arena drinking change?

[Spiritmoon]

What do you people always complain about shadowmeld drinking?

It's close to useless, because
a) if you have to drink and shadowmeld, you are most likely a healer
b) if you are a healer you are either focused (no time to drink) OR you have a pet on you of any kind (and pets find you in stealth = no drinking for you, even if shadowmelded) OR there is too much pressure on your teammates so you have no TIME to drink, cause you need to heal
c) if you are no healer, then your enemies suck if they allow you to get out of combat, find a place to hide, drink for more than 6 seconds

Imho they should fix pet aggro while shadowmelded, cause at the moment it's yet another useless nightelf racial

[chaud]

What do you people always complain about shadowmeld drinking?

It's close to useless, because
a) if you have to drink and shadowmeld, you are most likely a healer
b) if you are a healer you are either focused (no time to drink) OR you have a pet on you of any kind (and pets find you in stealth = no drinking for you, even if shadowmelded) OR there is too much pressure on your teammates so you have no TIME to drink, cause you need to heal
c) if you are no healer, then your enemies suck if they allow you to get out of combat, find a place to hide, drink for more than 6 seconds

Imho they should fix pet aggro while shadowmelded, cause at the moment it's yet another useless nightelf racial

Someone doesn't play 2s.

[Ordin]

What do you people always complain about shadowmeld drinking?

It's close to useless, because
a) if you have to drink and shadowmeld, you are most likely a healer
b) if you are a healer you are either focused (no time to drink) OR you have a pet on you of any kind (and pets find you in stealth = no drinking for you, even if shadowmelded) OR there is too much pressure on your teammates so you have no TIME to drink, cause you need to heal
c) if you are no healer, then your enemies suck if they allow you to get out of combat, find a place to hide, drink for more than 6 seconds

Imho they should fix pet aggro while shadowmelded, cause at the moment it's yet another useless nightelf racial

/fail

a) Guess you don't play with hunters, I drink far more on my hunter than I do on my priest
b) And your teammates are doing what exactly?
c) Crowd control is your friend...

Shadowmeld is one of the most powerful pvp racials due to how important it is to drink in arena, especially in 2v2. The 10 second cooldown is way too short, it should be closer to a minute like every other racial.

[Elgrosesti]

Guys
Learn to conserve mana, if it was just about me, drinking in arena would be removed
Ive done many fights with bunch of nubs wasting their mana then go drink and make the fight really really long.
Some nubs are abusing of that and its very annoying.
Of course if you get mana burned by a ****ing priest, drinking is required
If you know what is LoS, you should be able to deal with it without drinking

If you cant win an arena without drinking, Im sry, you derserve to lose it

[Crimsonak]

Guys
Learn to conserve mana, if it was just about me, drinking in arena would be removed
Ive done many fights with bunch of nubs wasting their mana then go drink and make the fight really really long.
Some nubs are abusing of that and its very annoying.
Of course if you get mana burned by a ****ing priest, drinking is required
If you know what is LoS, you should be able to deal with it without drinking

If you cant win an arena without drinking, Im sry, you derserve to lose it

As much as I completely disagree with the whole "Learn to converve mana" argument set forth, mainly because it's completely rediculous to say. It's pretty hard to "waste" mana if you know what you're doing in an arena. Unless run around as a paladin spamming seal of righteousness on yourself and holy lighting everything. Or something with some other class to that effect.
But like I said that wouldnt be knowing how to play.

However I do agree with the possibility of calling off water alltogether in arenas. I mean sure it would be a pain but atleast everyone is on an equal playing field then. And there isnt the advantages that some races have other others like people have been moaning about.
This said though, you have to look into what it would mean for the people who's racials are only really primarily useful for drinking. I mean shadowmeld, other than drinking. All you can really use it for is to hide for a while at the beginning.. not really a massive advantage. So truthfully if you're going to look into removing water alltogether, realistically you have to look at balancing/removing racials from the arena aswell..
Which means this entire subject is very risky to go into or change drastically due to player responce.

