Thread: DPS questions

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  1. #21

    Re: DPS questions

    1. What class is most needed for end game DPS? There is no "most needed" class for dps for high end raiding

    2. Are the PvP weapons worth getting, in terms of time, or should I just wait for drops? 1850 S3 Swords for rogues are about the best your gonna get until Glaives/SWP drops

    3. For a rogue what stat should I focus on the most? As i play a rogue myself if your swords Hit > ap > crit
    Daggers Hit > crit > ap
    Maces Hit > crit > ap (varied between the crit and ap, aim for more crit if poss but dont nurf ur AP)

  2. #22

    Re: DPS questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Lawurst
    3/3 ruthlessness & 1/5 Lethality > 2/3 ruthlessness & 2/5 Lethality.

    And you're wrong with your statfocus. 30 haste rating is better then 15 hit rating, no matter if you are at 300 or at 100 hit rating. Same goes for ap, armor pen, expertise, agi, crit, whatever. There is NO stat minimum you need before you could consider other stats. (except maybe hitcap for yellow dmg, which you got anyways through precision. :< )
    If item A got way superior stats then Item B it will improve your dps, even if you drop 30 hit.
    I agree to focus purely on one stat until capped is wrong. However when starting in Kara (as poster more or less is according to gear), you will not see items with either expertise, armour reduction or haste often (if at all), thus the focus will go into the simpler Hit > Agi > Crit > Ap. When you start SSC/TK items with these stats start to drop more frequent and you are probably allready way high on Hit at that point and can start switching out as you see fit.

    Ive tried out 3/3 Ruthlessness and 3/5 Lethality btw, and there wasnt any increase in my total damage, but neither any significant reduction. I do however think 3/3 is better for keeping up the hard (energy wise) dagger rotation of 3snd/5rup. Two pieces of T4 makes that rotation easier also, but at one point the bonus from T4 will have to go for better overall damage gear. If you are gonna keep up 3snd/5rup rotation only using backstabs you more or less have to have 3/3 Ruthlessness and 2x T4 items.

    Remember that Adrenaline rush is your friend to get back on track with rotations in long bossfights tho

  3. #23

    Re: DPS questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Zenwen
    I agree to focus purely on one stat until capped is wrong. However when starting in Kara (as poster more or less is according to gear), you will not see items with either expertise, armour reduction or haste often (if at all), thus the focus will go into the simpler Hit > Agi > Crit > Ap. When you start SSC/TK items with these stats start to drop more frequent and you are probably allready way high on Hit at that point and can start switching out as you see fit.
    Well, maybe you missunderstood me orso: 1 hit > 1 Agi > 1 crit > 1ap or whatever may be right (depends on the spec), my point was that you shouldn't say: "Get 300 hit, then crit/arp/ap/haste/whatever".

    And yup, the ruth/lethality thingie was just about the rotation. Adrush sure helps with the rotation but it still got a 5 min cooldown and a duration of 15 seconds, so you may be unlucky with your rotation way more often.

    Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!

    Thanks bbr, great game!

  4. #24

    Re: DPS questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoulmouth
    1) Huters DPS is not as easy as people think. You have to get a good shot rotation down. I have seen hunters in my guild compete for top DPS on the meters, and others (who dont raid anymore) compete with the tanks. Rogues are a very easy class to DPS with as long as you have the right spec.

    2) For a rogue the PvP weapons are actually pretty ideal. They all have a lil hit rating and AP. Yes there are drops you could get but the PvP weapons are better until your in tier 5 maybe 6.

    3) For a rogue you should be focusing more on gear with crit rating and attack power. From there you would look at agility then stamina. I havent played a hunter past lvl 45 so i cant be sure, but i believe they are very dependant upon spec.
    Man first off, Rogues are not as east to play in PvE as some people seem to think. I play a rogue myself, im kara/badge geared in a 9/9 BT 5/5 MH and 1/6 SWP guild (I can not play in SWP since I lack gear..) I'm always top 5 on our dmg meter, often higher rated than our other rogues (one of em got ze glaives). Rogues do depend alot on gear (hit) but to play one properly it requiers alot more skill. As a rogue you have to be aware of any AoE dmg the boss does and also the cleaves.. It's a whole lot about surving as a rogue. A dead rogue is a useless rogue.

    Second, yes PvP swords are worthwhile waiting for (Merciless.) Since there isn't any sword in T4 instances that can compete with the merci swords.. Spiteblade has got some good dmg but it's 2.7 speeded and it's Minidmg is 20 dmg lower than the merci one.. Talon of Azshara would be your next upgrade over the Merci MH.

    Third, WHAT ABOUT HIT MAN?!. Both hunters and rogues need hit, though rogues needs huge amount of it.
    Stat prio for a rogue (sword ofc) is Hit>AtP>Crit. Stamina is ofcourse really needed, if you think your low on it, put a +4agi & +6stam gem in your blue gems.

