1. #1

    Protection Paladin - It is not ITEMIZATION!

    I've played protection-paladin for REALLY a long time, and it's harder and harder for me to fit into raid composition after our guild progressed. A lot of threads in the official forum have stressed the need for more HP, more mitigation, and more threat. However, due to the limited budget in item, it is not possible to fullfill the requirement, and erroneously leading us to redesign tier set that have less Int and less Spell Damage. The two attributes are, however, essential and making us different from warrior.

    Recently I rerolled other class, and found that many classes have some special talent point that can convert base-attribute into other attribute, and suddenly I realized, it's not the itemization problem, IT IS TALENT.

    The base attribute AGILITY is useful for both threat generation and damage mitigation for BOTH War and Dru, yet there's only damage mitigation for Pal(forget about the increase in white damage), and let alone that not a single agility point is given to paladin tier set. The block value for War is even useful at using shield slam, while paladin can only get a MERE damage reduction.

    I think the most problems coming from the fact that paladin needs Sta, Int, and Spell Damage without doubt(and also other attribute, if any.) The Int attribute consumes a LOT item level, and it give NOTHING but a slightly larger pool of blue rage. Neither damage reduction nor threat generation it provides(OK, spell crits may count), and I consider it strange when comparing with AGILITY.

    Hope the developers can someday notice this, and they will give us some talnets that can convert intelgence into stamina, by maybe 50% or 33% while also converting to damage reduction attribute. And also that maybe the spell damage stuff can add into block value, or make it a magic-shield that absorbs/reflects spells when holy shield is up.

    By that redesign in protection talent tree, I believe ALL protection paladin would rather pick paladin-oriented armors than those without SD. And armors with Int are preferred to that without it.

    By the way, why did't I post it on official forum? because there's no blue in paladin-forum for a LONG LONG LONG.....time, really sad :'(

  2. #2

    Re: Protection Paladin - It is not ITEMIZATION!

    blizzard have said it before that at the moment paladins arent viable high end raiding tanks. They can tank some bosses and trash better than any other class and other they just fail at. At the begining of the game each class had its role in a raid. some classes are lucky that theyve been alowed to do new things =]. blizzard have said there going to focus on the Ret side of paladins and improve that. shame in my eyes. prot paladins are fun to play.

    ultimately tho the warrior is the tank of the game. druids did it for a while but there items havent scaled. black temple raiding? there not so useful anymore. warriors scale with armour and blizzard create the armour for warrior tanks. ask any blizzard developer theyd say to you. use a warrior its whats meant to be.

    but yes i agree. its increasingly dificult for protection paladins to even off tank. as resistence gear with jsut stam and resistence is dificult for them to use.

    my class is warrior. want to see high end tanking experience. youd have to re-roll i dont think blizzard are going to address the issues of prot paladins any time soon. i find it unfair that warriors can be the best tanks and some of the highest dpsers in the game tho. nerf fury pve dps. incoming hate

    also how conveniant that paladin complaints have increased 10x since horde could become them
    i needz to get myself a sig

  3. #3

    Re: Protection Paladin - It is not ITEMIZATION!

    I tanked Kara with my Paladin last week, the whole run went great. We got all the way up to Curator in one night. We wiped once on Big Bad Wolf, not my fault, and we one shotted everything else. The next night everything went great again, Aran was cake, Illhoof took two attempts, the only problematic point was with Prince. Aside from the luck factor in relation to the dropping of the infernals, crushing blows were killing me. Getting hit for 8k crushing blows, sometimes back to back, makes a fight impossible.

    As for gear I have mixed Pally tanking gear (Righteous Breastplate, Helm, Gloves, Shoulders) with Warrior gear. It works out pretty well, especially for threat, even though I am missing a lot of spell damage, it goes well. So I don't have anything to complain about except for crushing blows.

  4. #4

    Re: Protection Paladin - It is not ITEMIZATION!

