Why WoW and its player base fail!

[Wildhorn]

Some player posted on wow forum a very interesting thread about why WoW wont be able to stay number 1 MMO when lets say Warhammer will release.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...38121668&sid=1

WoW is a money-making juggernaut, and there’s no arguing it. It has been an incredible financial success. Much like American Idol, however, WoW is popular but terribly bad. And the blame here lies on most of YOU (the playerbase) as well as the developers.

Let me explain a little here (if your IQ is less than 83, discontinue reading and /flame… if not, read on)…

How WoW fails because of the developers:

There are two clearly identifiable stages of play in an MMORPG (although they can be broken down separately further than this): the character building and the end-game. Both of these stages are necessary to the development and maintenance of a “good” game. A strong character building stage, although it can be time-consuming and boring at times, is necessary to give the game world and the characters within it meaning. This ‘character building’ stage is what makes you feel connected to your character, what helps you build initial relationships with other people in the game, and what gives you a reason to CARE when something happens to you.

The end-game is an equally (if not more) crucial part of the game because, theoretically, at some point the majority of the playerbase will be at this stage. This is the stage where, at least temporarily, you have all of your skills. You have all of your equipment. You have all of your enchantsments/enhancements/etc. Sure, you may change around your character a little in the future… but for the most part, you are DONE playing the game for the sole reason of numerically advancing your character.

WoW attempts to completely avoid this stage of the game by forcing players to engage in “grinds” to create their characters. As soon as the leveling grind is finished, a reputation grind is introduced. As soon as the “rep grind” is over, you need to grind honor, arena points, etc. This is a cheap, stalling tactic that is meant to do nothing but cover the fact that there IS NO END-GAME play. By the time you have “maxed out” your character with everything you NEED to be fully competitive with other players, there is a new expansion or a new set of items or something else that becomes a requirement.

In a GOOD MMORPG, there is no need for eternal character development. In a good game, there are fun activities to enjoy end-game. Meaningful PvP, sieges, city-building, and other activities have been utilized in other games in the past to provide activities for players beyond grinding for new equipment. After all… what is really the point for grinding for new equipment? In WoW, you run the same raid for the 500th time in hopes that your last piece of armor will drop… and what do you do when it has?

An easier example of this is the following: picture that right now, today, a GM came to you in-game and created a character of every race/class combination, insta-leveled them all to 70, and equipped them all with all of the best armor and weapons and such in the game (with the best enchants/gems/etc). I honestly think that most players, at this point, would realize there was NOTHING LEFT FOR THEM TO DO and quit WoW. Isn’t this a sign that there is something fundamentally flawed with the approach to the game?

A truly entertaining and well designed game would still be fun to play and have CONTENT outside of grinding additional gear or items. WoW needs to realize this at some point, or it will be its eventual downfall.

The developers of the game, however, aren’t the only ones who are the problem here…

How the playerbase fails:

That’s right, most of the people who are reading this post are actively contributing to the failure of this game.

I’m an active forum reader (although fairly infrequent poster) and the attitude of most of the people in the WoW community disgusts me. Someone makes a post about arena or honor gear, and is instantly flamed with 10 responses of “OMG THIS IZ FREE EPIX YOU SHOULD HAVE TO WORK FOR THEM BY RAIDING!”

You people do realize that “raiding” is a WoW/EQ ideology that really has very small place in future MMOs? You do realize that raiding is a GRIND activity where the most difficult part is coordinating enough people to actually show up and participate? I did some raiding prior to BC, and I have no idea how you people can all think that you somehow “earned” the right to be able to PvP (because you have gear in a gear-based game) simply because you joined a group of 39 other people who repeat the same exact sequence of events 3 nights a week.

The playerbase needs to realize that getting equipment is a means to an end and stop clamoring for things like new dungeons and more items which don’t actually add ANY CONTENT to the game. A new dungeon with new-looking monsters and a different map isn’t new CONTENT, it’s just existing content slightly morphed and increased in its level requirement. Rather, START clamoring for new real new content in the form of END-GAME CONTENT… city building, player housing, sieges, meaningful PvP, or anything else that makes an MMO an MMO.

Start making this feel more like a virtual world and less like a bunch of instanced, scripted encounters (which even BGs and arena feel like most of the time). A real game has player interaction to the point that you can become infamous for your deceit and rampant slaughter or famous for your defense of the innocent and upholding of values; gameplay that MEANS something besides making sure you get your 30% of your games so you can get your points and get something shiny to play with.

