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  1. #21

    Re: Dragonblight Preview, blue posts

    Wow...to all those comments of "Don't come back blah!" WoW is NOT the end all be all of MMO, having more people doesn't mean you're the best, means you're main stream. God help us if we want a change in scene. Sometimes the same dwarf swinging the same recolored stick just doesn't do it for us, so we like to span out. Lot of blizzard emps trollin these forums I see...

    Anyway The screen shots are not impressive when put up to these other online titles coming out, and considering it's been 4 years since release it's really time for some overhauls. The saying if it aint broke dont fix it I'm sure is the Blizzard motto, having so many millions of subscribers. That's why a new game with a smaller (smarter) community is so appealing to those gamers who are just plain tired of not playing the Dev's favorite class.

    6 out of 10 for the screen shots on Bliz standard graphics

    3 out of 10 imo.

    Edit for comma splice and spelling.


  2. #22

    Re: Dragonblight Preview, blue posts

    Quote Originally Posted by Okhlopkov
    Removing arenas and battlegrounds from the game would go a long way towards fixing class balance. PvP was a little minigame tacked on the side of an awesome PvE game, and as it stands PvP and its whiners stand to absolutely ruin the game. People on the forums like to say that Warhammer will kill WoW, but in the end it will be the PvP counterstrike kiddies.
    I agree with your sentiments. I've always felt that PvP was more of a minigame that you could do in your free time while playing WoW. And I also think that the majority of changes in this patch particularly have been done solely to accomodate PvPers. Just look through the past fortnight or so's worth of news posts on this site, and almost every change made in patch 2.4 will have next to no effect on PvE. It's all been done just for PvP's sake. And if these changes do have an effect on PvE, it's a negative one; changing something which was fine before, simply because an ability is being over-used in arenas. And yet despite these changes, pretty much everyone still flames them!
    I'm waiting to see how things will turn out in WotLK, but I really do think the increased PvP they've put into TBC, with arenas in particular, has had a negative effect on my game.

    I do appreciate that a lot of players do love to PvP, and it's just about the only thing they do in the game. But some of us never PvP, don't care about class balances in arenas, and get really tired watching the massive flame wars which erupt based on discussions about PvP balance. You don't get flamewars about class balance in raids, for the simple reason that it's perfectly fine. Any problems in raid balance are easily overcome by guild leaders, but PvPers and arena teams seem totally incapable of overcoming any 'imbalance'. I think the phrase "counterstrike kiddies" you used perfectly describes a lot of PvPers; especially the more vocal ones.

  3. #23

    Re: Dragonblight Preview, blue posts

    I feel as if pve gear needs a buff. Why go through all the trouble working your way up to a raiding position in a good guild to get average gear.

  4. #24

    Re: Dragonblight Preview, blue posts

    Quote Originally Posted by iindigo
    I don't know if anybody else thought this, but to me, the terrain looked much, much sharper in the video - it looks as if Blizzard has upped the overall resolution of the terrain in Northrend by a good deal.

    It looks very good, the human town that looks about the size of Hearthglen or maybe bigger excites me too - finally, a non-main city that you can't fit in the palm of your hands!


    The Graphics are being upped. Blue post stated that the graphics will be the one thing they are upping. Not requiring Vista, but will me more stringent Video requirements now.

  5. #25

    Re: Dragonblight Preview, blue posts

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluerain
    The Graphics are being upped. Blue post stated that the graphics will be the one thing they are upping. Not requiring Vista, but will me more stringent Video requirements now.
    Shouldn't be a issue since this game was built for technology 3 years ago.

  6. #26

    Re: Dragonblight Preview, blue posts

    I'm tired of people peeing in everyone elses' cheerios. PVP players getting great weapons along with a full set of gear that sucks for raiding does nothing to prevent you from killing bosses and getting your own phat lewts. Just the same, you getting sexy sunwell gear doesn't keep PVP players from enjoying BGs and Arenas. Everyone can be a special snowflake.

    The only argument that ever has any validity is the one against PVP balancing affecting PVE. To be honest though, I'm pretty sure that Blizzard will make sure that whatever happens to PVP balance, people will still be able to spend the majority of their evening hours sucessfully participating in scripted encounters, with the accompanying rewards.

    And any arguments about gear are lame at this point anyway, it's obvious that Blizzard is lowering the bar in preparation for WotLK, just like they did before BC.
    Serious Business

  7. #27

    Re: Dragonblight Preview, blue posts

    And graphics upgrades are for teh win. Despite its age, WoW still looks better to me than any other MMO I've seen. Updates will only make it that much better.
    Serious Business

  8. #28

    Re: Dragonblight Preview, blue posts

    Zomg, Blizz announced that they were releasing a frostmourne replica.

    http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...86962157&sid=1
    http://www.epicweapons.com/products/frostmourne/
    Draconicfire: Level 70 Destruction Warlock
    Draconictank: Level 70 Protection Warrior
    Draconicseal: Level 70 Holy Paladin

  9. #29

    Re: Dragonblight Preview, blue posts

    PVP is main reason I've continued playing since TBC came out but I still have all reputations Exalted that semi-casual non-raider can, if you want to play PVE only go to EQ2, if you want to PVP only go to Guildwars..
    If you want hardcore game, don't play WoW, this hasn't been one since TBC. Get over it, been year already.