[chaud]

However I do agree with the possibility of calling off water alltogether in arenas. I mean sure it would be a pain but atleast everyone is on an equal playing field then. And there isnt the advantages that some races have other others like people have been moaning about.

I suppose melee DPS can't DPS after a set length of time as well then?

[Crimsonak]

I suppose melee DPS can't DPS after a set length of time as well then?

No, it's still equal playing because anyone can choose to melee DPS if they want to.
Plus you can't really compare removing drinking and melee DPS.
If you remove drinking and you become oom and thus unable to DPS. Chances are someone on the other team will be suffering the same.
If you have a team like rogue-rogue. Matches like that won't last long enough for someone on the opposite team to go oom anyways.

[Azain]

No, it's still equal playing because anyone can choose to melee DPS if they want to.
Plus you can't really compare removing drinking and melee DPS.
If you remove drinking and you become oom and thus unable to DPS. Chances are someone on the other team will be suffering the same.
If you have a team like rogue-rogue. Matches like that won't last long enough for someone on the opposite team to go oom anyways.

are you really saying in that first statement that casters/healers should choose to melee dps? please tell me you aren't pitching a battle mage in this thread...

yes you can compare drinking and melee dps, it allows ALL classes the same amount of staying power. long games only happen because of drinking, if it weren't for that any game over 5-6 mins would be won by the team with the warrior/rogue.

correct double rogue teams wont outlast a full mana bar of some classes, but they probably could. with all their CDs and stuns and bandages and running away i bet they could give a shadow priest or other mana inefficient classes a real good run at it.

[Crimsonak]

are you really saying in that first statement that casters/healers should choose to melee dps? please tell me you aren't pitching a battle mage in this thread...

yes you can compare drinking and melee dps, it allows ALL classes the same amount of staying power. long games only happen because of drinking, if it weren't for that any game over 5-6 mins would be won by the team with the warrior/rogue.

correct double rogue teams wont outlast a full mana bar of some classes, but they probably could. with all their CDs and stuns and bandages and running away i bet they could give a shadow priest or other mana inefficient classes a real good run at it.

The team with the warrior/rogue would not always win because any member in their team would also be oom and thus unable to heal him or dps. Mana has a limit for a reason, it's so that you can't last forever.

Also you misinterpreted what I said about people choosing to melee if they want. That was my fault though because I wasn;t clear in what I meant. It was in responce to "I suppose melee DPS can't DPS after a set period of time" My point being that no, because everyone has the ability to melee if they so choose to. Yes obvious for most classes it's just a total and utter waste of time. However you cant place a limitation on something like melee damage when you're still capable of doing it when you're oom aswell.

As I said mana has a limit for a reason. If you cant drink yes it forces you to conserve your mana or end a fight quickly. However in my opinion thats how it should be. All teams with no healers rely on ending matches quickly.

Like I said originally though I didn't say "This should be done END OF" I actually said I would agree with the possibility of it happening. As whether you think it gives melee DPS an advantage or not. It actually doesnt because people on their team have mana aswell.

[Azain]

The team with the warrior/rogue would not always win because any member in their team would also be oom and thus unable to heal him or dps. Mana has a limit for a reason, it's so that you can't last forever.

i think that would make double dps teams op in 2v2. regardless i agree with you that mana has a limit, and i think the combat rules should be changed in terms of arena drinking, but this seems to be the temporary change.

[jizzyburnizzy]

*dies from laughing*

No, seriously, Blessing of Wisdom? *dies again from laughing*

still dont understand what he is laughing at. blessing of wisdom restores mana...the poster was listing off abilities of classes that could regen mana. what are you laughing at?

[Azain]

still dont understand what he is laughing at. blessing of wisdom restores mana...the poster was listing off abilities of classes that could regen mana. what are you laughing at?

the poster was me...maybe he's a jaded paladin

[Ordin]

Removing drinking would effectively remove mana based dps from 2v2 and 3v3 (except probably warlocks). Every team you see would be based on warriors and rogues.

