Twin Eredar, TTR Arena Battle, Warlocks in WotLK

[Avex]

Yes warlocks are the problem in 2s no wait those stats showed 276% druid in 2s :P

and as far as fear being the best cc I guess you missed the non-dispelable, anti-healing spammable cyclone. :

[Qsad]

Blizzard doesn't try to balance every class so they are all equal. Blizzard gives each class strengths and weaknesses and the game is to put together two classes which balance each other (talking about PvP).

In raid, there's no way a lock can get in front of a rogue/mage in matter of DPS or Damage Done. The best DPS-classes obviously are the hardest ones to play (meaning to find a good balance in your gears, spec' etc...), the best examples probably are Moonkins, Elem/Enhanc Shamy and Warladins. I don't see how it's hard to spam Shadow Bolt between a couple of dots or to put only +9 SP/+4 crit +5 SP gems since you don't need much hit in Affli/destruct'....

[Pyrostemplar]

In raid, there's no way a lock can get in front of a rogue/mage in matter of DPS or Damage Done. The best DPS-classes obviously are the hardest ones to play (meaning to find a good balance in your gears, spec' etc...), the best examples probably are Moonkins, Elem/Enhanc Shamy and Warladins. I don't see how it's hard to spam Shadow Bolt between a couple of dots or to put only +9 SP/+4 crit +5 SP gems since you don't need much hit in Affli/destruct'....

Nothing like a good laughter

[dsmet]

Blizzard doesn't try to balance every class so they are all equal. Blizzard gives each class strengths and weaknesses and the game is to put together two classes which balance each other (talking about PvP).

In raid, there's no way a lock can get in front of a rogue/mage in matter of DPS or Damage Done. The best DPS-classes obviously are the hardest ones to play (meaning to find a good balance in your gears, spec' etc...), the best examples probably are Moonkins, Elem/Enhanc Shamy and Warladins. I don't see how it's hard to spam Shadow Bolt between a couple of dots or to put only +9 SP/+4 crit +5 SP gems since you don't need much hit in Affli/destruct'....

have you ever tryed playing a holy priest (or for that matter any healing class) in a 25man raid??

[Inept]

It's odd how so many people can complain about warlocks, especially rogues. Since when has it been hard for a rogue to kill a warlock. Granted once they hit 400+ Resiliance they become difficult but before that there is no contest. Mages, for example,have so many ways to free themselves from melee classes. I don't understand why people get upset when warlocks might get something similar. Against a melee class, the only thing a warlock currently has is Deathcoil, and drain tanking.

[Pyrostemplar]

It's odd how so many people can complain about warlocks, especially rogues. Since when has it been hard for a rogue to kill a warlock. Granted once they hit 400+ Resiliance they become difficult but before that there is no contest. Mages, for example,have so many ways to free themselves from melee classes. I don't understand why people get upset when warlocks might get something similar. Against a melee class, the only thing a warlock currently has is Deathcoil, and drain tanking.

A fire mage is all but a free kill to a SS rogue/warrior, although a frost is more balanced and still has a (not so big) upperhand against warriors... You see, the other side of the thing is that melee also have many ways of closing the distance. Personally I think locks could use some avoidance/getaway kind of skill regarding melee units.

On the other hand they need a huge nerf versus casters, namely mages.

[Healingprick]

Have you ever tryed warrior vs warlock? He will dot and drainlife you until you die and there is nothing you can do with it

Have u ever tried warrior vs warlock?!?!? Bcaus im seriously doubting that. The dots will tick, drain life will tick but as much as u interupt it and MS us, we mostly die first. If a warrior got a bit of skills this must be a reasonable good fight u have a fair chance to win.

Ps. I guess it will yust scale with gear in these battles, bcaus this will be yust draining and the warrior nuking so depends if u can drain much and keep health up

[Histasius]

We definitely feel the need for warlocks to gain some sort of active defense so we don't have to try to balance them around the assumption that they're "tanking" melee classes. For example, an idea we're running with internally is the concept of a warlock being able to cast a spell that places a circle of demonic power on the ground. The warlock would be able to teleport to this location from within a relatively short range (ie: 40 yards), and would also be able to summon demons more quickly if they're standing within the circle.


Not to jump the gun since it's planned for wotlk but..

is it just me or does that sound like an unneeded buff to warlocks?

