Looking for a PVE Prot Warrior build

[Naytball]

So I have been having an argument with a fellow guildie about what is the best PVE Prot Warrior build. Recently he was told (and is appearently extrememly gullible) to go 0/0/61. This was a HUGE mistake. He is definitely having a hard time keeping aggro off of our high DPS and Healers. Currently we are working on downing the Prince at towards the end of Kara. What I need is a few of you to tell me "What is the best build to hold aggro and be defensive as a Main Tank in raiding?" Would any one mind linking below the best build they can come up with and why?

Here is a good site to use for a talent calculator
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=L

Much appreciated!

[Zamamee]

A good guide (including various talent specs) at: http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t18771-protection_warrior/

[Gnob]

8 / 5 / 48

Deflection + Imp TC = arms
Cruelty = fury
Imp sunder armor + 6 sec taunt + 30% more shield absorb are pretty standard in prot

for threat specific cruelty is genius.

You can always check out the bleeding edge guilds (nihilum , DnT , et cetera) warrs and gather some good spec info that way.

gnob

[shailiha]

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=LA0cZmZoEtoI0zcest

Its what my guilds warriors use and recomended me for my alt.

Edit: on my alt I've only tanked up to kael'thas/vashj, but it must work up to illidan since our MT uses it :-p

[Cronik]

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=Li0cZVZ0EtoI0kcest

Is a more Generic build

You usually get points in Imp Heroic strike for imp Threat generation, parry for mitigation, and imp thunderclap for further mitigation.

Cruelty because white strikes add up to at least 30% of your threat generation.

Tactical mastery is useless for a warrior, Blood rage you don't really need unless your really tapped for rage.

You dont really need imp Shield wall, but if im going to pop a 30 mintue cooldown, i would rather it last as long as it can.

The rest are generic almost mandatory protection skills.

[nellkee]

Imp. Heroic Strike is for offtanking (to waste spare rage).

Wrong, HS is not for offtanking. Yes, it's to waste spare rage, but you only have enough to do so when a mob is hitting you hard, so most likely a boss.
Improved taunt can be nice, depends of the instance and if the mobs are immune to taunt or not :P

Anyway, the builds shailiha and Windcape posted are both good, you should be ok with any of them

[shailiha]

Imp. Heroic Strike is for offtanking (to waste spare rage).

Not having 2/2 Bloodrage is FAIL FAIL FAIL. Nothing worse than a tank that can't get enough rage for the start.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=LV0cZVZbytoIMzcest , fixed version of yours

Have to disagree.

Imp Taunt is utter useless, if you have to rely on taunt to tank, you have to l2aggro.
1 point in bloodrage is enough to start with shield slam and get solid aggro.
Imp HS makes it very viable to spam HS with revenge and shield slam after the 5 sunders are up, increasing tps.

But to each is own.

[mmff]

I would pickup something like this:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=LV0e0hbZE0zNZfV0ssGk

- Mmff

[GardenGnome78]

I'm a huge advocate of tanks being 'tank' spec. But 61 points in Protection is detrimental because you are missing out on some key abilities elsewhere. I don't feel Cruelty in Fury is necessary (I've not had it in my tank spec for about a year now and I do just fine) but there is some real merit to a couple of skills in the Arms Tree. 5/5 in Deflection and 3/3 Imp. thunderclap are just lovely for tanks. +5% chance to parry an attack and avoid 100% of its damage? Yes please. Improved thunderclap slows time in between attacks by 20% and does enough damage/threat - when spammed - to help a warrior hold a couple of things on him/her. This is 20% less healing that your priest/pally/shammy/druids need worry about. So that's 8 points in arms that any serious tank should look at.

As for Protection I would go at least as far as Devastate. The recent changes make that skill pretty much a must have.. damage, sundered armor and extra threat - all in one attack? Again, yes please. Also noteworthy is that Devastate's damage is based on weapon damage, so the better your MH weapon, the more you get out of this.

Saying improved taunt is useless... that's a broad-reaching generalization. I do agree that a skilled warrior shouldn't have to spam it on their target.. but sometimes you get adds, cc breaks early, etc etc and being able to snatch a mob off your healer or dpsquishies is mighty helpful. Sometimes things happen and things you would not normally have to do save the day. There are going to be times where warriors simply will have to use taunt. Even the 'l33t' ones. That's the reason they have the skill to begin with. Not to remind you that you are a failure till you stop hitting it... because sometimes it makes/breaks a pull or encounter. In a perfect world Shield Slam would always crit for 2200+ everytime you use it and never miss.. sadly this is not a perfect world. :P

Due to Fear Ward nerfs Tact. Mastery is highly recommended, since in fear-heavy fights like Nightbane you can't afford a 90% rage drop everytime you stance dance.

And yeah... improved Bloodrage is something any warrior, any spec, can use. For tanks, it equals enough rage for the first Shield Slam of the encounter. That really says it all.

