DPS/Healing Group compositions

[tjanson]

I'm in a 5/5 MH 5/9 BT guild, working on RoS. My question involves group setups: Our sole shadowpriest(also our GM) usually puts himself in a group with a resto/elemental shaman, a lock/mage, a boomkin, and a hunter.
Healers rarely, if ever, get him in their group, and don't usually have a resto shaman either, as one goes to the casters and the other to the rogues for windfury. Am I correct in thinking this is a little crazy? Some examples of other BT group setups would be much appreciated.

[Edeila]

Goes to overall raid comp. Also depends on whats killing you. Lack of Healz, dps, ect ect.

[Liceder]

By the looks of it I'd say he's putting together a uber sustained ranged dps group, going for have Wrath of Air Totem, Boomkin Aura, Lots of mana regen and presuming a BM hunter for the extra dmg buff. I'd say it's strong group to have unless your healers do have mana troubles and/or need the extra shaman healing buff.

[tjanson]

No, I know what the group does... obviously it's a high dps boosting group. My question though is: Is this typical?
Obviously on certain fights like Supremus and Shade, or the entirety of MH, it's not a strain on heals, but Najentus, Gorefiend and Bloodboil can get dicey. How do YOU have your healer groups set up on those fights?

[Rich]

No, I know what the group does... obviously it's a high dps boosting group. My question though is: Is this typical?
Obviously on certain fights like Supremus and Shade, or the entirety of MH, it's not a strain on heals, but Najentus, Gorefiend and Bloodboil can get dicey. How do YOU have your healer groups set up on those fights?

We usually have 2 shadowpriests and 2+ resto shamans. We split them in to two groups. So it ends up being something like:

Group A
Shadow Priest
Resto Shaman
Mage
Mage
Paladin/Lock

Group B:
Shadow Priest
Resto Shaman
Holy Priest
Lock
Paladin

Something like that.

[Slor]

Tbh it's lack of spriest that's killing your group comps. Here's what my 5/5 9/9 guild is running:

G1(tank grp):
MT
OT
Feral tank
Tree
<x>

G2(melee grp):
Feral
Rogue
Rogue
Fury war
Shammy

G3(random):
Healers mostly here, with the 2nd shadow priest and maybe an offspec'd hunter (surv/marks) that doesnt give a party-specific boost

G4(spell dps):
Lock
Spriest
Elem shammy
Lock
Mage

G5(random)
Everything else =) Mostly healers and the occassional off-class.

[Jaydenyie]

Usually we see SP, COH healer, COH healer, Resto shaman, Holy paladin
But.. we also have a 2nd SP in our caster DPS group

SP, Mage, Mage, Lock, Resto shaman

Unfortunately we also have G3 be a semi-filler group.. like.. 2 healers, a spare melee dps and 2 hunters

So.. in total.. avg group setup

G1 - Tankgroup - Prot war, Prot war, Prot Pala, Resto druid, Warlock with Imp (usually afflic)
G2 - Melee Group - Ret pala, dps war, enh shaman, rogue, and 1 other (usually another rogue or BM hunter)
G3 - Feral druid (4th optional tank), Mage, Disc priest(or other available healer), With remaining 2 slots with filler dps.
G4 - SP, shaman (Ele or resto), Mage, Holy Paladin, Lock
G5 - SP, COH healer, COH healer, Resto shaman, Holy paladin

Side notes:
- sometimes we have the prot pala put on healing gear, get stuck in the SP's group, and the feral druid moved into the tank group if its a more healer heavy fight, or non-melee friendly.
- Sometimes we dont have the 2nd SP, so one of the other healers or caster dps comes down to G4 group from G3


-- This fulfils the 3-4 tanks needed (with a holy paladin in full S3 being a semi-viable 4th OT if really needed), 7 healers, or 8 if no elemental shaman. with the remainder being DPS

USUALLY COH spec priests burn through mana extremely quickly, and therefor need the Manatide/spring and SP to do their job effectively.

[tjanson]

Well, thanks guys for the input and examples. I'll try and take this to my GM and hopefully we can fix it. I'm tired of running out of mana on Bloodboil and Gorefiend. :P

[Red]

I agree with Slor, it's definitely your lack of SPriests, resto shamans, and your GM is being selfish. Our guild is just starting Hyjal (After a 3rd night kill on both Vashj and Kael) and we can afford to bring one or even two healers less than is recommended because we usually have 2-3 Spriests. Our group composition is usually something like this...