[Steeve]

why did you have to post this kind of crap wildhorn? :'(

I hate when people like him post useless crap like that, NO ONE CARES, and if you do, you shouldnt. It a bunch of bull.

I play WoW because I like it and if I didnt, I would play something else. Simple as that.
I dont like runescape, I personally dont think its a good game (no offense to any runescapiens) but I am not creating a list of reasons why it fails.

[overneathe]

This guy's an idiot, but he has a point on WoW player base.

[Steeve]

This guy's an idiot, but he has a point on WoW player base.

There are plenty of ways to ignore the player base, or find your own niche in the player base.

[overneathe]

There are plenty of ways to ignore the player base, or find your own niche in the player base.

If you want to play normally you can never ignore the player base.

[freakout]

I agree with steeve,
There are more then a thousand ways to ignore the stupidity of the noobs in wow. And about the new content that dude is wrong.. I mean meaning full pvp.. AV?
New raid dungeons are new content in my opinion. New mobs, new bosses, new items and new tactics. Thats the meaning of new content!

[overneathe]

No man, you cannot ignore that tank you were searching for like 3 hours before the instance. You could never guess he's an idiot. Same goes for that friendly hunter that filled the last spot.
That only enchanter that can make you mongoose.
That only guy that has tons of primal Might.
That single guy that can sell cooked food for your pet.
The only other 4 guys that need to do the instance you also need.
etc.

[Googolplex]

No man, you cannot ignore that tank you were searching for like 3 hours before the instance. You could never guess he's an idiot. Same goes for that friendly hunter that filled the last spot.

Don't Do PuG's ?

[avenger]

I'm not into raiding, i just don't have the patience for it... neither time for attending 30% of raids.
I'm a typical PvP freak who just doesn't find a guild with enough active members who can participate in a premade. I feel all alone in the WoW and I'm sick and tired of it
While Blizz is onmy focused on the PvE part, Warhammer will concentrate on PvP instead.
And don't start QQ about arenas and that shizzle, cuz arenas is for poor newbs.

I play 10 games a week and have a rating of 2.1k (which is top 15 on my BG group), but after those 10 games it's only skirmish for me which is too easy (no use continuing playing cuz then we just lose rating, as we get less focused)

[overneathe]

Don't Do PuG's ?

That's not really an answer. You know that.

[Deleted]

Mostly it is.
Guilds or simply a good friend list is what it takes to do instances in a fun way. I stopped doing PuGs long ago because it just wasn't worth the effort (looking for group, doing the instance in 7 hours with 3 complete change of groups, ...). There are good surprises too, but that's rather rare in the end so i just let it be.

There are things you have ot get somewhere else and for which you'll hav to pay, but that's not about the others being stupid, that's just economy.

[Clay]

why did you have to post this kind of crap wildhorn? :'(

I hate when people like him post useless crap like that, NO ONE CARES, and if you do, you shouldnt. It a bunch of bull.

I play WoW because I like it and if I didnt, I would play something else. Simple as that.
I dont like runescape, I personally dont think its a good game (no offense to any runescapiens) but I am not creating a list of reasons why it fails.

I play it because all of my friends play it, and it's really the only show in town. There's nothing more to it.

[Zwickel]

Did you notice that it wasn't Wildhorn that posted this? Hence the quote.
And if this game fails, why is it the most popular MMO with ~9 mil subscribers and the second most popular MMO is Lineage at 1 mil subscribers.

[spockette]

There are plenty of ways to ignore the player base

Like fishing? Woot, now thats where the fun of WoW is.

[CaptMurphy]

According to WoWjutsu.com
.75% of Guilds World-wide have downed Illidan

So 99.25% of the WoW Player Base has yet to "beat" the game.
I guess Blizzard is pretty smart to keep the overwhelming majority of their customers paying $15/month to "progress" and feel a sense of accomplishment.
Anyone who puts a post up that long, bashing the game they play, should probably just Uninstall and get inline for Warhammer now.

Please, QQ more cuz your wiping on Moroes,... in PuG's.

[aznthecapn]

I started playing because it looked new and interesting (WoW is my first MMO). I kept playing because of the rewarding gameplay ("HOLT SHIT LOOK AT THE GOLD SPARKLES WTF HAPPENED?!?!!!? I GAINED A LEVEL????? AWESOME!!!"). I continued playing because of new content just a couple levels away. I continued playing because I found a guild and made friends.

