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  1. #41

    Re: New 2.4 Build - Classes and TTR changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynxgmc
    No. Get off all ur gear. Look on mana now. This is ur base mana.


    Now about lifebloom. In 1st PTR build emproved rejuvenation (tier8 talent in resto tree) now will works with final lifebloom tick. It's +20% from bonus healing.
    In this PTR build we have -20% from bonus healing to lifebloom overall. Resto druids now have same lifebloom what they have on live, but feral and moonkins got nerf. Yes, nerf moonkin and feral more =) Thats what we need.
    In other words. Blizzard doesn't know jack shit what they are doing. Kalgan lost to a Holy paladin in 2v2 last night with his Warrior - druid setup so its time to "fix" things.

    Isn't it becoming very obvious this isn't about balancing ? Or did no1 see the 247% number from druids in 2v2 compared to paladins 19% ? And woopsy ... Kalgan is loosing now so lets change back !!

    "Paladins are good for farming" - Hmm - wonder who said that ?

  2. #42

    Re: New 2.4 Build - Classes and TTR changes

    I really like you Daedalon.

  3. #43

    Re: New 2.4 Build - Classes and TTR changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynxgmc
    No. Get off all ur gear. Look on mana now. This is ur base mana.
    so i took all my gear off and i got ...

    3728 Base Mana so calculation ...

    3728 : 100 = 37,28 x 21 = 782,88

    and old blink is 665

    so this is a nerf

  4. #44

    Re: New 2.4 Build - Classes and TTR changes

    21% of BASE mana is the what you have undressed. I can't remember what my mage is right now, about 3500X0.21=735mana. This is a change from the current blink cost of 28% BASE mana 3500X.28=980mana. The changed to spellsteal, blink and invisibility are nice for PvE but in PvP like when I am trying to use Spellsteal as a Dispel on a sheeped priest, I can blow through half my mana before I break the sheep. Looking at the results of what Blizzard thinks classes should show in the arena teams and how they are right now, I think they are trying their hardest to break the little buffs that look so innocent like +15% travel form. All I know is, with the new Imp blink talent, cost decrease and getting my 4th piece of glad set this week, i'm going to be spamming it with a smile. Now if they just make it banish a nearby demon so those stupid felhunters will stop bending me over...

  5. #45

    Re: New 2.4 Build - Classes and TTR changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Lawlcoil
    Amazing healers how? Overall? 2v2? PvP in general? Pve in general? Just like all healers, they range from great to mediocre depending on which facet of the game you are talking about. The grass is always greener, resto druids are not as awesome as you may think
    oh

    did u read this ?

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.php?topic=4957.0

    Read the PVP class balancing part. 247% versus 19% ?

    Nah - not so special. Considering that holy paladins will no longer be viable in 2.4 raiding content Id think you should not talk about classes beeing good in one field and bad in another. The name buffadins is starting to sound familiar again. But now its 30 mins buff so you can just leave them outside instances instead of bringing them with you inside.

    Paladins are the new "Elixirs" of WoW.

  6. #46

    Re: New 2.4 Build - Classes and TTR changes

    My issue personally, is that the role of a Healadin is rapidly depreciating.

    Druids had their HoTs, Shaman had their AoE heals, Paladins were the best at single target healing while Priests could handle all three facets decently. At this point although Shaman and Priests heal for more with their 1.5 second cast heals than Paladins, Paladins downranking HL with proper talents/gear/buffs could still pull out ahead in the single target department in both HPS and HPM.

    Then gradually patch after patch we see the constant whittling down of our healing potency, efficiency, and mana regen.

    -Blessing Of Light nerf with downranked HLights.
    -4 Piece T5 nerf


    At this point the HLight build suffered tremendously and all but died out. But we still maintained a decent lead over the other classes in mana efficiency to secure our own place in the healing lineup. At least until the next few patches heavily boosted the mana efficiency of the other healing classes.

    -Meditation and Intensity had their effectiveness doubled.
    -Watershield turned into a free perma 50/mp5.
    -Spirit Healers getting a massive regen buff in 2.4 with regards to spr based regen.

    While paladins get:

    -Libram of Souls Redeemed/Absolute Truth nerfed to idiot proportions
    -Insightful Earthstorm Diamond nerfed

    So patch by patch our healing output and mana efficiency is lessened while other classes who already have A) far more healing options than us B) actual mana restorative abilities and C) higher HPS output with their 1.5 and 2.5 sec heals maintain their superior Healing output and receive further boosts to their mana efficiency!?

