Raiding as Shadowstep

[gnomeirl]

'Morning! I'm at work so I don't dare post on the WoW forums, but I thought I could ask your opinions here on MMOC.

I've decided to raid again (I go through bouts of raid burnout and raid appeal every 3-6 months) and I want to know if any of you have heard of the effectiveness of raiding as Shadowstep. (I know there's one rogue from some famous guild that was recently ridiculed on the WoW rogue forums for raiding as Shadowstep, but later posts in that thread showed that the guy was top dps in raids, doing 2000+ dps.)

I realize -- I seriously do -- that the lack of "Precision" and DW spec hurts DPS. I've raided MC, BWL, AQ40, Naxx, SSC, TK, and, of course, Kara (about two hundred times). And I've always been either #1 or #2 in raid DPS as Combat swords (in TBC).

But isn't there something to say about the 15% more agility and, on top of that, a 10% increase in attack power that makes up for the lack of 5% hit (which can be compensated for through +hit gems) and 25% more damage from the offhand? Special attacks don't suffer from the dual wield penalty to hit, so stacking agility and attack power (playing to the strengths of the spec) MAY make up for the lack of dual wield, possibly surpass (if geared well) the Combat spec for raid DPS.

Any thoughts? Any personal experiences to relate, whether YOU are the raiding Shadowstep rogue or a teammate of one?

[Skoorb]

Shadowstep will never out dps a 20/41/0 combat swords build w/similar gear.

[Cronik]

Basicly in a nutshell, Your gimping yourself and your raid by not being combat swords. You really cant afford to always be behind the boss ( which is still like 90% of the time. )

Anyways, Its just not the best idea if you seriously plan to raid. People in my guild ( we kill illidan ) have tried it, tested it and theorycrafted on it ( we have some top notch rogues ) and it just didn't work as well as swords or even mace spec.

[Windywoo]

Basicly in a nutshell, Your gimping yourself and your raid by not being combat swords. You really cant afford to always be behind the boss ( which is still like 90% of the time. )

Anyways, Its just not the best idea if you seriously plan to raid. People in my guild ( we kill illidan ) have tried it, tested it and theorycrafted on it ( we have some top notch rogues ) and it just didn't work as well as swords or even mace spec.

Why would he be behind the boss? Is it due to specials possibly being dodged? Isn't that a small factor?

I haven't done exact theorycrafting but since Shadowstep includes talents which improve the damage on rupture and increase agility and attack power it does have very good potential in raids. When I tried it I had some problems keeping up slice and dice with rupture though, since without combat potency you have slightly fewer combo points. All our rogues specced Shadowstep on Archimonde and didn't seem to have much trouble topping DPS on that fight (slightly melee friendly fight though).

[infernalx]

Why would he be behind the boss? Is it due to specials possibly being dodged? Isn't that a small factor?

I haven't done exact theorycrafting but since Shadowstep includes talents which improve the damage on rupture and increase agility and attack power it does have very good potential in raids. When I tried it I had some problems keeping up slice and dice with rupture though, since without combat potency you have slightly fewer combo points. All our rogues specced Shadowstep on Archimonde and didn't seem to have much trouble topping DPS on that fight (slightly melee friendly fight though).

A good rogue who knows what he/she is doing HAS to be behind or the sides of the boss at all times when DPSing to avoid parries/blocks. Mobs can still dodge even if you attack them from behind.

Even if they did top the meter, they would do more DPS if they were the standard spec. Shadowstep could do decently but why gimp yourself a bit when you can always go with the best option.

[Windywoo]

A good rogue who knows what he/she is doing HAS to be behind or the sides of the boss at all times when DPSing to avoid parries/blocks. Mobs can still dodge even if you attack them from behind.

Even if they did top the meter, they would do more DPS if they were the standard spec. Shadowstep could do decently but why gimp yourself a bit when you can always go with the best option.

Yes but why did someone say that this was a failing of shadowstep? All builds of rogue try to stay behind the boss/mob, not just shadowstep, and in combat tree the end talent prevents dodges of specials. This was what I was asking about. Is the dodging of specials really such a big problem on bossfights that to go without it would gimp you?

DPS on Archi is not as big a factor as surviving, hence lolstep builds with cheat death. Also, when they had to run from fire or got Airburst Shadowstep helped them get back into the fight quick. And on other fights like Bloodboil Cheat Death along with prep for 2*evasion works well.

[Depress]

why gimp yourself a bit when you can always go with the best option.

I think he wants to save gold (respeccing in and out of pvp spec for arena and pve).

[Cronik]

Why would he be behind the boss? Is it due to specials possibly being dodged? Isn't that a small factor?

I haven't done exact theorycrafting but since Shadowstep includes talents which improve the damage on rupture and increase agility and attack power it does have very good potential in raids. When I tried it I had some problems keeping up slice and dice with rupture though, since without combat potency you have slightly fewer combo points. All our rogues specced Shadowstep on Archimonde and didn't seem to have much trouble topping DPS on that fight (slightly melee friendly fight though).

lol archimonde IS a melee fight.

anyways, being behind a boss techniclly makes him impossiable to parry your attacks and supposed to not let him dodge your attacks. Basicly increasing your dps (including no cleaves.)

[Windywoo]

lol archimonde IS a melee fight.

anyways, being behind a boss techniclly makes him impossiable to parry your attacks and supposed to not let him dodge your attacks. Basicly increasing your dps (including no cleaves.)

Yes and what has that to do with shadowstep?

[Flawedhero]

anyways, being behind a boss techniclly makes him impossiable to parry your attacks and supposed to not let him dodge your attacks. Basicly increasing your dps (including no cleaves.)

Mobs/bosses can dodge from behind, always have been able to as far as I can recall.