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  1. #41

    Re: Why WoW and its player base fail!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wildhorn
    You know they act like idiots on purpose right? This is to please the mass.

    Btw, a general was a soldier at beginning :P
    dude, stop countering me, those guys are morons and there is no screenshot in the world to proove it ain't so ;]

  2. #42

    Re: Why WoW and its player base fail!

    Quote Originally Posted by overneathe
    dude, stop countering me, those guys are morons and there is no screenshot in the world to proove it ain't so ;]
    lol. I love them for that. Warhammer will be a great game anyway.

    They basicaly took WoW, removed all the bullshit and this gave Warhammer!
    I am indestructible.

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  3. #43

    Re: Why WoW and its player base fail!

    OK i will stop telling things with no reason but WHY are you saying all this here? this is base on wow we dont want someone to say ''bad'' things about wow. so have fun on warhammer forums and qq about wow but not here plz

  4. #44

    Re: Why WoW and its player base fail!

    Well i mean i dont hate you but i dont wanna take time to read all post but from what i see its only things vs wow:O haha plz post good things about wow here

  5. #45

    Re: Why WoW and its player base fail!

    Quote Originally Posted by alex6391
    Well i mean i dont hate you but i dont wanna take time to read all post but from what i see its only things vs wow:O haha plz post good things about wow here
    Well if we want WoW to improve, we need to talk about what is wrong too.

    WoW is not perfect 100%. Until it is, I will gladly say what is wrong with it.
    I am indestructible.

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  6. #46

    Re: Why WoW and its player base fail!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wildhorn
    Sorry but Warcraft series is PvP. PvE was just to learn the game mechanic and to add to the lore. But once you reached the end of the game, you were going to Battlenet and fight other players (PvP).
    LOL.

    Seriously, if you wanted to "rewrite" history at least you could have a decent attempt at it. Warcraft predates Battle net by so many years it is not even funny.

    But actually you have given a nice comparison to "wow is PVE" defenders => PVP is to WoW like BattleNet is to Warcraft: a late night addition.

    Not that I'm much of a defender of that position (a game is what the devs and the players make of it...).



  7. #47

    Re: Why WoW and its player base fail!

    Yes i must admit its not perfect..i only thought you were promoting warhammer but now nm yes it aint perfect and this is why im always posting new comments and topics on wow forums trying to improve this nice game...well thats it

  8. #48

    Re: Why WoW and its player base fail!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pyrostemplar
    LOL.

    Seriously, if you wanted to "rewrite" history at least you could have a decent attempt at it. Warcraft predates Battle net by so many years it is not even funny.

    But actually you have given a nice comparison to "wow is PVE" defenders => PVP is to WoW like BattleNet is to Warcraft: a late night addition.

    Not that I'm much of a defender of that position (a game is what the devs and the players make of it...).
    Of course WC1 was PvE :P Does multiplayer was even existing back in those time?

    But WC2 and WC3 were more PvP.


    Warcraft was supposed to be more PvP oriented at its beginning. But corporate drama (lol) and the main designers left it to create Arenanet (not sure of name but they are the guys who made Guild Wars). Then Blizzard hired their 2 "morons" which were PvE EQ freaks.


    Yes i must admit its not perfect..i only thought you were promoting warhammer but now nm yes it aint perfect and this is why im always posting new comments and topics on wow forums trying to improve this nice game...well thats it
    I am not promoting Warhammer (i wont force someone to play a game lol) but I wont allow people to say warhammer suck just because they are Blizz's fan boys
    I am indestructible.

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  9. #49
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    Re: Why WoW and its player base fail!

    I don't see why everyone who is against wow has to make a big post about it. don't like it? Don't play it.

    I got news for y'all warhammer is not going to be so freakin amazing that it will drain wow. I do believe that warhammer will take away some of the pvp crowd in wow, but good riddens imo.

    Honestly I don't understand people who play mmo's for pvp. Do you want real pvp? Play a first person shooter where skill and intelligence are the most needed. MMO PVPing is nothing but which person is luckier in the random number generator and which person has the most stats, and even class matters. Skill is the last deciding qualifier in mmo PVP. I suppose if you have two equally geared people of the same class and spec, then skill would matter, but in real-game pvp, that will never happen.

    I enjoy wow for many reasons. One is that the game is not stressful! I play RTS's and FPSs. I tell ya what, i get pissed off when I lost or lose. I HAD to win in those games. In wow, if I die, or my raid group wipes, no big deal, a minor annoyance.

    Secondly, very few games can come close to the amount of socialization that wow brings to the table. everything in game revolves around playing with other people. this is why I enjoy raiding.

    Could wow fix some issues? Of course, but no game is perfect.

  10. #50

    Re: Why WoW and its player base fail!