[Azain]

8/5/48 is one of the standard builds. but it also depends on what you are tanking for, for 5 mans and even raids where you may not have another warrior, its nice to have imp tclap. however in a 25 man, 1 dps warrior generally bites the bullet to get both imp tclap and imp demo shout, and play the support role.

imp taunt is a crutch, much like imp counterspell (wtb mage flame), if you can learn to play without it you will be better off, and you always have mocking blow and ae taunt for those oh sh!t situations.

[Azain]

btw i didn't notice it when just posting, but this is probably the wrong forum for this, perhaps a mod could move it in favor of keeping the guides section clean.

[Hellhammer]

actually i don't see much sense in impr. heroic strike
especially as a raid tank you will have a shitload of rage most of the time, so you really don't need this minor rage reduction
i'd definitely use the 3 points for 2/2 bloodrage and cruelty, crit is never a bad thing for rage and aggro generation
just my few cents

[Laiel]

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=LV0cZVZ0EtoGMdcest
nuff said

[Flautze]

I agree with Laiel,

The only difference is, that I would skill Imp Bloodrage instead of Imp SA, but that I guess is just how your preference is (alternately put them in IMP HS)

And for what I can say CRUELTY is absolutely lovely for tanking. I just feel the difference, since Cruelty more than double my Critpercentage, and thats a really nice aggro bonus.

For 25-Man I would definitely NOT waste points in Disarm/ShieldBash/Revenge
For 5-Man it does make a little sense, but still I wouldnt waste those points, since usually you should have other players with you who can Silence / CC.

My regular Aggro Roatation is something like:
Pop Bloodrage before Pull,
1. SHIELDSLAM as often as possible
2. then if possible REVENGE - (shiledblock usually helps you, so you can also use it as soon CD is over)
3. between CD of Shieldslam+Revenge Spam DEVESTATE
4. If you got problems to get your Rage lower than 100% I also use HS (until about 30, so I have enough left for Shieldslam/Devestate - Revenge is not a problem, since it only costs 2 Rage with Focussed Rage skilled)


Would be interesting to hear some other "Aggro Rotations"

[zappo37]

When i'm tanking i usually do this on a pull, Shield slam > Sunder > Sunder > Sunder >shield block > revenge > shield slam > Sunder > Sunder > devastate > Heroic Strike > and so on, that usually works for me.
and i would rather use this specc for Raids; http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/basics/talents/warrior/talents.html?050003000000000000000000500000000000000000001355511030002103531351

And This for Heroics;http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/ba...33020103001351.

[Decapitation]

you dont need to use sunder ever again since 2.3 or so

I removed it from bars, using only devastate

[zappo37]

Ehh.. have you heard of Devastate generates more Threat if the target is sundered, and what about Rogues, Fury/Arms Warriors, Catform Druids, Enhancement Shamans and so on ?

[Azain]

Ehh.. have you heard of Devastate generates more Threat if the target is sundered, and what about Rogues, Fury/Arms Warriors, Catform Druids, Enhancement Shamans and so on ?

ehh.. have you heard that devastate now stacks the sunder armor effect, thus allowing Rogues, Fury/Arms Warriors, Catform Druids, Enhancement Shamans and so on (ret pallies and hunter i assume, or BATTLE-MAGE!) to take full advantage...

/sarcasm

[Deleted]

ehh.. have you heard that devastate now stacks the sunder armor effect, thus allowing Rogues, Fury/Arms Warriors, Catform Druids, Enhancement Shamans and so on (ret pallies and hunter i assume, or BATTLE-MAGE!) to take full advantage...

/sarcasm

I lol'd.

Zappo, please check facts before making statements. Failure to do so leads to embarassment.

Another die hard for 8/5/48 spec here. Has done me fine and we've been killing Illidan for a few months now, so I'd hope I have some idea.

Some notes on other stuff people have said on talents:

Improved Taunt - not a fan of this myself, but this is a talent for increasing effectiveness on trash. Some trash will de-aggro or there is simply too much of the stuff and this talent can be useful then.

Tactical Mastery - not really necessary any more as a tank, since we retain 10 rage on a switch anyway and .... when do you ever need to switch stance? I do sometimes, sure, for intercept or to stance dance a fear, but that's about it and if you're using your rage efficiently, you're not going to lose much anyway.

The list of MUST HAVE talents in your prot spec are:
Anticipation, Toughness, Shield Spec, Last Stand, Defiance, One handed weapon spec, Shield Mastery, Imp Def Stance, Conc Blow, Shield Slam, Vitality, Devastate.

The rest is all down to personal preference and the content you are raiding.


Eg. I no longer have Imp Shield Block, as I have 103% avoidance, so every attack is guaranteed to be blocked if it hits me. With less equipment, this talent is VITAL.

[Azain]

Tactical Mastery - not really necessary any more as a tank, since we retain 10 rage on a switch anyway and .... when do you ever need to switch stance? I do sometimes, sure, for intercept or to stance dance a fear, but that's about it and if you're using your rage efficiently, you're not going to lose much anyway.

just to reinforce that, people also tend to forget that when switching to stance dance, you not only retain 10 rage, but you are popping berserker rage, ie generating extra rage when taking damage. so even tho you lose rage in transition, you gain it back quickly, even in defensive stance.