Dude this is Kalgan the Anti-Warlock. Here I'll translate for you...

We definitely feel the need for warlocks to gain some sort of active defense so we don't have to try to balance them around the assumption that they're "tanking" melee classes.

That says Soul Link removed. The part about the 'blink' is a 31 point loldemo replacement POS all-viewable 2-3 second summoned but instant castable portal.

What he'll accomplish in this 'buff' is to make warlock into a mage without ice block, shields, etcetera. Mark me on that, and see.

On the other hand they need a huge nerf versus casters, namely mages.

Rogues need a nerf, namely against locks then. It's called a counter class you're supposed to be destroyed by them. Mage used to do that to Warriors until Kalgan got his hands on them and buffed them into insanity.

Personally I'd love to see all classes on the same scale of skill (*cough* LOL) > class like that, but I highly doubt with his buttbuddy playing Rogue you'll see that class get the same balance to Lock as Warrior did to Mage, or Mage will to Lock.

In every single category in 1850, Warlocks are above 100% representation. In 2200+, they are above 100% representation in 2v2 and 5v5, with a 93% representation in 3v3. Not bad.

TBH I wouldn't be quoting Kalgan's 'representation' numbers as gospel, the figures are easily questionable, and likely bent to using Warrior class as an axis point given their sum representation sits right at 100%. Probability says that shouldn't happen. Kalganism says it will because they don't need nerfing (while he's still playing it).

[Healingprick]

It is normal, Kalgan play a warlock, so he gonna buff his own class

O my god ROfl,

Seriously. If some1 announce the warlock debuffs, its Kalgan becaus he cant stand warlocks. He yust reversed the lifetap nerf bcaus he was seriously getting baaaaad feedback.

Kalgan normaly gets the locks nerferd since he is a warrior. And what ur whining about the new spell. Its WotLK!!! All classes get new skills, so this is yust a preview wich might not even get implemented. Its far from a buff... else u would say that TBC also would be great buff for all classes...

[Pyrostemplar]

Rogues need a nerf, namely against locks then. It's called a counter class you're supposed to be destroyed by them. Mage used to do that to Warriors until Kalgan got his hands on them and buffed them into insanity.

Read my previous paragraph: "the other side of the thing is that melee also have many ways of closing the distance. Personally I think locks could use some avoidance/getaway kind of skill regarding melee units."

Either nerf rogues (something thst should be done imho, but I may be biased), or buff other class abilities against them.

[Digitrevx]

In raid, there's no way a lock can get in front of a rogue/mage in matter of DPS or Damage Done. The best DPS-classes obviously are the hardest ones to play (meaning to find a good balance in your gears, spec' etc...), the best examples probably are Moonkins, Elem/Enhanc Shamy and Warladins. I don't see how it's hard to spam Shadow Bolt between a couple of dots or to put only +9 SP/+4 crit +5 SP gems since you don't need much hit in Affli/destruct'....

Rofl, I just registered to tell you what a nub you are.


For others that don't get why ppl fear news like this is because you don't give locks current cc enough credit. Fear gives them all kinds of free attacks while you can do nothing. Its essentially like a rogue cheep shot and you never get a counter off. Difference is the lock can drain life/mana while he put distance between you and himself.

Not to mention HS, high end dps, and pets. Talk about hax.

I see other range classes having to work to keep rogues and warriors away through kiting then I look over and see a lock standing in one place fearing ppl away while DoTing. I see no reason for any lock cc buffs.

So now you think something similar to blink is the kind of buff they need? That sets up a whole new rotation of fears. If your angry because rogues beat you, think about priests and how screwed they are. Go pvp a shadow priest, I dare ya.

[Pyrostemplar]

Rofl, I just registered to tell you what a nub you are.


For others that don't get why ppl fear news like this is because you don't give locks current cc enough credit. Fear gives them all kinds of free attacks while you can do nothing. Its essentially like a rogue cheep shot and you never get a counter off. Difference is the lock can drain life/mana while he gets distance on you.

Not to mention HS, high end dps, and pets. Talk about hax.

I see other range classes having to work to keep rogues and warriors away through kiting then I look over and see a lock standing in one place fearing ppl away while DoTing. I see no reason for any lock cc buffs.