    Currently in an endgame raiding environment, you bring your paladins for the blessings and then you stick them on healing the MT not because they're the best at it, but because that's all they can effectively do.

    One-trick ponies aren't so impressive when all the other ponies know the same trick and then some.

  7. #47

    Re: New 2.4 Build - Classes and TTR changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Daedalon
    Oh .. Enlighten me then ? what class is suffering more ? How many Retri paladins do you think are wearing full tier 6 now ? Compare that to warlock and Priests maybe ? Same tokens you know...
    ...
    Retri Paladins are not a class, but a tree. You probably won't see many demon locks or disc priests with T6 either.

  8. #48

    Re: New 2.4 Build - Classes and TTR changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Daedalon

    Nah - not so special. Considering that holy paladins will no longer be viable in 2.4 raiding content Id think you should not talk about classes beeing good in one field and bad in another. The name buffadins is starting to sound familiar again. But now its 30 mins buff so you can just leave them outside instances instead of bringing them with you inside.
    I'm not all that familiar with pala buffs, but I'm under the distinct impression that they disappear as soon as palas leave the party. Unlike mage and druid buffs.

  9. #49

    Re: New 2.4 Build - Classes and TTR changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Daedalon
    did u read this ?
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.php?topic=4957.0

    Read the PVP class balancing part. 247% versus 19% ?
    Did you read it yourself ? I also see 80% vs 147%. I won't enter the debate on what's better or not, but look at the whole picture please.

  10. #50

    Re: New 2.4 Build - Classes and TTR changes

    Why is nerfing all about Arenas now, what happend to PVE?

  11. #51

    Re: New 2.4 Build - Classes and TTR changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Dessimus
    Why is nerfing all about Arenas now, what happend to PVE?
    PvE is for casual players now.
    PvP is for hardcore players now.

    Blizzard balance for the hardcore.

  12. #52

    Re: New 2.4 Build - Classes and TTR changes

    Im casual and all i do is pvp :P

  13. #53

    Re: New 2.4 Build - Classes and TTR changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Pyrostemplar
    Retri Paladins are not a class, but a tree. You probably won't see many demon locks or disc priests with T6 either.
    Took the words right out of my mouth. Holy paladins are fine in PvE and retribution paladins can keep up if they are worth their salt.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pyrostemplar
    I'm not all that familiar with pala buffs, but I'm under the distinct impression that they disappear as soon as palas leave the party. Unlike mage and druid buffs.
    No greater paladin buffs last for 30mins and lesser ones for 10.

  14. #54

    Re: New 2.4 Build - Classes and TTR changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Lebeau
    While paladins get:

    -Libram of Souls Redeemed/Absolute Truth nerfed to idiot proportions
    -Insightful Earthstorm Diamond nerfed
    Libram of Souls Redeemed is currently -27 mana cost. They briefly buffed it on PTR to 84 now that has been changed and it is being buffed to 35. It is a smaller buff but still a buff.

    IED was hugely buffed in the last patch, they increased the proc chance from 2% to 5%. In the 30 seconds it takes you to cast 20 flash of light now that metagem returns 300 mana, or is equal to 50mp5s for a FoL spamming paladin.

    Quote Originally Posted by insidelane
    Quote Originally Posted by Pyrostemplar
    I'm not all that familiar with pala buffs, but I'm under the distinct impression that they disappear as soon as palas leave the party. Unlike mage and druid buffs.
    No greater paladin buffs last for 30mins and lesser ones for 10.
    You are mistaken, lesser buffs can be cast on anyone and last the 10 minutes, the greater buffs however can only be cast on people in your group or raid and will be removed the moment the casting paladin leaves the group or raid.

  15. #55

    Re: New 2.4 Build - Classes and TTR changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Skulver
    Libram of Souls Redeemed is currently -27 mana cost. They briefly buffed it on PTR to 84 now that has been changed and it is being buffed to 35. It is a smaller buff but still a buff.

    IED was hugely buffed in the last patch, they increased the proc chance from 2% to 5%. In the 30 seconds it takes you to cast 20 flash of light now that metagem returns 300 mana, or is equal to 50mp5s for a FoL spamming paladin.

    You are mistaken, lesser buffs can be cast on anyone and last the 10 minutes, the greater buffs however can only be cast on people in your group or raid and will be removed the moment the casting paladin leaves the group or raid.
    8 mana. yea its a buff by definition. *insert wanking sign here*

    FoL spamming paladin? how many of those do you know? if you FoL spam in a fight where you're MT healing, you lose. The fact that you even bring this up indicates you really dont play or know anything about holy paladins. Let me break it down. I'll use the priest example but I can do it for any other healing class. Hell shaman can single target heal just as well as us and no one brings them to raids for that. They have the OP chain heal...

