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  1. #181
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unfilteredJW View Post
    "Fake news" is such a diluted term now thanks to a bunch of knuckledraggers with egos so fucking big they think they can change the meanings of words.

    Fake news is just that: false news reported. Anything else is YOU being an idiot.
    By the way, changing meaning of words is Newspeak from 1984. Which just happens to be used by the same government pushing fake news, ministry of truth, in 1984. The book... not the year...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeezy911 View Post
    Taxes have nothing to do with paying for social programs? GTFO with this stuff.
    He said typically... which probably referring to every GOP candidate since Reagan. They cut social programs and cut taxes, with the deficit increasing. The simple math there should be obvious. Even if you include Medicare and SS, which are the largest expenditure we have, the fact that spending and deficit is out pacing it, should be an indication that the most important thing in these tax cuts... is not social programs...

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    It’s a simple fact... if social programs are getting cut and you are not getting a raise to compensate for losing the access, you are actually getting a pay cut. Every year you do not get a raise that matches inflation (around 3%) you are getting a pay cut. Taxes are largely there, due to the fact we have such a wealth in balance. If the top made a lot less, while they paid workers more, there wouldn’t be a need for social programs. They exist, because we are not going to force companies to pay justified wages. As a result, we gave taxes, which than pay for shit you simply cannot afford, because you are under paid.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
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  2. #182
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeezy911 View Post
    Oh so it was Bush's fault Obama racked up a trillion dollars. Got it.
    Go look up what the deficit (i.e. how much the government was spending vs how much it was bringing in) was in December 2008. Realize that at that point, all tax and revenue policy was Bush administration.

    Now look at the deficit throughout Obama's presidency. Realize that tax and revenue policy tends to roll over for a couple of years, like Bush's expensive wars and his tax breaks, and yet despite those STILL GOING ON, Obama managed to start turning government spend around back towards normal.
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  3. #183
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    The solution to paying taxes, is not anarchy. It’s getting paid enough, that everyone in the country can sustain them selfs. We don’t need to spend so much on SS, if we got paid enough to save. We don’t need insurance or Medicare, if we all got paid enough to pay out of pocket. All these things are to mitigate the fact that our pay, does not create a society, where none of us have to worry about affording means that social programs provide.

    You know what directly impacts my use of social programs? $$$
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  4. #184
    Immortal Zandalarian Paladin's Avatar
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    Well here's the thing.

    He's not wrong, he's just a massive hypocrite who use this argument to push his own fake news.
    Google Diversity Memo
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    [...] we have an intolerance for ideas and evidence that don’t fit a certain ideology. I’m also not saying that we should restrict people to certain gender roles; I’m advocating for quite the opposite: treat people as individuals, not as just another member of their group (tribalism)..

  5. #185
    The Lightbringer zEmini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shimerra View Post
    Yeah you misusing a word isn't the same as a word changing meaning slowly over time. And no your opinion man doesn't cut it.

    Article headlines have always been designed to lure readers into reading it with catchy, shocking, and sometimes slightly hyperbolic/misleading titles. The fact that folks like yourself are apparently too lazy to actually read it says more about you then the guy writing the click baity title. This has been a thing since printed media existed. It's also why "front page news" is part if the nomenclature and the boring stuff was shoved in the back/middle. "Click bait" to sell papers.

    So it is okay to mislead people with bull shit titles? Explain how it isn't fake to me then if the title is pretty much telling a lie from the start. If you want to waste your time reading from someone that has to SHOCK their readers into reading what they have to say then go ahead. Ill find something from a more local source.

    Regardless of how long it has existed, it really is just bad journalism and I think there should be some paradigm shift in how news tells the news.

  6. #186
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archmage BloodElf4Life View Post
    Well here's the thing.

    He's not wrong, he's just a massive hypocrite who use this argument to push his own fake news.
    No, here's the thing: he is wrong.

    'Fake news' has a very specific meaning in that it refers to entirely falsified news articles from suspect sources on social media sites like Facebook and Reddit. It does -not- refer to editorial bias or editorial mistakes.
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  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Your taxes being raised has nothing to do with paying for social programs. You should pay more attention to what's going on right now.
    Don't be an idiot, it makes life hard.

    https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...rty-tax-freeze

  8. #188
    The Insane Kujako's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeezy911 View Post
    Don't be an idiot, it makes life hard.
    I don't know... a lot of idiots seem to have it kinda easy.
    It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.