  10. #30

    Re: Dragonblight Preview, blue posts

    Quote Originally Posted by highwind
    2.3 Wep rundown

    Best PvE 2 Hand:
    http://www.wowhead.com/?item=30902 (138 DPS)
    Best PvP 2 Hand:
    http://www.wowhead.com/?item=33688 (134.2 DPS)
    The damage per hit of both weapons is identical. And the gladiators has additional stats which make up for the slightly reduces white damage.

    Not that it matters much, since 2 hand weapons are relatively pointless for PvE. Only arms warriors and retardins use them and both specs are subpar to their alternatives there.

    Best PvE "Mainhand" non-Dagger Wep:
    http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32837 (109.3 DPS plus much higher basedmg cause of slower Speed)
    Best PvP "Mainhand" non-Dagger Wep:
    http://www.wowhead.com/?item=33762 (103.1 DPS)
    Right. Because an extremely rare ledgendary (which is also only useable by 2 classes) where several guilds which have farmed BT since ages *still* haven't got a set is totally compareable to a PvP weapon which is far, far...FAR easier to obtain.
    The magic word here is availability. If the PvP weapon had a rating requirement of 2500 then you might have a point.

    Best PvE "Mainhand" Dagger Wep:
    http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32471 (106.1 DPS plus much higher basedmg cause of slower Speed)
    Best PvP "Mainhand" Dagger Wep:
    http://www.wowhead.com/?item=33754 (103.1 DPS)
    "Hello, I keep comparing weapons by their dps and ignore their stat bonuses."

  11. #31

    Re: Dragonblight Preview, blue posts

    Hello,

    I have mmo-champion and worldofraids.com as the two site i visit in a daily basis, actually several times a day, but i usually don't post anything, for example, here it's my first post, and i actually registered to reply on this post specifically.

    Quote Originally Posted by highwind
    2.3 Wep rundown

    Best PvE 2 Hand:
    http://www.wowhead.com/?item=30902 (138 DPS)
    Best PvP 2 Hand:
    http://www.wowhead.com/?item=33688 (134.2 DPS)

    Best PvE "Mainhand" non-Dagger Wep:
    http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32837 (109.3 DPS plus much higher basedmg cause of slower Speed)
    Best PvP "Mainhand" non-Dagger Wep:
    http://www.wowhead.com/?item=33762 (103.1 DPS)

    Best PvE "Mainhand" Dagger Wep:
    http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32471 (106.1 DPS plus much higher basedmg cause of slower Speed)
    Best PvP "Mainhand" Dagger Wep:
    http://www.wowhead.com/?item=33754 (103.1 DPS)

    Best PvE Ranged:
    http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32336 / http://www.wowhead.com/?item=30906 (95.8 DPS)
    Best PvP Ranged:
    http://www.wowhead.com/?item=34529 (93.2 DPS)

    Spreading false information ftw ?
    Every PvE Wep of its kind is considerably better than its PvP counterpart and with 2.4 the gap gets even bigger (compare f.e. Apylon with S4 sword)
    You made your first mistake on the quote above, which was, comparing PvE and PvP weapons on stats alone, you forgot about comparing the ratio of effort vs reward on each weapon, so i'm going to do it for you.

    Let's assume were speaking of above average PvEr's (raiding BT/Hyjal) since it's the only way of getting those PvE weapons, vs above average PvPer's (let's assume a 2000 arena rating):

    Best PvE 2 Hand:
    http://www.wowhead.com/?item=30902 (138 DPS)
    Drops from Archimonde, last boss in Mount Hyjal with an average 16% drop chance.

    Best PvP 2 Hand:
    http://www.wowhead.com/?item=33688 (134.2 DPS)
    Costs 3750 arena points:
    5 weeks in a 2vs2
    4 weeks in a 3vs3
    3.5 weeks in a 5vs5 (4 weeks if the player has 0 arena points when started to 'work' for it)

    Best PvE "Mainhand" non-Dagger Wep:
    http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32837 (109.3 DPS plus much higher basedmg cause of slower Speed)
    Drops from Illidan, last BT Boss with an average 6% drop rate

    Best PvP "Mainhand" non-Dagger Wep:
    http://www.wowhead.com/?item=33762 (103.1 DPS)
    Costs 2625 Arena points:
    3 weeks in 2vs2
    3 weeks in 3vs3
    2 weeks in 5vs5 (3 if the player has 0 arena points etc etc)

    Best PvE "Mainhand" Dagger Wep:
    http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32471 (106.1 DPS plus much higher basedmg cause of slower Speed)
    Drops from Illidan last boss in BT, with an average drop rate of 17%

    Best PvP "Mainhand" Dagger Wep:
    http://www.wowhead.com/?item=33754 (103.1 DPS)
    Costs 2625 Arena points:
    3 weeks in 2vs2
    3 weeks in 3vs3
    2 weeks in 5vs5 (3 if the player has 0 arena points etc etc)

    Best PvE Ranged:
    http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32336 / http://www.wowhead.com/?item=30906 (95.8 DPS)
    Drop from Illidan last boss in BT with an average drop rate of 23%
    Drop from Archimonde last boss in Hyjal with an average drop rate of 13%

    Best PvP Ranged:
    http://www.wowhead.com/?item=34529 (93.2 DPS)
    Costs 3750 arena points:
    5 weeks in a 2vs2
    4 weeks in a 3vs3
    3.5 weeks in a 5vs5 (4 weeks if the player has 0 arena points when started to 'work' for it)

    So, for starters, on PvE you get a random number generator messing you earnings, as an example, you knew there are guilds farming illidan for several months and never saw 1 shield drop ? and not even 1 legendary ? and then IF and IF the weapon drops you might not win it, as other people want it and your 'competing' with them to get the weapon.