    Quote Originally Posted by paul3000
    I tanked Kara with my Paladin last week, the whole run went great. We got all the way up to Curator in one night. We wiped once on Big Bad Wolf, not my fault, and we one shotted everything else. The next night everything went great again, Aran was cake, Illhoof took two attempts, the only problematic point was with Prince. Aside from the luck factor in relation to the dropping of the infernals, crushing blows were killing me. Getting hit for 8k crushing blows, sometimes back to back, makes a fight impossible.

    As for gear I have mixed Pally tanking gear (Righteous Breastplate, Helm, Gloves, Shoulders) with Warrior gear. It works out pretty well, especially for threat, even though I am missing a lot of spell damage, it goes well. So I don't have anything to complain about except for crushing blows.
    I think paladin did great in Karazan, especially there are tons of undead, and I have main tanked Kara within 5 hr all-cleared.
    Things are fine for Gruul/Mag since they are dealing physical damage and no special abilities.
    When paladin proceed to SSC/TK, there are tons of trouble, though they can be handled with some efforts. You need resistence gears and still need uncrushable state; you will face alot mana-burn and silences. Though there're indeed certain circumstances that prot-paladin can improve the situation, it can ALSO be done without us.

    It then become that though prot-paladin can help with those trash, yet it is fine without or even better if the paladin is holy-spec. Although there're some awesome items in BT for tanking, I would rather say that these are just some illusion the developer gave us. Just look at the block value and think: I do not have shield slam and these value are infinitesimal compared with the damage taken. (It would be true for paladin to be KING of BLOCKING if these value exceed certain threshold, and to be different from the type of damage avoidance tank.)

  5. #5

    Re: Protection Paladin - It is not ITEMIZATION!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonash
    Quote Originally Posted by paul3000
    I tanked Kara with my Paladin last week, the whole run went great. We got all the way up to Curator in one night. We wiped once on Big Bad Wolf, not my fault, and we one shotted everything else. The next night everything went great again, Aran was cake, Illhoof took two attempts, the only problematic point was with Prince. Aside from the luck factor in relation to the dropping of the infernals, crushing blows were killing me. Getting hit for 8k crushing blows, sometimes back to back, makes a fight impossible.

    As for gear I have mixed Pally tanking gear (Righteous Breastplate, Helm, Gloves, Shoulders) with Warrior gear. It works out pretty well, especially for threat, even though I am missing a lot of spell damage, it goes well. So I don't have anything to complain about except for crushing blows.
    I think paladin did great in Karazan, especially there are tons of undead, and I have main tanked Kara within 5 hr all-cleared.
    Things are fine for Gruul/Mag since they are dealing physical damage and no special abilities.
    When paladin proceed to SSC/TK, there are tons of trouble, though they can be handled with some efforts. You need resistence gears and still need uncrushable state; you will face alot mana-burn and silences. Though there're indeed certain circumstances that prot-paladin can improve the situation, it can ALSO be done without us.

    It then become that though prot-paladin can help with those trash, yet it is fine without or even better if the paladin is holy-spec. Although there're some awesome items in BT for tanking, I would rather say that these are just some illusion the developer gave us. Just look at the block value and think: I do not have shield slam and these value are infinitesimal compared with the damage taken. (It would be true for paladin to be KING of BLOCKING if these value exceed certain threshold, and to be different from the type of damage avoidance tank.)
    I'm not sure where you get your facts from, but they aren't even close to the truth.

    1. The one resistance fight does not require any tank to be uncrushable, simply uncritable which is 490 defense. Hydross is very, very tankable for Paladins, along with his adds.
    2. Int is not an especially useful tanking stat. When filling an MT role my incoming damage is high enough that SA keeps me mostly full on mana. My mana pool doesn't need to be very deep if it's always being filled.
    3. There is only one fight with any mana burn and that is FLK. And given that our mana pool is generally refilled by damage, it can be better for us to take a leeching throw if it prevents a healer from taking it.
    4. BV isn't as useful to us as it is to warriors, but given that very few shots should make it past our shields it is far from worthless. It provides a steady damage reduction that lowers spikeyness.


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