    But I digress...

    Our max rank HL is 840 (with all talents) mana and heals like 3-4k (without +healing).
    Max rank Greater heal from a priest is 720 mana (with talents) and heals 5.5-6.5k (without +healing)

    Sure we have illumination (our only *nerfed* talent regen that our whole tree is built around), but they have clearcasting, and meditation, and that one spell that makes a spell cost no mana. Priests are able to stack much higher +healing as their gear is properly itemized for regen. It either comes with spirit or Mp5 which allows more stats to be put in healing. Ours has to come with crit AND mp5 which forces the amount of healing on our pieces to be lower. To sum it all up, priests casts bigger heals for less mana while regenerating mana at a faster rate than paladins. They can also HoT, Aoe heal, flash heal, insta cast heal, prayer of mending, and shield targets. We get BoP on a (properly talented) 3 min c/d. Did i mention that when specced disc, they survive longer than plate wearing paladins in any form of pvp.

    yea... Have you looked at the Holy paladin tree? Seen anyone spec into it? there are some useless talents in there. Sure there are things that people pick up to be a bit more viable like Imp LoH and Aura mastery. I even know people who have purifying power, but thats useless. WTF is blessed life. Gimme a break. Our tree sucks and BC did nothing but make it even more dull and more UP.

    In other news, greater buffs definitely disappear when you leave a group in which a paladin gave you the greater buff. 10 min buffs do not. We could 10 min buff everyone for boss fights then leave though :/

  16. #56

    Re: New 2.4 Build - Classes and TTR changes

    Actually FoL spamming on a MT is viable once you have the gear, BoL is on the tank, and there are other healers on the MT. You just have to gear yourself more like a shaman instead of the typical paladin. To successfully heal with FoL spam you need to stack pure +healing gems and have the 4 piece T6 bonus.

    Take http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...idan&n=Thannis for example. His FoL heals for 2.2kish non crit. However FoL spamming is quite boring, so having a decent HL and FoL rotation while healing is essential for the "oh crap" moments to top your assigned healing target off.

  17. #57

    Re: New 2.4 Build - Classes and TTR changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Dje
    Did you read it yourself ? I also see 80% vs 147%. I won't enter the debate on what's better or not, but look at the whole picture please.
    And maybe the whole picure of 80% in 5v5 has somehing to do with 247% in 2v2? And 80% makes druids crap in PVP? Wait till you go down to 20% in any bracket and you might have a point. But you know s well as me ur talking bull here.

  18. #58

    Re: New 2.4 Build - Classes and TTR changes

    Quote Originally Posted by insidelane
    Took the words right out of my mouth. Holy paladins are fine in PvE and retribution paladins can keep up if they are worth their salt.

    No greater paladin buffs last for 30mins and lesser ones for 10.
    Oh - and retri paladins can get retri T6 set when they have to spec holy to get it then ?

    Your talking absolute bullshit here.

  19. #59

    Re: New 2.4 Build - Classes and TTR changes

    Concerning the 21% of base mana, as I play a gnome mage it is even worse :

    4376*0.21 : 918.96

    The current blink cost is 627.... Weren' they supposed to lower it, rather thant upping to by 291 !
    They must have made a mistake somewhere >


  20. #60

    Re: New 2.4 Build - Classes and TTR changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Skulver
    Libram of Souls Redeemed is currently -27 mana cost. They briefly buffed it on PTR to 84 now that has been changed and it is being buffed to 35. It is a smaller buff but still a buff.
    LoSR is not the mana redux Libram Skulver. It's the one that increases the benefit from Flash of Light. On live it's barely better than the Blessed Book of Nagrand in that it grants only 26 more unmodified +healing IF the target is under the effect of Blessing of Light (which in a raiding environment won't happen to anyone but the MT/OT unless you have 3+ paladins).

    With 2.4 the LoSR is getting nerfed by about 45 points. It will currently increase FoL's healing effect for 19 less than the BBoN. Great. Nice to know that a level 64 quest blue is now better than a level 70 epic that drops randomly from a raid boss in the middle of a 10-man, attunement requirement dungeon. /sarcasm

    IED was hugely buffed in the last patch, they increased the proc chance from 2% to 5%.
    Can you cite your reference on this one? The proc chance has not been increased at all to my knowledge and has not been documented in the Official Patch Notes nor in the Undocumented Changes on either MMO-Champion, WorldofRaids, WoWhead, or WowDB.

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