    Really, the dps difference in PvP vs PvE weapons is irrelevant, the stats are more important for that insignificant dps difference, so basically you just shot u're own foot by comparing that as it clearly shows that it's better to go for PvP weapons instead of PvE, mainly for 2 reasons:

    a) effort/reward ratio is laughable, AND you know when it's comming, you know that it's in 2 or 3 weeks you are getting that weapon FOR SURE
    b) you don't have a random number generator deciding what the vendor is going to sell for you in the time frame you expecting to get the points to buy what you want, u just get them, right click the vendor and voilá, you T6 weapon with 10 arenas a week for 3~4 weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by highwind
    Just stop crying about "PvP Counterstrike-Kiddies"... most of u "Adult PvE-Gamers" actually behave more like "kiddies" then the people u try to insult !
    If u are happy with paying 13€/month for posing with ur stuff online u got from killing always equally behaving AIs with premade tactics u copy from other guys via Inet then just be it... but dont insult people who are not that simple minded and play an online game in search of a challenge which they cant find vs AIs.
    Actually you're wrong again, most of 'Pseudo-Adult and Teenagers PvE-Gamers' behave like children, very true on that, nevertheless, it's understandable they're frustration, watching blizzard focusing in the PvP aspect of the game alone just because it gives them less work, PvP is like a car, you just need to get the engine started, after that runs itself alone with some maintenance over the years, and a few tire and oil changes along the way. PvE requires alot more work on, design, models, npc AI, etc etc. PvE only continues to exist mildly (i say mildly because most of the new content is months apart, BT is getting close to 1 year launch) and recycled content, not talking about reused models, that doesn't even bother me anymore, talking about ALWAYS THE SAME FREAKING 5 MAN DUNGEONS WHICH I CAN'T EVEN SEE ANYMORE after running that a GAZILLION times, providing only badge rewards as an incentive to return to the same ol' freaking 5 man dungeon grinding.....

    About your comment regarding:
    ...killing always equally behaving AIs with premade tactics u copy from other guys via Inet then just be it... but dont insult people who are not that simple minded and play an online game in search of a challenge which they cant find vs AIs.
    You don't play world of warcraft enough time to be minimally credible about that affirmation, IF you ever played 40 man raiding pre-tbc or 25 man raids while progressing (let me emphasize, while progressing, because taking walks in the park even a 6 year old plays PvE) you would never make such a statement, even though the AI can be predictable, alot of the fight is not, besides, several times raid changes, class changes, player changes, thus requiring ppl to adapt many times during fight also due to unforseen crap that happens, with the exception of a guild consistently farming a specific boss (and even there not always true) you can say it's the same boring crap.
    PvP is not different, the strategies to defeat the opposing team are always the same, and like PvE with a twist here and there, what changes the strategies are class changes, people adapt, in the end after sorting out the best way of doing it, the result will be the same strategy. Granted, strategies vary depending on each tem setup and the setup of the opposing team, it's just a matter of practice, like PvE.
    I can give you a pretty blatant example of how PvE can be the same 'AI wise' as PvP, you're facing a boss that you know that has ability X, you know the cooldown of the ability but you don't know when he's going to use it, the same happens in PvP, you know class Y has ability Z and you know what's the cooldown, but then, you also don't know when he's going to use it.

    I could continue to provide you alot more examples, but then my wall of text would crit alot more than u're HP pool can handle.

    Quote Originally Posted by highwind
    Totally signed.
    But as usually, the PvE-Epix-Posers dont really get along with that.

    I myself dont even regret one single game i did back in S2 although now everyone can get the same stuff rather "for free" and u know why ? Cause i liked what i did - it was fun and not some "hard work for my posing gear" which lost it wealth now.
    There are alot of 'epix-posers' as u call them, to a certain extent i agree with them, on the other hand i don't, i'm atm in a guild on Illidan in BT (not down yet working on it), i have 6 other alts (all 70, no i have a life, i just play this game since day 1) it's good to have certain changes so that i can have a fresh breeze in the game by playing my other alts, attunement lifts, badge rewards etc, but the patience is running out, the dungeon difficulty has decreased to the level of 6 year old players, and the content is the same all over and over and over and over again.