Group 1:

Prot pally
Prot warrior
Prot warrior
Resto druid
Resto shammy/Prot warrior (Depending on fight)

Group 2: Healers, Usually
Holy priest
Holy priest
Holy pally
Resto shaman
Spriest

Group 3:

Warlock
Warlock
Warlock
Warlock/Spriest (Depending on who is there)
Mage

Group 4:

Rogue
Rogue
Fury Warrior/Ret Pally (Depending on whether we need 4 tanks or 5, and don't laugh at our ret pally :P)
Feral Druid
Enh shaman

Group 5:
Spriest
Leftover healers
Hunters.


Everything I've read says in BT/Hyjal resto shammies are king, and the totems (+Spell dmg, mana tide, mana spring) really help out your caster groups.

And tell your raid leader that topping the charts isn't what's important, he doesn't need +3% damage, 5% crit, etc. Instead, he needs to keep your healers stable on mana so they can last the fight. Our SPriests do 900-1k DPS, but they still know they're utility, and won't top the charts against our 4 warlocks.

[SimTex]

We run with two shadow priest usually and they are in groups like: (MH/BT)

Group A
Mage
Mage
Mage
Shaman
Shadow Priest

Group B
Shadow Priest
Mage/Warlock
Priest
Pala
Healer/DPS

Rest of the healers must do without shadow priests for most encounters, not a big problem though since the other healers are usually shamans. If we are down to one shadow priest, it usually goes to the mages.

[Blitzz]

While we were learning all the BT/hyjal fights we tried to give as many healers sp as possible. The only fight I make sure all healers have a sp is bloodboil now, we usually run with 2 sp.

Other than that i try to get specific healers sp for specific fights.

Naj-gorefiend really doesn't matter, your healers should do ok without. Although on gorefiend it is nice to move people around during the fight, someone with constructs doesn't need a sp.

Bloodboil as i said above i try to make sure all healers have a sp.

Ros no healer should need a sp, Mother i try to get a tank healer or two along with a couple raid healers in a sp group. Council the rogue tank healer shouldn't need one, neither should the mage tank or priest tank healer. I do try to get main tank healers a sp for that fight though, they have so much other crap to worry about.

Illidan i try to move people around during the fight. p1 really doesn't matter but i try to get all dps in sp group. p2 i put raid healers and maybe 1 tank healer in the sp group, once p3 starts i switch the sp back to the dmg group.

Easy way to fix your melee dps issue is get an enchancement shaman, kinda a waste of a resto shaman for him to be in the melee group.

[Kasdingo]

For bloodboil we stack a healing group this way:

pally
pally
pally
heal priest
SP

That group's pallies spam heal the tanks during p1 and the fel rage person during p2. They also take bloodboils and the heal priest heals them. The heal priest doesn't take bloodboils though the lock in the MT group for his imp takes it for him. This group is stationary. The other 2 bloodboil groups rotate around them so their healing isn't interrupted by having to move.

Our second SP is in the second bloodboil group using VE as a health buffer mostly.

I heal the 3rd bloodboil group with my tree druid. Since the 3rd group only gets 1 set of bloodboils per p1, my group isn't taking damage during p2. This allows me to hot up the tanks to keep them up while the pallies are healing the fel raged person.

So the 1st group is the MT healers. 2nd high hp ranged dps+ their healer. 3rd low hp ranged dps+their healer.

The MT group is 3 tanks, imp warlock and shaman. Melee group is 2 rogues, fury warrior ,feral druid and whatever random person is in the 25th raid slot.

When we go to use the bloodlusts of the shaman they are switched into the group that has the most mages. Then they are switched right back out.


Bloodboil is a very trivial fight for us using this set up.

Healing on Gorefiend only becomes an issue if several healers get to go play ghost. As long as the dispelling is quick there isn't too much raid damage that 2 shaman shouldn't be able to handle. If your shaman are having mana issues they probably have some gear or spell choice things to work out.

Naj'entus again isn't that bad. If you are having mana issues it is probably an assignment vs. discipline issue. The only weird thing we do on that one is the MT group.

MT
prot pally in healing gear
tree druid
tree druid
imp warlock

Since tree druids have no mana issues and can toss hots around while still healing the MT this group is designed around healing ourselves from the shield damage without needing a full time healer.

The MT doesn't require much healing. If your raid is spread out well and you get spines removed quickly the raid doesn't need a whole lot either except for the shield damage.

The main thing is discipline. Stick to your assignment and regen when you can instead of leaching onto someone else's assignment. The MT healers shouldn't need help, and other groups should only need help if their healer gets the spine in them. Teamwork, execution and discipline will fix any Naj'entus mana issues more than switching group set ups will.