So now you think something similar to blink is the kind of buff they need? That sets up a whole new rotation of fears. If your angry because rogues beat you, think about priests and how screwed they are. Go pvp a shadow priest, I dare ya.

You took the post seriously?

I thought it was a joke really...

[Miedo]

Go pvp a shadow priest, I dare ya.

[Dsswoosh]

Warlocks definately need balancing, a buff in some places, a nerf in others.

When a lock is left alone he is devastating at 100% locking someone down. i.e. a warlock can chain fear a palladin till immune, then deathcoil, then spelllock, then finish off with curse of tongues while the rest off the dots kill the palladin. Then start the fear process over again. Its a no brainer 100% lockdown.

I play a lock and i will wholeheartedly agree i can do this to palladins. (and a few other classes, druids (not resto), mages for example)

Now heres the flip side. While ive locked down the palladin and killed him in 10-15 seconds (or longer), a rogue or hunter will come up to me and kill me in 3 seconds. Sometimes 2. I am 485 resilience and soul linked, and yes rogues and hunters can do this to me.

If i try to cast fear as a defensice mechanism the spell pushback is so great it can take 10 or even more seconds to fully cast. And ofc this is more than enough time to have my shadow spells locked out.

Warlocks need an escape mechanism when they are being focus fired. Its another no brainer. Any class with no defence is useless, and it simply isnt fair being killed in 2 or 3 seconds with nothing you can do about it.

Warlocks need BALANCING.

This means an escape mechanism from insane dps'ing rogues hunters (and alot of times warriors).
This also means taking away the ability to 100% lockdown another class by the use of chain fears, spell locks, deathcoils.

I would happily trade my stamina (currently my ONLY form of defence when im being focus fired), for a skill that allows me a fair escape mechanism.

This is the sole reason why locks are very strong in 2v2 and 3v3, but quite weaker (generall speaking, i know there are some imbah locks) in 5v5.

edit - if any blizz dev's read this aswell, no lock likes playing sl/sl, its friggin boring. and no sane lock will spec anything else coz all other specs are like wearing paper for armour. If you gave locks self banish (like has been mentioned a million times, an escape mechanism (like this new version of blink idea)) and some better spell pushback resistance, a way to pretect fel aroumr from being dispalled so easily, and pet scaling so that the pets have a % of the masters resilience, and NERFED soul link to 10 or 15% dmg mitigation, you wouldnt have so many unhappy locks forced to spec sl/sl and you wouldnt have so many pissed off players thinking they cant kill a lock and/or fed up of being chain feared to death. (make fear work like blind btw, instant cast, mob runs around for 5-10 yards MAX, but it breaks on ANY damage). And you wil get alot more happy customers .

[Deleted]

Everybody hates locks because there is ONE out of the 5, 6 or 7 possible builds that is overpowered and all the noobs are using it.

Play a destro warlock in pvp or stop bitching.

This is the most retarded thing to say, ever. So you have 1 spec that's good in PvP, so what? Do you hear protection warriors moan they suck in arena? Or fury warriors for that matter? No, cause they do their dailies, and respec for PvP. So don't give me bullshit like: warlocks need 1 spec for both PvE and PvP, that would be the most OP thing ever...

[Digitrevx]

Dsswoosh:

Giving a lock blink or a self banish similar to the way ice block works for mages will open up a chain of ability abuse.

I can see locks doting up everything they got then self banashing while their target stands and dies. Mean while their fears are cooling for a fresh rotation when they come out of banashment.

Or a lock blinking and opening up a whole new free rotation of fears. Results in even more lock down for other classes.

You can't tell me you wouldn't do either if you had those abilitys just to win.

[Decapitation]

Dsswoosh: no one will kill you within 2 seconds, dont say bulls..ts. No escape mechanism? Deathcoil and fear maybe? Warrior attacking you? Dot him and keep drainlifing till he die. With SL he CANT kill you until you kill him (unless you suck badly)

Your pvp build is boring? Warriors has one pvp build with MS, do they QQ here that its boring?

[Dsswoosh]

As i said, locks need balancing.

No more, no less.

The combination of chain fearing, spell lock, curse of tongues, deathcoil in certain situations is overpowered.
And mellee (rogues, hunters and warriors) training on locks is gives a lock 0% chance of winning.