There is no way a hunter could possibly compete against a warrior in a 2v2 match if the hunter couldn't drink. If drinking is deemed too powerful, fine nerf it. I'll adjust my play style so that I set up situations where I can drink for longer periods of time instead of frequent 2-4 second drinks. But suggesting to remove drinking is suggesting to remove hunters from 2v2.

[frosty]

problem as I see it is that some classes, like druids and priests, have a much easier time making room for drinking. They can throw hots/shield, or just run away as druid, to buy enough time to get a few seconds drinking, whereas paladins are forced to be ready at all times and shamans as well if there's a dispeller for earthshield.

With mana draining/burning being such a big part of arena these days, it's simply unfair that it's easier for some classes to get drinking time. Though I agree that drinking should not be allowed while shadowmelded, or make it break shadowmeld.

then night elves have no racials, taurens get war stomp and extra hp

[Azain]

Removing drinking would effectively remove mana based dps from 2v2 and 3v3 (except probably warlocks). Every team you see would be based on warriors and rogues.

There is no way a hunter could possibly compete against a warrior in a 2v2 match if the hunter couldn't drink. If drinking is deemed too powerful, fine nerf it. I'll adjust my play style so that I set up situations where I can drink for longer periods of time instead of frequent 2-4 second drinks. But suggesting to remove drinking is suggesting to remove hunters from 2v2.

depends on your situation, part of the reason for such a great imbalance right now in smaller arenas is drinking. a shadow priest or mage just blows their load at the start, max dps and CC ignoring mana efficiency, then they run away and drink 30% back in a few seconds. i'm not in favor of removing it but nerfing it more than it was.

as for a warrior/healer or rogue/healer. the healers have mana too, and if they couldnt drink im sure every as a hunter you would be able to wear them down. if no own could drink think about how hunters would dominate priests even more in arenas.

[Ordin]

depends on your situation, part of the reason for such a great imbalance right now in smaller arenas is drinking. a shadow priest or mage just blows their load at the start, max dps and CC ignoring mana efficiency, then they run away and drink 30% back in a few seconds. i'm not in favor of removing it but nerfing it more than it was.

as for a warrior/healer or rogue/healer. the healers have mana too, and if they couldnt drink im sure every as a hunter you would be able to wear them down. if no own could drink think about how hunters would dominate priests even more in arenas.

Ok, hunter/healer vs warrior/healer. Both healers and the hunter go oom around the same time, guess who wins? Pretty sure the warrior. Warriors and rogues would dominate 2v2 more than they already do. The only reason hunters are viable in 2v2 is because they can drink. Sure, I'd dominate priests more than I already do, but they are the only healer that can't dispel poison, so I'm not really concerned with being able to dominate 1 of the 4 healers at the cost of losing to the other 3 (yes I know shamans and paladins barely exist in 2v2, I'm mainly concerned with druids obviously).

I see no problem at all with allowing drinking in arenas, overall it allows for combinations that otherwise would not be viable. I'm sure I'll adjust to the drinking nerf, and who knows, maybe it'll help me more than it hurts since healers won't be able to get those 2 second drinks off.

[Azain]

Ok, hunter/healer vs warrior/healer. Both healers and the hunter go oom around the same time, guess who wins? Pretty sure the warrior. Warriors and rogues would dominate 2v2 more than they already do. The only reason hunters are viable in 2v2 is because they can drink. Sure, I'd dominate priests more than I already do, but they are the only healer that can't dispel poison, so I'm not really concerned with being able to dominate 1 of the 4 healers at the cost of losing to the other 3 (yes I know shamans and paladins barely exist in 2v2, I'm mainly concerned with druids obviously).