    How can people even have an opinion about Warhammer Online yet? It's in betaphase. And if they deliver what is promised you can have a thought or two about it, but you cant ever say that it "sucks" without trying it out for real.

  11. #51
    Moderator Nyanmaru's Avatar
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    Re: Why WoW and its player base fail!

    Quote Originally Posted by Clay
    How can people even have an opinion about Warhammer Online yet? It's in betaphase. And if they deliver what is promised you can have a thought or two about it, but you cant ever say that it "sucks" without trying it out for real.
    I can have an opinion about something even if I haven't tried it. Most people just feel that their argumentation looses their strength if they start like "From what I know about the game..." or "From my perspective...". It's just not the common new evolved "Internet Speech" to be careful and polite. Everyone's a bully on the net so if you wanna be heard you gotta go down the hard road and be a bully yourself. I know it sounds kinda silly, but after reading the text of a few hundred bullies you just start to act like one of them yourself if you're a little unperceptive.

    Have you ever tried some strange stuff like bondage or something? Why don't you, because you think it's not good, or you might even say "it sucks" without trying it I know it's a bit through the roof but it kinda shows the point where "it sucks" and "it's not my kind of game" are kinda the same thing but "it sucks" can lead to a lot of misunderstanding. You can't ever say that something is utterly bad, you can only say that it's nothing you like. Think about B-movies, some say these are crap, others love them big times. The quality really is bad and there are lots of movies that got the same theme but it's just that special thing that makes you love 'em...

    Don't wear your blinders when reading texts on the net, don't hook yourself up on details, try to see the whole thing.

    MMOs are what you and the other players make them be.


    And pleeeease (with sugar on top of it) stop comparing WoW with the old Warcraft-Trilogy. There's just the lore behind the game that's the same and that's it. It's just not "Warcaft 4" it's something new!

  12. #52

    Re: Why WoW and its player base fail!

    The reason that WOW should BE pvp based is because you got Horde, and you got Alliance, yes there is rival factions going against the world but overall it ends with Horde fighting Alliance, therefore it should be focused on pvp. Now dont say that im a pvper QQing because tbqh I quit WOW alrdy, and I was a pver when I did it. What WOW did was focus on PVE and not enough on pvp, yes Capture the flag was fun at first but thats more for shooters. I liked DAOC pvp, yes the same developers from DAOC are making Warhammer, but anyways I like seeing places burn and I like to see take control of keeps, not face a premade and get owned in 5 mins cause I had lag so it took my 10 seconds longer to capture a flag or get owned cause the other team was glitching so we couldnt get the flag back. anyways thats just my opinion.

  13. #53

    Re: Why WoW and its player base fail!

    It's easy for me.

    1. I love PvE I hate PvP -> WoW is good for me

    2. I love that I can't run out of dungeons. I don't care about player housing and destroying cities in PvP. The day I'll have the best of the best gear in game and I'll have no new dungeon to run will be a sad one for me. -> WoW

    3. I love WoW lore.

    From what I know War is PvP like Guild wars so no thanks. But I do undestand it can be a better game for someone else.

  14. #54

    Re: Why WoW and its player base fail!

    Quote Originally Posted by ndrew
    IHonestly I don't understand people who play mmo's for pvp. Do you want real pvp? Play a first person shooter where skill and intelligence are the most needed. MMO PVPing is nothing but which person is luckier in the random number generator and which person has the most stats, and even class matters. Skill is the last deciding qualifier in mmo PVP. I suppose if you have two equally geared people of the same class and spec, then skill would matter, but in real-game pvp, that will never happen.
    I just registered to say one thing: Try guild wars if you believe MMO pvp is just random numbers. Guild Wars is imho the only MMORPG out there which does reward skill, time is still important but with some skill you can outsmart not only the AI but also other players. Just FYI I've played WoW since day one and have over 8 characters who are over level 60, of which one is a 70 druid in full tier 4 and with an epic flying mount. Not bragging just stating that I know how WoW works and I'm not some random GW fanboy flaming here. Just wanted to let you know that MMO PvP is not random numbers, its about (most of the time) TEAMWORK, thats why you play a MMO. Heck for that matter try the old style Ultima Online, even that pvp was amazingly fun. (Unlike WoW pvp.)

  15. #55

    Re: Why WoW and its player base fail!

    Well, I personnally agree with Wildhorn on some points and disagree on some others (who doesn't?).