    I just reminded about 1 post in warcraft forums with the title "PvP is ruining PvE" or something like that, and, kalgan posted something like 'Like if you weren't able to do pve with those changes' that just made me go nuts (unfortunately i can't post in US forums), what that sentence shows is: "Who cares about PvE, we just don't care about how challenge we put in the game for you, we just want to get this PvP whiners for class balancing shut up to get the pvp engine started and continue the game with just me, 1 modeler, 1 developer working firing the rest"

    Sunwell has been on the bench for almost 1 year, what it has ? 1 25 man raid dungeon with 6 bosses, 1 5 man dungeon with 4 bosses, recycled content, read it badge items, pattern recycling by reputation ABSURDLY EXPENSIVE i may add, token vendors for PvP gear. So we can safely say, blizzard took almost 1 year to conceive 1 raid, 1 5 man dungeon and they're respective gear drops, 1 new area, a few bunch of new daily quests to keep ppl's mind away of the lack of work they did during a year.

    Another very important point alot of ppl are missing about the constant topic regarding how much of PvP player base there is, is that it's completely wrong, i can almost bet that it's not even close to 50% of current wow player base, i'm talking about PvP ONLY players, players that really don't want PvE at all, and just want to do arenas only, the 'competitive side' or even the players that really get pissed on changes made to suit PvP screwing PvE, those guys are a really low ammount of players, you guys forget that ALOT of PvE players PvP for the reason i stated above in the weapon comparison, it's alot more quicker to get a S3 weapon than a legendary from illidan, and it's CERTAIN they know they are getting it, and even more, alot of them are players trying to gear up to enter in guilds progressing what they want to see, i am pretty sure if blizzard made the PvP equivalent weapons more accessible in PvE they wouldn't play PvP so much as they do now or even at all.

    The only way to know for sure what's the PvP player base in world of warcraft, would be to make a poll IN THE GAME, making the right questions, not ambiguous ones like 'do you play pvp, do you play pve, do you play both', proper questions to really asses the ammount of players that take PvP as a minigame inside world of warcraft, and those that world of warcraft is pvp only.

    Best regards,

  12. #32

    Re: Dragonblight Preview, blue posts

    Quote Originally Posted by mumbles
    Hello,

    I have mmo-champion and worldofraids.com as the two site i visit in a daily basis, actually several times a day, but i usually don't post anything, for example, here it's my first post, and i actually registered to reply on this post specifically.
    And I will say the same, just about your post

    Quote Originally Posted by mumbles
    You made your first mistake on the quote above, which was, comparing PvE and PvP weapons on stats alone, you forgot about comparing the ratio of effort vs reward on each weapon, so i'm going to do it for you.

    Let's assume were speaking of above average PvEr's (raiding BT/Hyjal) since it's the only way of getting those PvE weapons, vs above average PvPer's (let's assume a 2000 arena rating):
    2000 rating being above average ? that's the understatement of the century tbh. average is 1500, that is getting lowered effectively by rating selling. So, the above average pvp'er doesn't actually even have access to weapons. thank you
    The average guild may not have cleared bt&mh, but they certainly are in them
    If above average is raiding mh&bt, then above average in pvp is 1600.

    Quote Originally Posted by mumbles
    Best PvE 2 Hand:
    http://www.wowhead.com/?item=30902 (138 DPS)
    Drops from Archimonde, last boss in Mount Hyjal with an average 16% drop chance.

    Best PvP 2 Hand:
    http://www.wowhead.com/?item=33688 (134.2 DPS)
    Costs 3750 arena points:
    5 weeks in a 2vs2
    4 weeks in a 3vs3
    3.5 weeks in a 5vs5 (4 weeks if the player has 0 arena points when started to 'work' for it)

    Best PvE "Mainhand" non-Dagger Wep:
    http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32837 (109.3 DPS plus much higher basedmg cause of slower Speed)
    Drops from Illidan, last BT Boss with an average 6% drop rate

    Best PvP "Mainhand" non-Dagger Wep:
    http://www.wowhead.com/?item=33762 (103.1 DPS)
    Costs 2625 Arena points:
    3 weeks in 2vs2
    3 weeks in 3vs3
    2 weeks in 5vs5 (3 if the player has 0 arena points etc etc)

    Best PvE "Mainhand" Dagger Wep:
    http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32471 (106.1 DPS plus much higher basedmg cause of slower Speed)
    Drops from Illidan last boss in BT, with an average drop rate of 17%

    Best PvP "Mainhand" Dagger Wep:
    http://www.wowhead.com/?item=33754 (103.1 DPS)
    Costs 2625 Arena points:
    3 weeks in 2vs2
    3 weeks in 3vs3
    2 weeks in 5vs5 (3 if the player has 0 arena points etc etc)

    Best PvE Ranged:
    http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32336 / http://www.wowhead.com/?item=30906 (95.8 DPS)
    Drop from Illidan last boss in BT with an average drop rate of 23%
    Drop from Archimonde last boss in Hyjal with an average drop rate of 13%

    Best PvP Ranged:
    http://www.wowhead.com/?item=34529 (93.2 DPS)
    Costs 3750 arena points:
    5 weeks in a 2vs2
    4 weeks in a 3vs3
    3.5 weeks in a 5vs5 (4 weeks if the player has 0 arena points when started to 'work' for it)

    So, for starters, on PvE you get a random number generator messing you earnings, as an example, you knew there are guilds farming illidan for several months and never saw 1 shield drop ? and not even 1 legendary ? and then IF and IF the weapon drops you might not win it, as other people want it and your 'competing' with them to get the weapon.
    Try calculating the weeks it takes to get those weapons with 1600 rating in 2vs2, yep that's true, you never will