    ______________________________________________

    The guy that posted this spec: http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/ba...00000000000000
    Are you serious?

    http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=f0gcoLZ0eVboEz0MGotV

    That one would be way better. Since when does a dagger rogue use SS? The only fight I can think of right now where you shouldn't be standing behind the boss is Nightbane and some SSC ones..Not being able to BS and therefore use SS..
    So you waste two talentpoints for like two-three fights? That's ridiculous..

    And as I said above you need to be able to get avoid taking dmg as a rogue. So if you accidentaly get aggro (which you shouldn't, but it can happen on trash) you would need Evasion, and a reduced cd on it could save your life and even a wipe. Ofc you can take the 2nd Talenpoint from Endurance and put it in IMP Sprint which might also save your ass.

    The Insane.

  5. #25

    Re: DPS questions

    Quote Originally Posted by MeRoxz
    The guy that posted this spec: http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/ba...00000000000000
    Are you serious?

    http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=f0gcoLZ0eVboEz0MGotV

    That one would be way better. Since when does a dagger rogue use SS? The only fight I can think of right now where you shouldn't be standing behind the boss is Nightbane and some SSC ones..Not being able to BS and therefore use SS..
    So you waste two talentpoints for like two-three fights? That's ridiculous..

    And as I said above you need to be able to get avoid taking dmg as a rogue. So if you accidentaly get aggro (which you shouldn't, but it can happen on trash) you would need Evasion, and a reduced cd on it could save your life and even a wipe. Ofc you can take the 2nd Talenpoint from Endurance and put it in IMP Sprint which might also save your ass.
    Points in SS is there to easier keep up your rotation (3snd/5rup), or when needed to go infront of bosses in some fights (Nightbane you never ever have to go infront of, he cleaves btw). Saves energy when having to use SS = more energy for Backstab/SnD/Rup = more dps. Points in Endurance and Imp Sprint is by far more useless for raid at any point of view. If you cant avoid taking damage or taking agro you cant play a rogue or your tanks sucks, period. The only thing ridicoulus here is your statements above, and the fact you choose endurance/imp sprint instead over Imp SS.

  6. #26

    Re: DPS questions

    Spiteblade being 2.7 is what makes it interesting (altho s2 is/will be better)
    imo cleaves have been changed from 360° to 180°(cleave, not whirlwind), watching bigwigs and running out/hitting clos at the right time isnt that hard.

    can you explain why you compare weapons mimimumdmg and not topdmg?

  7. #27

    Re: DPS questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Zenwen
    The only thing ridicoulus here is your statements above, and the fact you choose endurance/imp sprint instead over Imp SS.
    The bigger the speed the more DPS you do. I'm not even a rogue and I know that.

  8. #28

    Re: DPS questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Zenwen
    Points in SS is there to easier keep up your rotation (3snd/5rup), or when needed to go infront of bosses in some fights (Nightbane you never ever have to go infront of, he cleaves btw). Saves energy when having to use SS = more energy for Backstab/SnD/Rup = more dps. Points in Endurance and Imp Sprint is by far more useless for raid at any point of view. If you cant avoid taking damage or taking agro you cant play a rogue or your tanks sucks, period. The only thing ridicoulus here is your statements above, and the fact you choose endurance/imp sprint instead over Imp SS.
    why not just shiv instead of wasting points in imp ss for a dagger build?
    with a fast offhand (easy when daggers) it doesnt cost much energy and has a chance on proccing combat potency.

  9. #29

    Re: DPS questions

    Quote Originally Posted by MeRoxz
    Man first off, Rogues are not as east to play in PvE as some people seem to think. I play a rogue myself, im kara/badge geared in a 9/9 BT 5/5 MH and 1/6 SWP guild (I can not play in SWP since I lack gear..) I'm always top 5 on our dmg meter, often higher rated than our other rogues (one of em got ze glaives). Rogues do depend alot on gear (hit) but to play one properly it requiers alot more skill. As a rogue you have to be aware of any AoE dmg the boss does and also the cleaves.. It's a whole lot about surving as a rogue. A dead rogue is a useless rogue.

    Second, yes PvP swords are worthwhile waiting for (Merciless.) Since there isn't any sword in T4 instances that can compete with the merci swords.. Spiteblade has got some good dmg but it's 2.7 speeded and it's Minidmg is 20 dmg lower than the merci one.. Talon of Azshara would be your next upgrade over the Merci MH.

    Third, WHAT ABOUT HIT MAN?!. Both hunters and rogues need hit, though rogues needs huge amount of it.
    Stat prio for a rogue (sword ofc) is Hit>AtP>Crit. Stamina is ofcourse really needed, if you think your low on it, put a +4agi & +6stam gem in your blue gems.