    WoW has always been PvE-oriented. PvP was included because every successful MMORPG released before WoW had some PvP in it (or a lot) and they worked, until WoW arrived. And the MAIN reason why WoW is so popular is that their "beta" phase, before releasing the actual game, was ALL the MMORPGs before. Yeah, they basically took every good element from older MMOs and cooked them with some "Warcraft Sauce". The Warcraft lore is another reason why WoW is so popular. People play the game because it's fun but also because they have played War 1, War 2 and War 3 and they know the lore and big characters. They want to actually interact with them more than in the RTS games. The bad thing is, in the actual state of things, I cannot, without being a hardcore raider, interact with "biggies". I mean, look at it this way:

    - You wanna see Thrall? Enter Orgrimmar. End of the line. You wanna beat him? Good luck clearing ALL the city and then getting only some honor? WTF? he respawns after 5 min and then, all you've done is pretty much worthless.
    - You wanna see Illidan? Enter a hardcore guild, get the best gear and invest some of your life.
    - Wanna see Kel'Thuzad? Before WotLK, you will have to form a Naxx raid. Good luck there.

    Same thing will probably go with Arthas and all the following biggies. But on the other hand, who would you expect to fight in the toughest raid encounter in the game? Some noname demon?

    Where I agree with Wildhorn is, WoW is a series of scripts running all at once. I mean, I am not a hardcore raider, I am far from seeing all the raiding content so far but what I know is, NO ENCOUNTER should fail, if everyone executes their "script" right. I mean, some of my friends recognize me as a great video game player when I need to execute the same pattern over and over on a boss fight or some kind of pattern thing (think Lulu's dodge-the-thunder thing in FF X). And since the first time I've fought Lurker in SSC, I NEVER die from the "scripted" things like Spout or Whirlwind. I always die from other people dying because of the scripted things. This is just one raid boss I know, but they all work the same. It's the way the developers have taken to have guilds progress. Repeat an encounter until you master it, then go farm it for the weeks after. Try one next boss, rinse repeat. This is not a lot of fun by itself. What is fun (I know someone has said this already in this post) is the social interaction involved. I am having fun in raids because of the guild I'm in. And basically, THAT alone makes WoW a success. It's supposed to be a RPG, with a lot of people around interacting with you. RPG? yes, you have a character, you have him progress through the game and build around him to the point, you don't want him to die or you'Re pissed.

    About PvP, I totally agree with the guy that said to go FPSing if you want PvP. WoW PvP is decided through gear and level. Go do some AV with a lvl 61, you'll see that you will never get to kill someone, even if you're the best mage on earth against some crappy warrior. In FPS, skill is the only thing that matters. As long as you got a weapon, your skill should determine whether or not you can kill the guy in front of you. Not if you have the best "omglookatthisbbqsauce" shoulders or the badass trinket.

    In the end, WoW is based on gear, purely and simply put. And gear is mostly random. That's the major problem in my opinion. You don't have enough gear? You can't see all the lore. You can't kill people in PvP. Simple as that. Even guilds who could give you the possibility of seeing all the lore need you to have the best gear available to actually enter the guild. How's that for social interaction? " you can't talk with us if you are not geared enough"

    I know, some of you will say "stop QQing and /wowquit". I'm just giving my opinion. That's one thing that separates people having a constructive discussion from people QQing all over the place.

  16. #56

    Re: Why WoW and its player base fail!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiens
    Heck for that matter try the old style Ultima Online, even that pvp was amazingly fun. (Unlike WoW pvp.)
    Oh yeah. UO pvp was hardcore PvP. IF you were alone, you could expect a very quick death, and you have to watch where you were casting your AoE unless you wanted to kill your own team.
    I am indestructible.

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  17. #57

    Re: Why WoW and its player base fail!

    I don't understand why people are so emotionally attached to WoW as if it was their beloved wife or something.And also their ignorance that when a person says a different opinion,not only to alert others but also because he loves the game and he wants to make it better,argue saying This is all crap!Noone cares!.That reminds me of mindless beings who are just sheeps waiting for being controlled.You must realise that the customers shall have the power and not the companies.If i dont like the product well either you make it better or just lose money from it.
    Imo WoW is a good game to play for about 6 months or so.The grinding part is known to all lvl 70 chars (and 60's before) so i can't understand why some ppl say oh no its not like that every time i raid the boss reacts different additional to me!I believe that is only an excuse to keep playing.
    I have stopped playing WoW since 3 months now,played 1 month to private server just to see the end game content as is was foretold but thats it.
    The right thing is that WoW is the best around now but I don't think that people play it only for this.WoW is the most advertised MMO and a good example was that Wildhorn said about Mac Donalds.
    Personally i realised this after 9 months of WoW playing:
    I played to go to 60 then 70 and saw all old player who had t2-3 to "get pwned" by these new features of tbc.It was really unfair to see myself accomplishing something they tried so hard to achieve.In the beginning i thought,omg this is cool i am going to get gear and get to one of the best guilds to get items!Somewhere in middle i realised i didnt want that.So despite having to grind all the time,to reach the goal of end game content you also had to be commited to some hardcore players who spent so much time to this game.Well i couldnt do that.As i couldnt say that i made friends.Friend is something more that ventrilo and ts.
    Furthermore I could never forget in outlands the quests.It was so crappy fun to see that you took a quest to kill 30 small brown birds,then deliver and kill again 30 bigger red birds and finally kill the one big grey bird!Heh it was really fun.Just some scale and power adjustment and thats it!
    Well,thats not new content.Thats reformed content.And imagining that you pay 13€ every month which is the most expensive payment in MMO along with l2.
    So as i see so far in 4-5 months i have 2 choices.First is to pay 45$ to get the next WoW expansion like i did with TBC and experience the same things readjusted and some new content,
    OR i could pay the same ammount of money to see an entirely new game,with an entirely new content.
    So new game WAR or overchewed WoW?
    I choose the first,thinking its more reasonable choice
    What would you do?