    Quote Originally Posted by mumbles
    Really, the dps difference in PvP vs PvE weapons is irrelevant, the stats are more important for that insignificant dps difference, so basically you just shot u're own foot by comparing that as it clearly shows that it's better to go for PvP weapons instead of PvE, mainly for 2 reasons:

    a) effort/reward ratio is laughable, AND you know when it's comming, you know that it's in 2 or 3 weeks you are getting that weapon FOR SURE
    b) you don't have a random number generator deciding what the vendor is going to sell for you in the time frame you expecting to get the points to buy what you want, u just get them, right click the vendor and voilá, you T6 weapon with 10 arenas a week for 3~4 weeks
    a) Thing is though, as a pvp'er, if you don't go above 1850 rating, you won't see these shiny new weapons when not inspecting, and that no matter how many months you pvp, and to compete, this weapon will actually help a great deal for some classes. opposed to pve your raid will get loads of epix each week. It might be that person x don't get y item for z weeks. But the raid definately gets "upgraded" a lot each week. and remember, this game is NOT about preference, it's about epix and that is the only reason why you would do pve appearently. Which I can follow since it can't be fun avoiding the same immensely random fire from archi every week.
    b) You are such a tool, lol. This comment makes me wonder if you are a troll.

    Quote Originally Posted by mumbles
    Actually you're wrong again, most of 'Pseudo-Adult and Teenagers PvE-Gamers' behave like children, very true on that, nevertheless, it's understandable they're frustration, watching blizzard focusing in the PvP aspect of the game alone just because it gives them less work, PvP is like a car, you just need to get the engine started, after that runs itself alone with some maintenance over the years, and a few tire and oil changes along the way. PvE requires alot more work on, design, models, npc AI, etc etc. PvE only continues to exist mildly (i say mildly because most of the new content is months apart, BT is getting close to 1 year launch) and recycled content, not talking about reused models, that doesn't even bother me anymore, talking about ALWAYS THE SAME FREAKING 5 MAN DUNGEONS WHICH I CAN'T EVEN SEE ANYMORE after running that a GAZILLION times, providing only badge rewards as an incentive to return to the same ol' freaking 5 man dungeon grinding.....
    If you don't like to do 5mans. just don't fucking do it. T.T
    Quote Originally Posted by mumbles
    About your comment regarding:
    You don't play world of warcraft enough time to be minimally credible about that affirmation, IF you ever played 40 man raiding pre-tbc or 25 man raids while progressing (let me emphasize, while progressing, because taking walks in the park even a 6 year old plays PvE) you would never make such a statement, even though the AI can be predictable, alot of the fight is not, besides, several times raid changes, class changes, player changes, thus requiring ppl to adapt many times during fight also due to unforseen crap that happens, with the exception of a guild consistently farming a specific boss (and even there not always true) you can say it's the same boring crap.
    PvP is not different, the strategies to defeat the opposing team are always the same, and like PvE with a twist here and there, what changes the strategies are class changes, people adapt, in the end after sorting out the best way of doing it, the result will be the same strategy. Granted, strategies vary depending on each tem setup and the setup of the opposing team, it's just a matter of practice, like PvE.
    I can give you a pretty blatant example of how PvE can be the same 'AI wise' as PvP, you're facing a boss that you know that has ability X, you know the cooldown of the ability but you don't know when he's going to use it, the same happens in PvP, you know class Y has ability Z and you know what's the cooldown, but then, you also don't know when he's going to use it.

    I could continue to provide you alot more examples, but then my wall of text would crit alot more than u're HP pool can handle.
    well, take top 100 pve guild, why aren't they all killing illidan. oh wait, they are.
    now take top 100 arena teams. why aren't they all number 1 ? competing not equal farming.
    If you don't know when a boss is going to do x ability, try one of the boss spoiler mods.

    Quote Originally Posted by mumbles
    There are alot of 'epix-posers' as u call them, to a certain extent i agree with them, on the other hand i don't, i'm atm in a guild on Illidan in BT (not down yet working on it), i have 6 other alts (all 70, no i have a life, i just play this game since day 1) it's good to have certain changes so that i can have a fresh breeze in the game by playing my other alts, attunement lifts, badge rewards etc, but the patience is running out, the dungeon difficulty has decreased to the level of 6 year old players, and the content is the same all over and over and over and over again.
    You agree with them to a certain extent, because you are one of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by mumbles
    I just reminded about 1 post in warcraft forums with the title "PvP is ruining PvE" or something like that, and, kalgan posted something like 'Like if you weren't able to do pve with those changes' that just made me go nuts (unfortunately i can't post in US forums), what that sentence shows is: "Who cares about PvE, we just don't care about how challenge we put in the game for you, we just want to get this PvP whiners for class balancing shut up to get the pvp engine started and continue the game with just me, 1 modeler, 1 developer working firing the rest"
    no, what it shows is "unless we make warriors and paladins unable to wear shield, druids without bear form, and healers without healing spells, you will still be able to kill the script we hand made for your enjoyment you whining retard"

    Quote Originally Posted by mumbles
    Sunwell has been on the bench for almost 1 year, what it has ? 1 25 man raid dungeon with 6 bosses, 1 5 man dungeon with 4 bosses, recycled content, read it badge items, pattern recycling by reputation ABSURDLY EXPENSIVE i may add, token vendors for PvP gear. So we can safely say, blizzard took almost 1 year to conceive 1 raid, 1 5 man dungeon and they're respective gear drops, 1 new area, a few bunch of new daily quests to keep ppl's mind away of the lack of work they did during a year.
    stop paying for the game then. simple.