Eventually I reached endgame and immersed myself in theory craft and understanding the technical aspects of the game. I enjoy raiding because I feel a sense of accomplishment when we defeat a complex and difficult encounter. The quoted OP can say what he likes, its not hard to trivialize anything when you put it the right way, but raiding doesn't boil down to a basic scripted encounter you do 500 times. There's 24 other people who have to understand and execute the fight.

I don't really enjoy PvP. But it doesn't mean I am going to flame the PvPers and tell them they suck, etc. I could care less. I just let them be. They enjoy their game, I'll enjoy mine. The same applies to those who do neither due to time restraints. If they are content to run 5 mans ev everytime they log on, let them! It doesn't mean you need to declare that they "fail at WoW". That's an immature response and reeks of jealousy (whether its directed at a dungeon runner, a raider or a PvPer).

This game boils down to a social interaction. For most people, its a very attractive, very interactive chat room. Hence why so many people are guilded or talk in the various chat channels. Everything else in the game is just icing on the cake.

[avenger]

The previous poster is absolutely right!
Great way to formulate my kind of thinking
Maybe this way people will QQ less

[Pyrostemplar]

aznthecapn is indeed correct about a great deal of things.

I feel that some of the raging confrontations are rather childish - such as hardcore "nolifers" vs casuals "fails", pve'rs vs pvp'rs - but perhaps that is one of the things that show that wow has achieved as a game. If there is no spark and debate - however irrelevant, stupid, QQing it may be - players simply do not care enough for the game. People participate - such in this forum - because they care.

That said, WoW was a terrific game achievement, that managed to capture enough player base to become a self fulfilled success.

Nevertheless there are issues that may very well jeopardize wows future. For once I doubt Blizzard can do a TBC v2 without some serious questions being raised. Despite some very good design and very successful things, it failed miserably at cardinal game things (Class balance, gear and raiding ladder), and at the execution also.

And better designed, next gen, mmorpgs are also bound to put a dent on wow market.

We shall see...

[aznthecapn]

Nevertheless there are issues that may very well jeopardize wows future. For once I doubt Blizzard can do a TBC v2 without some serious questions being raised. Despite some very good design and very successful things, it failed miserably at cardinal game things (Class balance, gear and raiding ladder), and at the execution also.

Raiding ladder was unacceptable from my point of view. Far too much content being out being cleared at the same time. They definitely catered to higher end "top 5%" guilds in this one and it feels, from someone midway through content (4/6 SSC, 1/4 TL), as though we are seeing so much content without experiencing it. I preffered the slow release of BWL -> AQ40 etc. Hopefully they learned from this.

[Wildhorn]

why did you have to post this kind of crap wildhorn? :'(

I hate when people like him post useless crap like that, NO ONE CARES, and if you do, you shouldnt. It a bunch of bull.

I play WoW because I like it and if I didnt, I would play something else. Simple as that.
I dont like runescape, I personally dont think its a good game (no offense to any runescapiens) but I am not creating a list of reasons why it fails.

What he posted is not crap. This is a very accurate view of WoW.

I personaly have 5 lvl 70. I experienced all game content but BT and Hyjal. I am exalted with pretty much all factions, I played both side horde/alliance. I am here since the very beginning. And guess what? Raids are not new content. They are just scripted encounter that alway act the same. The only things you need to beat those scripts are:

1) Gears for it
2) Know where to stand and when to stand there

ALWAYS. You will never see a raid boss not doing what he is supposed to do unless there is some bug in his script.


You may ask "Why do you keep playing WoW Wildhorn?"

Because there is nothing else on the market at the moment and Warhammer doesnt want to give me a beta invite (the bitches!).

But as soon as Warhammer release, I move to there. WoW should have been PvP oriented (WARcraft) but because of the 2 lead designers (PvE whore junky from EQ) WoW didnt evolve in the rightway.

Warhammer will be new content
Every fight will be different (a player is not scripted)
You can "respec" in so many different way, that you could spec 1 different way every day the whole year (that is another WoW problem, too many classes that does the same job.)


Btw, is not because wow have 9 million subscriber and it is popular that make it a good thing.
McDonalds is popular but it still to be crap food.

WoW at somepoint was good and could have been great. IMO, the release of MC destroyed any hope WoW could have to be and stay a very good MMO.