I see no problem at all with allowing drinking in arenas, overall it allows for combinations that otherwise would not be viable. I'm sure I'll adjust to the drinking nerf, and who knows, maybe it'll help me more than it hurts since healers won't be able to get those 2 second drinks off.

imo thats the reason is was done, to stop the 1-2 tick drinking of healers. on another note, if you as hunter/healer (healer largely being druid with a hunter) cannot outlast a warrior/healer (most likely druid again, altho the others are possible) then something is terribly wrong. shamans and paladins are not hard to drain at all with a scorpid pet, especially with the support of your healer. if you cannot oom their healer with scorpid facing a zero burn team again, something is terribly wrong with your play style. warriors are a JOKE to CC for a hunter and more so for a hunter/druid combo with shaman or druid as healer. even with paladins arcane shot the freedom and go right back to CC'ing. viper while im rooting and the paladin has choices to make.

i got from trap to scatter to root to trap to feral charge on and on, generally if we win against hunter/druids its a factor of luck or bad play on their part. so to answer that point of yours no warriors would not dominate your combo in particular. rogues are of course a different story. locks never need to drink, priests have shadowfiend, mages get buffed gems + evocate. its not like classes have zero means of regaining mana. *again im in favor of nerfed drinking mechanics (more so than it is now), and not removing it entirely, but given how much you were against it i feel the need to argue the point.* rogues and especially warriors are only as good as the healers who carry them (rogues are viable with another dps, but best with a priest or druid imo), and those healers drinking is what creates these 40 min outlast games.

[Ordin]

My point was that as warrior/druid vs hunter/druid the first person to be oom in this match is going to be the hunter if no one can drink. Once the hunter is oom the druid can basically just stay in bear form forever and barely have to heal because auto shot doesn't do much damage against high armor targets.

When we face warrior/druid is it a constant juggle between me and my druid keeping our mana bars up while we slowly wear down the opposing druid's mana.

Anyway, the argument is somewhat irrelevant since they are not removing water (thankfully) just reducing it's effectiveness in really short drinking periods.

I'm honestly not sure if that is going to be a good thing or a bad thing for us. I can certainly see how nerfing healer drinking will be a bonus for a drain team. But at the same time, nerfing my drinking (and my mana drain) will hurt.

Either way, I plan to buy my shoulders before the patch hits just in case :P

[DaDragonFly]

>>My point was that as warrior/druid vs hunter/druid the first person to be oom in this match is going to be the hunter if no one can drink.

Hmm, I do not think you are playing it correctly then,...u are burnign way to much mana. You should not be burnign any mana on DPS until their druid is oom. You should have ur pet on the druid non stop, and viper/silence any time he goes into caster form, force him to shape-shift to try to kite (cat) or tank (brear)...if its cat, then u concus shot and follow him, keeping wing clip on, and the viper will darin in cat form. In bear form, you scatter then beast fear....and the scorpid poisons are ticking away on him, and while feared you can load up a mortal shot, then autoshot some DPS in, maybe force a shape shift to caster form, where you hit him with viper/silence again. Forcing the druid to shape shift take a lot of mana out of him... so use that in concert with the viper stings. Druids have stgon kiting abilities, but hunters have a lot of skills to counter that, with scattter/concus-shot/frosttrap/wingclip/beastfear...you should be abel to keep a druid close by. This only works if you are 'warrior-free' and your druid is ccing the warr well. At some point you may need to get a 'scatter/trap' on the warr to help your druid out...but time it with a beast fear so that it does not mess up ur control of their druid.

The entire time their warr is CCed by your druid. Basically u never let their druid go into caster form or cat form without paying the price of gettin mana drained...and in bear form you control them with scatter/fear beast..... it take stime, but you should never get below 50% mana and the druid will have to make a choice, get mana drained, or get low health from scorpid stings ticking away. Once the druid is OOM you can make your move to kill him or warr.

[chaud]

You haven't read it wrong, but we've decided to have that rule only apply inside arenas. It's an inconsistency, but one we're ok with to prevent water from feeling unnecessarily weird everywhere else.