    Quote Originally Posted by mumbles
    Another very important point alot of ppl are missing about the constant topic regarding how much of PvP player base there is, is that it's completely wrong, i can almost bet that it's not even close to 50% of current wow player base, i'm talking about PvP ONLY players, players that really don't want PvE at all, and just want to do arenas only, the 'competitive side' or even the players that really get pissed on changes made to suit PvP screwing PvE, those guys are a really low ammount of players, you guys forget that ALOT of PvE players PvP for the reason i stated above in the weapon comparison, it's alot more quicker to get a S3 weapon than a legendary from illidan, and it's CERTAIN they know they are getting it, and even more, alot of them are players trying to gear up to enter in guilds progressing what they want to see, i am pretty sure if blizzard made the PvP equivalent weapons more accessible in PvE they wouldn't play PvP so much as they do now or even at all.

    The only way to know for sure what's the PvP player base in world of warcraft, would be to make a poll IN THE GAME, making the right questions, not ambiguous ones like 'do you play pvp, do you play pve, do you play both', proper questions to really asses the ammount of players that take PvP as a minigame inside world of warcraft, and those that world of warcraft is pvp only.

    Best regards,
    Contradictions are bad, no ?
    "He who takes offense when no offense is intended is a fool, and he who takes offense when offense is intended is a greater fool." — Brigham Young

  13. #33

    Re: Dragonblight Preview, blue posts

    Before i continue, let me state that 99% of u're text has one sole purpose, induce flaming instead of properly argumenting about my post, so, since my maturity level is clearly above yours i'll just ignore your ' flame inducing ' small lines of text out of it commenting only what i think it's important.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mith

    2000 rating being above average ? that's the understatement of the century tbh. average is 1500, that is getting lowered effectively by rating selling. So, the above average pvp'er doesn't actually even have access to weapons. thank you
    The average guild may not have cleared bt&mh, but they certainly are in them
    If above average is raiding mh&bt, then above average in pvp is 1600.

    Try calculating the weeks it takes to get those weapons with 1600 rating in 2vs2, yep that's true, you never will
    You're statistics aren't correct, when you want to compare 2 universes, you need to compare them proportionally, meaning, you need to get the whole universe of raiding guilds (and active) and find how many are in BT/Hyjal vs the whole universe of existing (and active) arena teams and calculate the average arena rating.

    Granted, i haven't made those calculations nor i will, as i really don't care about it, my point was and still is reward vs effort.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mith
    a) Thing is though, as a pvp'er, if you don't go above 1850 rating, you won't see these shiny new weapons when not inspecting, and that no matter how many months you pvp, and to compete, this weapon will actually help a great deal for some classes. opposed to pve your raid will get loads of epix each week. It might be that person x don't get y item for z weeks. But the raid definately gets "upgraded" a lot each week. and remember, this game is NOT about preference, it's about epix and that is the only reason why you would do pve appearently. Which I can follow since it can't be fun avoiding the same immensely random fire from archi every week.
    My friend, if you're saying it's hard to get 1850 to buy a weapon, you must really live in a completely different world, as in my server there are plently of arena farmers selling arena points and rating boosts to anyone who wants.

    About the raid getting upgrades, yes it does, once again, like the other fella which i quoted on my post before you shot urself in the foot by bringing that fact into the discussion, how long does it take to gear up 25 people (which is NEVER 25, it's always more as any decent guild has more than 25 to cope with rotations and replacements) vs 2, 3, 5 ppl in arenas ?

    This game is about challenge, it's the same reason as people played super mario bros or any other game intended to single player at home in u're comfortable chair/couch, what mmorpgs bring into the mix is the cooperative play with alot more players, and the competitive side of content beating between groups of players. Now i completely agree with you that there are alot of epeen swingers around, that for them it's all about the looks and how you wave a legend in a major capital, but, for me it isn't and for a big majority it isn't, unfortunately, most of the forum trolls are the epeen swingers, and although they're 'game' isn't the same as my, they often tell some truths although in the wrong way, that's why pve'rs get the fame they have.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mith
    If you don't know when a boss is going to do x ability, try one of the boss spoiler mods.
    You never raided, a spolier mod is never going to accurately tell you when archimonde is going to fear for example, just tells you the cooldown, as several mods tell you the cooldown of your opponent frost nova, or any other spell.