    ______________________________________________

    The guy that posted this spec: http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/ba...00000000000000
    Are you serious?

    http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=f0gcoLZ0eVboEz0MGotV

    That one would be way better. Since when does a dagger rogue use SS? The only fight I can think of right now where you shouldn't be standing behind the boss is Nightbane and some SSC ones..Not being able to BS and therefore use SS..
    So you waste two talentpoints for like two-three fights? That's ridiculous..

    And as I said above you need to be able to get avoid taking dmg as a rogue. So if you accidentaly get aggro (which you shouldn't, but it can happen on trash) you would need Evasion, and a reduced cd on it could save your life and even a wipe. Ofc you can take the 2nd Talenpoint from Endurance and put it in IMP Sprint which might also save your ass.

    Hello mr. skilled rogue who owning dmg over warglaives with badge gear...

    I dont believe you any single word since you probably dont know that you can BACKSTAB from SIDE and not from BEHIND. (I can think of right now where you shouldn't be standing behind the boss is Nightbane and some SSC ones..Not being able to BS and therefore use SS..)

    This is also funny "As a rogue you have to be aware of any AoE dmg the boss does and also the cleaves"

    So basicly you think you can attack bosses from front when they dont cleave and add more attacks to the tank throughout your parry ??? ??? ???

    you would need Evasion, and a reduced cd on it could save your life and even a wipe.

    You should never ever get aggro, if you do vanish, if you dont have vanish, evasion, if you dont have evasion, die. CD on evasion wont save your ass in 99,9999% cases

  10. #30

    Re: DPS questions

    Quote Originally Posted by overneathe
    The bigger the speed the more DPS you do. I'm not even a rogue and I know that.
    So you are suggesting to use sprint on every cooldown to maybe get 0.1 sec faster movement between trash or so, instead of saving 6 energy every time you need to SS? Well, it would add to DPS as you get more uptime, but the whole thought isnt really viable now is it?

    As said above, using Shiv is certainly an option, but myself I use SS the few times im not in position for Backstab, or I need to get enough combos for my rotation. I use SS far more on trash tbh than I use on bosses as there is usually alot of running around. Ive also tried out using Shiv ofc, but now that I got 1.50 offhand, I find SS better. I used to have a 1.30 offhand earlier and it was very nice then.

  11. #31

    Re: DPS questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Zenwen
    So you are suggesting to use sprint on every cooldown to maybe get 0.1 sec faster movement between trash or so, instead of saving 6 energy every time you need to SS? Well, it would add to DPS as you get more uptime, but the whole thought isnt really viable now is it?
    I think he was referring to weaponspeed

    dunno about daggers and shiv/ss. abandoned daggers longtime ago, and shiv sounds more logical to me...but you being the dagger rogue ill take your word for it

  12. #32

    Re: DPS questions

    I hope he did, but he quoted me on the reply tho, regarding Imp Sprint

  13. #33

    Re: DPS questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Zenwen
    So you are suggesting to use sprint on every cooldown to maybe get 0.1 sec faster movement between trash or so, instead of saving 6 energy every time you need to SS? Well, it would add to DPS as you get more uptime, but the whole thought isnt really viable now is it?

    As said above, using Shiv is certainly an option, but myself I use SS the few times im not in position for Backstab, or I need to get enough combos for my rotation. I use SS far more on trash tbh than I use on bosses as there is usually alot of running around. Ive also tried out using Shiv ofc, but now that I got 1.50 offhand, I find SS better. I used to have a 1.30 offhand earlier and it was very nice then.
    Well not like I'm into rogue mechanics and the like ;]
    But I still know a lot of rogues enchanting speed on boots instead of agi. That still doesn't waste talant points ofc... :]

  14. #34

    Re: DPS questions

    wow, leave a thread alone for a day and look what happens, 2 pages of replies.

    I will definitely try out that spec mentioned in page 2, ty for tips. since my hunter is only level 40 atm I will try out some of these rogue tips for a bit then some of the hunter ones. BM for hunter then? it shall be tried

  15. #35

    Re: DPS questions

    Quote Originally Posted by overneathe
    Well not like I'm into rogue mechanics and the like ;]
    But I still know a lot of rogues enchanting speed on boots instead of agi. That still doesn't waste talant points ofc... :]
    alot of people doing something doesnt make it good/viable

  16. #36

    Re: DPS questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Jules
    alot of people doing something doesnt make it good/viable
    No but the rogues I saw are indeed good. :]

  17. #37

    Re: DPS questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Jules
    alot of people doing something doesnt make it good/viable
    I'm pretty sure that I read something about 6 agi&runspeed = (or possibly better if the encounter contains a lot of movement) surefooted > 12 agi on elitistjerks.

    Imp Sprint has it's uses in pve, but nothing reaaaally important, imo. (Arcane explosion during massslow on aran, if CoS is on CD, roots on vashj and.. dunno, can't think of something else right now.)

    Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!

    Thanks bbr, great game!

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