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  9. #189
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeezy911 View Post
    Don't be an idiot, it makes life hard.
    Going from around 3% to 4% Tax doesn’t make your life hard. It means your life was already hard, but you found a scape goat that avoids blaming the actual problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kujako View Post
    I don't know... a lot of idiots seem to have it kinda easy.
    Maybe idiots are the sort whose “normal” life, becomes “hard” due to a 1% increase in taxes? If a house falls apart, when an acorn falls on it... the acorn isn’t at fault for the house falling apart.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    You had to work really hard to even find a proposal... Good luck with that brain thing!
    Yea because Google: "Illinois tax for social programs" took a lot of work and time.

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeezy911 View Post
    Yea because Google: "Illinois tax for social programs" took a lot of work and time.
    Oh, so helping the rich is better than helping social programs that have actually been shown to pay for itself over a period of time? How do you not fall down more?

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  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    No, here's the thing: he is wrong.

    'Fake news' has a very specific meaning in that it refers to entirely falsified news articles from suspect sources on social media sites like Facebook and Reddit. It does -not- refer to editorial bias or editorial mistakes.
    I'd like to repost a comment I made roughly a year ago:


    "Fake news", as a concept, is simple to describe and vilify when it is patently and intentionally false (the Hillary killed Harambe example). However, the fact is that "fake news" is absolutely a much more nuanced concept than just that. There are many examples that can be given of mainstream news outlets reporting stories with urgency and seriousness, when the truth is that it isn't a story at all. An example I like to give is CNN giving a great deal of air time to discuss (with much seriousness) how much Trump's transition as president-elect was in complete disarray. The subtext of this is that if Trump is failing to even prepare to be president, what kind of failure will he be as president?

    This story was proven wrong, with the facts showing that Trump was as far along in his transition as Obama was. David Axelrod, a former Obama Adviser, even came to Trump's defense. But by then the story had been abandoned and a new one had taken it's place, and many of the low-information viewers of the original story were never the wiser, some of whom to this day would likely tell you about how they saw on the news about how Trump bungled his transition.

    So I don't really see a difference between the Hillary killed Harambe and Trump's Transition in Disarray headlines. They are both designed to mislead people, to misrepresent and mischaracterize events. But I often see how when this is pointed out, that the mainstream news get somewhat of a pass, that their stories were simply "incorrect", or "in error", when the pattern of behavior very much seems to suggest that it is not by accident, but by design. And this brings us back around to the easily-understood "Hillary kills Harambe" versus the story that requires a more thoughtful understanding of the nuance of "fake news".
    I know "fake news" came out of the patently false stories about Hillary opponents dying in suspicious house fires, published by completely fictious "news" organizations, but when you have these kinds of damaging stories come out of the mainstream press over and over again that just aren't true or are wildly misleading, such as the Trump Jr. timeline recently, "fake news" becomes a shorthand, even if it's not strictly by the original definition.

    And even if they're not publishing stories that are really damning such as that one, they're publishing an onslaught of stories intended to make Trump look bad personally, such as the Japanese fish story or the transition story above.

    And by the way, Obama sure didn't have this problem of constantly being dogged by negative stories that have to be retracted over and over again, retractions some viewers will never see. This lends credibility to the idea that the media are biased toward the left.

  13. #193
    Titan Lenonis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeezy911 View Post
    I said I don't care about the subject because it is a boring topic, not that I don't care about swamp creatures always looking to tax me more to pay for social programs.
    Trust me it's quite obvious you don't care because you somehow manage to take a very complex topic, oversimplify it and then manage, somehow, to do that in a way where you make flat our wrong simple statements.

    It would be quite impressive if it wasn't so alarming.

    Here's a tip -- if you don't care enough to learn about how the federal budget works, and you don't think it's an interesting topic, then don't roll out debunked talking points about those topics.

  14. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by broods View Post
    I've looked at numerous cases were Trump has called the media out for delivering fake news and in those instances it did indeed appear that the news articles had been "faked" to make Trump appear to be a buffoon and what not. CNN and WashPo seem to be particularly guilty of this.

    I'm not American so i'm not exposed to your media the same as you guys so perhaps i'm missing something.
    Yes he is 100% right. You may disagree with his politics and/or morals. But when it comes to calling out fake news he has always been 100% right. There's a reason why every mainstream media station besides fox news is a joke.