    Best regards,

  14. #34

    Re: Dragonblight Preview, blue posts

    Quote Originally Posted by mumbles
    Before i continue, let me state that 99% of u're text has one sole purpose, induce flaming instead of properly argumenting about my post, so, since my maturity level is clearly above yours i'll just ignore your ' flame inducing ' small lines of text out of it commenting only what i think it's important.
    Before I continue, let me state that 99% of your text has one sole purpose. Induce whine instead of looking at the broad picture. So, since your view on raiding vs. pvp is blatantly biased towards pve, I should have ignored your whining bullshit ie. 99% of your post. and just skipped it completely.
    Quote Originally Posted by mumbles
    You're statistics aren't correct, when you want to compare 2 universes, you need to compare them proportionally, meaning, you need to get the whole universe of raiding guilds (and active) and find how many are in BT/Hyjal vs the whole universe of existing (and active) arena teams and calculate the average arena rating.

    Granted, i haven't made those calculations nor i will, as i really don't care about it, my point was and still is reward vs effort.
    Which is why "my friend" that I asked you "contradictions is bad, no?". You post your statistics like they where truth, why should I not then. it takes a very large chunk of time, but your reward should be the fun of beating a script someone else set up. Stop assuming you know shit about me just because I don't agree with you. Archimonde is not hard, unless your head is where it shouldn't be.

    Quote Originally Posted by mumbles
    My friend, if you're saying it's hard to get 1850 to buy a weapon, you must really live in a completely different world, as in my server there are plently of arena farmers selling arena points and rating boosts to anyone who wants.
    We do live in different worlds. because in my world. competing in arena does not equal buying weapons from people who are better than yourself. And whining about other people in getting the same items i do is not a necessity for me to have fun in sunwell.

    Quote Originally Posted by mumbles
    About the raid getting upgrades, yes it does, once again, like the other fella which i quoted on my post before you shot urself in the foot by bringing that fact into the discussion, how long does it take to gear up 25 people (which is NEVER 25, it's always more as any decent guild has more than 25 to cope with rotations and replacements) vs 2, 3, 5 ppl in arenas ?

    This game is about challenge, it's the same reason as people played super mario bros or any other game intended to single player at home in u're comfortable chair/couch, what mmorpgs bring into the mix is the cooperative play with alot more players, and the competitive side of content beating between groups of players. Now i completely agree with you that there are alot of epeen swingers around, that for them it's all about the looks and how you wave a legend in a major capital, but, for me it isn't and for a big majority it isn't, unfortunately, most of the forum trolls are the epeen swingers, and although they're 'game' isn't the same as my, they often tell some truths although in the wrong way, that's why pve'rs get the fame they have.

    You never raided, a spolier mod is never going to accurately tell you when archimonde is going to fear for example, just tells you the cooldown, as several mods tell you the cooldown of your opponent frost nova, or any other spell.

    Best regards,
    fuck this shit, I'm getting trolled, should have realized that a long time ago T.T If challenge is the issue, why the fuck do you whine about people getting loot ? why the fuck do you care what people think, why do you care when ... ? everything you have posted so far strongly indicates that it is in fact the fucking loot you are whining about.
    To answer the first thing. the average player will never get shoulder&weapon unless they buy it from point sellers. assuming you have do 5man it is still not more than 400ish points each week, which is a fucking long time to get fully arena geared. but, they need the fucking edge of pvp gear to compete "properly". for your pve group, you have had what, 8months to farm those instances to prepare for sunwell. if we wait one day we are one day behind those we want to compete with, and they change seasons faster than they implement instances. anyway, I've spent plenty of time with your narrow minded trolling. bye
    also, I don't think you realise this, but pvp is not about defeating encounters that never change and gear up. it's about competing versus other people, nothing else. if there was live server like the tournament server I'd easily pay double the amount of irl money for this game. Apart from all the resist/"miss"&dmg range mechanisms it's still the best of it's kind imo.
    "He who takes offense when no offense is intended is a fool, and he who takes offense when offense is intended is a greater fool." — Brigham Young

  15. #35

    Re: Dragonblight Preview, blue posts

    You're missing a primary point. Why does it matter if a PvP player gets a nice weapon? Does that somehow affect your guild's ability to sucessfully participate in scripted encounters and get random drops?

    No.

    In the same vein, your amazing sunwell drops will have little to no impact on my ability to melt you in arenas. So why not just concern yourself with learning the polka dance that is raiding, and let PVP oriented players worry about their own gear.

    Not only that, but you have no business comparing arenas to raiding unless you've succesfully done both. As someone who has, I can tell you that the individual effort involved in getting a PVP weapon is much higher than that involved in being raider #17 in a BT guild. With the current state of arenas, it is harder to get 1850 than it is to kill bosses in BT. If I wanted to get BT loot, all it would take would be a quick app to any one of the BT guilds on my server and within a week I'd be bidding on loot. The only requirement is half a brain and the necessary time commitment.

    All of this is besides the point though. Who cares about loot these days anyway? Everyone has epics, everyone has a playstyle they can enjoy, and the expansion is coming soon. You say blizzard has been doing nothing for the past year? Idiot. The fact that they have the resources to release something like Sunwell WHILE they are concurrently working on WotLK shows their dedication to the player base.
    Serious Business

  16. #36

    Re: Dragonblight Preview, blue posts

    Think he/she still wants to be the player who never PvPs and enters AV w/ Tier full tier 2.5 and Ashkandi w/ everyone running away. "OMG Ashkandi" Or the team of I play from 8-5 you play from 5-8 Pvp'rs that literally had there toon living in AV to get HWL Axe(lvl60) stand in front of Org w/ everyone inspecting and challenging to duel.

