system? Well, Blizzard apparently will also never release classic servers so I quite frankly dont give a damn about people pretending to know what Blizzard will do and thusly I will continue giving feedback because so far Ive had great experiences with doing so, whereas constant naysayers without arguments have achieved nothing but coming accross as huge dicks and trolls who fuel on making other people feel miserable for trying to make suggestions.

[Sormine]

The reason is simple....I want to re-live the experience I had playing Vanilla. I do not want it modified, improved, or changed. The grind to Rank 14 is exactly what made it an accomplishment. The time it took to get there. I never said Rank 14 = skill. I knew hundreds of amazing PVPers back then who had rank 4 or 5 because they didnt BG at all.

Except it wasn't. You just imagine it was. People who played back then with firsthand experience of the system will recount the tales of griefers who made it their mission to fuck with specific players so they couldn't reach rank 14. They literally went out of their way to hurt other players. Not to mention the system encouraged conflcit between the same faction because they were all scrambling to get it themselves.

This is all ignoring the part where account sharing will be the only realistic way to get rank 14. That is of course if you can't get your own bot to do it for you.

[Mormolyce]

Lol at the people in this thread saying "Let it be the way it was."

Rewarding account sharing and botting is counterproductive to any positive gameplay experience. Get real.

Yeah but if you start addressing all the things that are counterproductive to positive gameplay experience then Classic is going to morph into BfA...

[Sormine]

Yeah but if you start addressing all the things that are counterproductive to positive gameplay experience then Classic is going to morph into BfA...

That's not even remotely true. Nothing impacts the experience worse than a grindfest to see who can play the longest amongst entire servers.

[Hiricine]

The general meta to the system is fine, but they need to fix honor normalization. The way it used to work was that it was basically impossible to get HWL/GM if you weren't getting the most honor each week. They could probably soften the curve to allow people to grind through the ranks a little faster and not make it as dependent on the performance of other players.

[Kyanion]

Because my opinion is that Classic is going to be Classic, but that upsets you for some reason and you want me to stop saying it. I'm disinclined to do so. You're also taking random comments to other people out of context intentionally and responding to them as if they were directed at you.

You're a proponent of providing feedback, but it seems you only want to do so in an echo chamber.

No, your opinion is that Blizzard won't listen to feedback (despite asking for it) and they will make classic exactly as it was.

[Echohunter]

Dedicated...meaning those that could account share or play 18 hours a day?

Yes.
.....