For example all a bm hunter has to do to beat a lock is cast the beast within, arcane shot and auto shot. If hes feeling particularly evil he can lay a snake trap. There is ZERO a lock can do.

I agree with the concerns of abuse. Dot dot dot, blink may be overpowered. But there is no denying, that in the current build of wow, locks are human punchbags for mellee with zero they can do to escape apart from stack stam (which causes many people pulling their hair out (ie mages) because they simply dont have the burst to eat through all the hp))

And no, to the person above me, locks cant drain tank warriors at all anymore, mortal strike is just too great for the lock to get any decent hp back in many situations. (im talking arena, not 1v1, which yes warriors suck very badly at)

People need to have an understanding, that locks are forced into the sl/sl spec. Nerfing the spec even more has damagin affects to other lock pvp builds and all it does is force more and more locks to spec this way.

If the other trees (particulalry destro) had a blink like ability, it would encourage locks away from the godforsaken sl/sl build, and rather than stacking stam and relying on chain fearing, locks would actually be able to do seomthing else.

The problem is becuae people who dont play locks are pulling their hair out at trying to eat through a locks stamina are the same people who cry "locks need nerf", and "omfg, soul link is friggin op", and they simply do not understand that the other trees for lock pvp need a buff in order to get sl/sl locks playing another spec.

But when people like me try to explain "locks need a buff in other trees" or "locks need an escape ability", all the people that dont play lock just reply "omfg, no way do locks need a buff" or "omfg you cant beat a warrior, all you need to do is draintank, l2p noob".

Its kind of frustrating, because most locks are asking for a "fix" or a balance, which does indeed meaning buffing destro or affliction, and possibly nerfing sl/sl.

To back up what i am saying, i will use season 1 as a prime example. Unstable affliction was a very good spec in season 1. And there was also some very skilled locks (drakedog) being able to do well with destruction. Throughout all of season 1 people cried very badly locks needed a nerf, and while in many cases this may have been true (ie the season 1 sl/sl locks), locks did in deed get nerfed. this affected destruction and affliction to such an extent that come season 3 and into season 4, nearly all locks are now sl/sl. Do you see whats happened, all the lock nerfs have forced people into this spec.

Teh 41 point talent shadowfury is a 100% pvp lock talent. How many destro locks do you see? My guess would be less than 1%. Why is this? Because the enrfs made to locks have simply meant that it isnt a viable season 3 or season 4 spec for 99% of warlocks (your always going to ge the odd one or two super human skilled korean players able to pull it off).

Cries of "nerf lock" has simply put locks in a corner of 1 boring (still overpowered in many cases) spec, and the same people are still pulling theeir hair out thinking locks are overpowered.

Give destro locks and affliction locks more options for pvp specs (which yes does involve giving locks buffs), and youll start to see the sl/sl spec not being used as much, and this can only be a win / win situation for everybody.

And i shall repeat, FEAR is NOT an escape ability. It is either used offensively, or as an interupt. There is absolutley NO way a lock can pull a fear off with a mellee on him. Deathcoil IS an escape ability, but its a 2 minute cd and affects ONE target. Many classes have at least one way to escape an absolute focus fire rapeing. Locks do not. And this makes them the "human punchbags" of the game, leaving locks only one option. Stack resilience, stamina, spec sl/sl, dot everything up, then bend over and take the beating and hope your gear allows you to live.

[Azain]

For example all a bm hunter has to do to beat a lock is cast the beast within, arcane shot and auto shot. If hes feeling particularly evil he can lay a snake trap. There is ZERO a lock can do.

without critiquing your entire post, 1 tick of hellfire owns snakes. incase you didn't realize it their health was greatly greatly nerfed a while back.

also sl/sl is the most popular spec because people know how to play it. UA is viable in 2v2, 3v3 and 5v5 with the right combo. spriest and druid come to mind in 2v2. as does paladin. 3v3 spriest and ele sham is deadly. 5s is a bit more open. however you must have 500 or more resil and tons of stam to make it viable, but it is viable.

ua/druid is great, cyclone one while you completely dot up the other, or time up a UA with a cyclone coming off CD and dot up something else.

[Dsswoosh]

UA is viable in 2v2, 3v3 and 5v5 with the right combo. spriest and druid come to mind in 2v2.

orly?

http://www.sk-gaming.com/arena/2/all/warlock/all/all/