    Regards

  18. #58

    Re: Why WoW and its player base fail!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wildhorn
    ...
    Warcraft was supposed to be more PvP oriented at its beginning. But corporate drama (lol) and the main designers left it to create Arenanet (not sure of name but they are the guys who made Guild Wars). Then Blizzard hired their 2 "morons" which were PvE EQ freaks.
    ...
    I've seen that statement written quite a few times in different places - so I'm not "hitting" at you, but I wonder if there is any solid base to that. AFAIK (can be completely wrong) Kalgal and Tigole entered the team (and not as lead designers) in the last year/18 moths of development. Although "small changes" can have a strong impact on orientation and balance (as the TBC balance team so expertly proved by doing an incompetent job), I have doubts that the PVP/PVE orientation could be changed altogether in time and that - even if it was possible - that the "corporate powers" would allow it.
    Now, I wasn't on the closed beta, but I have the suspicion that most changes - besides the usually high standard of "polishing by Blizzard" - were incorporating user feedback and experience, which meant the PVP to PVE orientation was mostly a question of shading, because, truth is most people are not interested in PVP, and some that are were in FPS, not RPGs (on a side note, that is mostly the correct place).

    Now scripted events can be quite challenging, even simple ones. And there is always a certain degree of randomness, be player induced (e.g. Grulls shatter) or NPC created (e.g. Prince adds). Do not mix simple with easy, and many encounters are not simple to begin with. Actually, before discounting on raiders as "easy mode", the proportion of players that actually does end game instances and bosses is quite small - and not for lack of willingness. One may say that a well executed encounter is beat consistently and that there are no unbeatable bosses, but executing perfectly is far from easy - no Deus Ex Machina here.

    But, as I said, IMHO WoW is not the place for "good" PVP (in the sense that good = competitive and skill based). So, while it is a nice addition for people to have fun, it is far from being the fulcrum of the game (on aside note, I played GW before WoW - that IS PVP).

    Now, what did WoW get right?

    Plenty of things - entertaining classes, very nice spells and skills, playing style variety, quick paced action, great bosses, a very good effort/reward ration and psychological rewarding. Lots of entertaining add ons - not always performance connected - such as non combat pets, noflsomething elixir, orb of deception and gnomes were also a key part of the game attraction.
    The raiding was very nice and good - gave something for players to look for and the adittion of entry level raiding dungeons was spot on.

    They screwed up a bit of that in TBC - giving "free epics" is not the solution - people covet things they see and that they want, not something that all can get. Also they should have reworked the leveling to 70 (actually they should do so in all expansions) - if lvling from 1 to 60 was sort of spot on - to 70 was a bit too long (imho they should rework the leveling speed in all expansions so that no matter what the top level is, you always take about the same time to get there), riding and class roles/balance.

    Is wow today still a good game. I think so, personally just not good enough to keep playing - one of the effects of the TBC screw-ups - after one year of regular play. Still my favorite encounter is Nefarion

    Well, enough ranting, and sorry for the long text

  19. #59
    Moderator Nyanmaru's Avatar
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    Re: Why WoW and its player base fail!

    Quote Originally Posted by Duskfall
    I don't understand why people are so emotionally attached to WoW as if it was their beloved wife or something.And also their ignorance that when a person says a different opinion,not only to alert others but also because he loves the game and he wants to make it better,argue saying This is all crap!Noone cares!.That reminds me of mindless beings who are just sheeps waiting for being controlled.You must realise that the customers shall have the power and not the companies.
    Think about sports and hooligans, MMO-fans on the net are just the same as sport fans at home or on the court.

  20. #60

    Re: Why WoW and its player base fail!

    @grandphoenix

    Good post. I see you point.

    For me WoW is my perfect game for almost 3 years now. I love PvE, I love raiding, I love lore ... I just love the way the game is made .... but there is nowhere writen that this can't change

    And as you stated ... social interaction is maybe more that 50% of game. Without friends, WoW is fun no more.

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