    Enough of my mindless raving though. It is true Pve is predictable.... PERIOD "@ such and such% Boss XYZ does this then this then this. The same always. PvP yes you have to Pallies in same Ret gear same weap yet one isnt even ret spec'd "and why does it seem like he hits my 2x" I absolutely love pvp because although the PVE aspect of it is predictable IE, Van, Drak etc etc, the player aspec rules......yes you may met Rogues.."oh look its that same rogue let me kill him/her again" outta the blue, some warlock charges you "WTF warlocks can't Charge" while fear locking you into a dotty oblivion. Pve does have some challenges which are dealt w/ by simply raiding w/ the same people "as long as priest x does 123, and Mage z does 321" you win always. I bet if someone took the time you could fukkin slider these endgame raids.

    Anyway pvp would be so much more sick if blizzard maid more level equal items like uthers resolve or goblin rocker helm, Hand of..whatever the hell it is it drops in BRD and gives extra swing and/or made it so hybrid specs of any class actually possed a threat to traditionally specd pvp'rs.

    Anyway feel free to flame.

  17. #37

    Re: Dragonblight Preview, blue posts

    First i think everyone haven't properly understood what i wrote, be it bad english (as it's not my native language) or the lack of a big disclaimer on the top of my post so that ppl would understand it better, if it's the first, i apologize, if it's the second i'll make the disclaimer now:

    I'm not against pvp, guess what i pvp also and i don't have the need to buy ratings or boosts, but the way pvp is interfering with pve is what's causing alot of grief on both factions of the game (call them pve'ers and pvp'ers).

    If there was equipment that could be used solely in arenas reward through arenas, and pve gear that could be used in pve, alot of this 'fights' between those factions would end, but, since this means that people wouldn't be able to use any of the gear in world pvp, a thing that almost doesn't exist since the release of battlegrounds, that is never going to happen.

    I clearly stated in my first post that reward vs effort in getting pvp gear is easier than in pve on (let me emphasize better so people read) PROGRESSING GUILDS, because walks in the park any 6 year old can do BT/Hyjal read walks in the park as: apply to a guild farming BT and start bidding after joining the raid, specially since most of the raid already have everything they want, the PvE'rs that play arenas are the ones mostly progressing and want to get a couple of weapons faster since they're gonna take a long while to see illidan or even Kael and Vashj.

    PvE is as much predictable as PvP, Fearlys, you came with the spec example, Cowtip or TinyTip, is a nice mod which allows you to customize the tooltips of the game, they both also have a nice feature of telling you the player spec on hover in 0.5ms.

    Again the mix of competitive PvE and competitive PvP is the issue, having a Tournament Realm will ease things a bit i think, and to be honest, i think they are preparing to test something like moving arenas into independent servers without PvE (which although i wouldn't mind that, might generate some crying).

    If challenge is the issue, why the fuck do you whine about people getting loot ? why the fuck do you care what people think, why do you care when ... ? everything you have posted so far strongly indicates that it is in fact the fucking loot you are whining about.
    That's only what you want to see, and you want to be trolled, i'll give you a taste of it, the ammount of swearing in a post is inversely proportional to the ammount of grey mater. To the point now, i'd like anyone to quote anything i said that showed i was against any player get any loot, never did, in fact, i only extrapolated the first weapon comparison in another way and brought up the reward vs effort ratio, hell i have alts PvP geared, saved me alot of hard grinding in 5 man instances (badges) and i did have fun doing so, the big problem is when you have ppl feeling forced to farm arenas to get weapons since they are easier to get than they're PvE counterpart specially when a) they're guild is still progressing and can't see the PvE counterpart boss for a long time, b) when they need a strong apply to a guild they want to walk in the park with, and this, in my humble opinion (noticed the disclaimer!!) is what's wrong.

    And to finish, if anyone wants to refute anything i say, you're more than welcome, but don't refute only 1 thing that popped into your head as a brilliant argumentation, because in a discussion when several points are presented, just because someone refuted 1, doesn't mean that reason is on his side.

    Best regards,

  18. #38

    Re: Dragonblight Preview, blue posts

    Quote Originally Posted by Mith
    Archimonde is not hard, unless your head is where it shouldn't be.
    I have both 1850+ rating and loot from Archimonde, and it was waaaay easier to get rating.
    Do not forget that when you reach rating, you just need points (which you can get from other 2 brackets)for your weapon.When you kill Archimonde, which is very very random fight, loot needs to drop and you need to win it, I doubt at that point you will be only one in guild that wants t6 helm.
    "There's a difference between us. You think the people of this country exist to provide you with position. I think your position exists to provide those people with freedom. And I go to make sure that they have it."
    - William Wallace

  19. #39

    Re: Dragonblight Preview, blue posts

    question...what do they mean about the changes to inspect? does that mean we can inspect horde in shattrath?

    also this pvp vs pve is annoying people should just really keep thier opinions to themselves :P
    My Personal/Guild YouTube Channel: Featuring Rise of Professional Gaming Documentary!
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  20. #40

    Re: Dragonblight Preview, blue posts

    You can learn everything that you need to about what's wrong with WoW by going here:

    www.ihatewarcraft.com

    that is all.

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