    At least fox news(who is ran by liberals) employs both right wing and left wing talking heads. When they say they're balanced they're not lying.

  15. #195
    The Undying
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karfal View Post
    Yes he is 100% right. You may disagree with his politics and/or morals. But when it comes to calling out fake news he has always been 100% right. There's a reason why every mainstream media station besides fox news is a joke.


    At least fox news(who is ran by liberals) employs both right wing and left wing talking heads. When they say they're balanced they're not lying.
    Has Trump every been 100% right about anything? I mean, I almost pulled a muscle laughing so hard at this point - the comic relief alone would be wonderful if not for the horrific thought that you actually believe any of what you wrote.

    #deplorable45

  16. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by Karfal View Post
    Yes he is 100% right. You may disagree with his politics and/or morals. But when it comes to calling out fake news he has always been 100% right. There's a reason why every mainstream media station besides fox news is a joke.


    At least fox news(who is ran by liberals) employs both right wing and left wing talking heads. When they say they're balanced they're not lying.
    Here's a list of Trump's lies. He is the fake news.

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...umps-lies.html

  17. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by Karfal View Post
    Yes he is 100% right. You may disagree with his politics and/or morals. But when it comes to calling out fake news he has always been 100% right. There's a reason why every mainstream media station besides fox news is a joke.


    At least fox news(who is ran by liberals) employs both right wing and left wing talking heads. When they say they're balanced they're not lying.
    Just because a broken clock is right twice a day doesn't mean I'm going to look to it for the actual time.

    Trump is the real fake news. He's the most dishonest president in decades, if ever, and yet you love to flock to him and buy all that snake oil he's selling.

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  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by broods View Post
    I've looked at numerous cases were Trump has called the media out for delivering fake news and in those instances it did indeed appear that the news articles had been "faked" to make Trump appear to be a buffoon and what not. CNN and WashPo seem to be particularly guilty of this.

    I'm not American so i'm not exposed to your media the same as you guys so perhaps i'm missing something.
    Do some people lie? Yeah. It is important life lesson for everyone to understand. But that coin has two sides because if media can lie so can a President.

    I mean don't you get the sense that any news that isn't positive for Trump is fake news but any news that is good for Trump is real even if its in the same story, by the same person, given at the same time? Seems pretty convenient for the President how that works. I mean can promise you if Fox News started reporting negative things about Trump and CNN started reporting positive things about Trump suddenly Fox would be fake news and CNN would be real news within 20 minutes. Then if it flipped a week later that opinion would again flip.

  19. #199
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yggdrasil View Post
    Do some people lie? Yeah. It is important life lesson for everyone to understand. But that coin has two sides because if media can lie so can a President.

    I mean don't you get the sense that any news that isn't positive for Trump is fake news but any news that is good for Trump is real even if its in the same story, by the same person, given at the same time? Seems pretty convenient for the President how that works. I mean can promise you if Fox News started reporting negative things about Trump and CNN started reporting positive things about Trump suddenly Fox would be fake news and CNN would be real news within 20 minutes. Then if it flipped a week later that opinion would again flip.
    Yeah, your second paragraph is true... because it has happened. This is a guy who donated to Clinton Foundation and saw fit to invite Clintons, not Putin, to his wedding. Now, a lot of the news defending Trump seems to imply a relationship between Clintons and the FBI investigation... something that none of them had, to the extent that Trump did.

    That’s the thing with people like Trump. He can claim that there are agents who favor Clintons, to treat him unfairly. The problem? None of these agents were so close to Clinton, that they invited them to their wedding. In the land of whataboutism, every accusation of a relationship to imply favoritism, has to be measured against the favortism Trump would receive for a relationship with Clinton.

    All because he is snake, that will wrap him self around people, as long as he gets attention. Trump can play with words for his pre candidacy bragging of having a relationship with Putin. It’s much harder to do with Clinton’s, thanks to Trump’s wedding pictures.

    Edit: another thing people forget, Hillary’s sliminess, was not based on any court ruling or any judicial declaration. It is all the shady people she seems to interact with. The wallstreet speeches, the relationship with NYC elites and oligarchs... which includes Trump. He even admitted as much during the debates, when he said he was just like Hillary donors, so he knows first hand. His support ignored, what would or should have been one of the infinite disqualifying quotes he made during the campaign.
    Last edited by Felya; 2017-12-16 at 02:20 PM.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

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