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  1. #1

    Fire or Shadow Destruction

    At the moment i have my warlock specced Fire Destruction PVE like this, http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=IZdxczIbzZVx0tr0tVuV. I only do like Karazhan / Zul'Aman on it, but when i look at Tier6 Destruction Warlocks i see that all is Shadowbolt specced instead, and i kinda wanted to ask why?
    [blizzard]Quote text.[/blizzard]
    [blizzard author=Ghostcrawler]We don't think burst is a problem in PvP right now.[/blizzard]
    [blizzard author=Ghostcrawler link=http://blue.mmo-champion.com/28/17367977149-possible-solution-to-paladin-opness.html]We don't think burst is a problem in PvP right now.[/blizzard]

  2. #2

    Re: Fire or Shadow Destruction

    <3 Destro, this was my spec as well and I too was Fire destro, imo better. But I read up and apparently it doesnt differ that much between spamming shadowbolts or spamming incinerate. Things may have changed in the mean time though, since I quit raiding 6 months ago.

    (one of)The reason(s) shadow might be better is if raiding guilds take frost mages and shadow priests, the shadow vulnerability buffs your shadow damage, fire mages can do that for you too if your fire, but I dont know what is the current status of mages in high end raiding.

    But Ive been fire and shadow, though shadow was only in the earliest stages of TBC raiding, but with my firespec I outdpsed most of the other raiders. Ofc, bosses which require running around alot dont prefer destro > affliction, but I was always top 5

  3. #3

    Re: Fire or Shadow Destruction

    Shadow is better for raid synergy.

    ie Shadow priests do more dmg and get more mana
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  4. #4

    Re: Fire or Shadow Destruction

    Well i kinda top all dmg as destruction fire ofc i can see that Shadowbolt buff every time you crit, but i just doesn't see if its worth it ;b
    [blizzard]Quote text.[/blizzard]
    [blizzard author=Ghostcrawler]We don't think burst is a problem in PvP right now.[/blizzard]
    [blizzard author=Ghostcrawler link=http://blue.mmo-champion.com/28/17367977149-possible-solution-to-paladin-opness.html]We don't think burst is a problem in PvP right now.[/blizzard]

  5. #5

    Re: Fire or Shadow Destruction

    It is worth it, that's why all the serious 25man running locks are shadow destro spec'd.

  6. #6

    Re: Fire or Shadow Destruction

    If they both do Equal DPS I don't see how it's a farm specc because it doesn't do the Imp.Shadowbolt debuff


    Staying fire is fine really.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kish8586
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  7. #7

    Re: Fire or Shadow Destruction

    ok i have been doing a lot of test on dr boom in netherstorm

    and i do like 30 more dps for a 5 minute figth by going fire

    and since in raid you get

    fire 15% from imp scorch and 5 % from misery

    shadow 10% from shadow mastery and 5% from misery

    yes shadow hits harder but the cast time is longer

    with the 2.4 my opinion is that its prety the same except if you got like hyjal bt gear and you got hit cap and a shit load of crit to garanty a nearly 100% uptime on improved shadowbolt


  8. #8

    Re: Fire or Shadow Destruction

    For personal e-peen, fire spec is the way to go due to greater DPS. If you want to help your guild to progress though, shadow is your choice due to ISB and the raid synergy it brings. The only time fire is better in a raid environment is when there are no shadowpriests around.

  9. #9

    Re: Fire or Shadow Destruction

    It's nice to have one of each. Shadow locks have great synergy with shadowpriests; Fire locks have great synergy with fire mages. In endgame raids you'll usually see a few of each of those, especially with how powerful shadowpriest healing is in Sunwell Plateau. Since most raids like to have more than one warlock (multiple healthstones, multiple curses), you can usually be fine with one shadow lock for the ISB and a fire lock or two for the extra damage.

  10. #10

    Re: Fire or Shadow Destruction

    Quote Originally Posted by Mardukil
    For personal e-peen, fire spec is the way to go due to greater DPS. If you want to help your guild to progress though, shadow is your choice due to ISB and the raid synergy it brings. The only time fire is better in a raid environment is when there are no shadowpriests around.
    False.

    You only need enough shadow dest locks to keep ISB up enough based on how many SPs and Aff locks you have in the raid there are.

    There are plenty of calculations that can tell you exactly when your 'extra' locks can be fire. It is all at EJ and you can read it there.

  11. #11

    Re: Fire or Shadow Destruction

    Personally, I prefer Shadow>Fire.

    We're in SWP at the moment on twins, and we run with 4 shadow destro locks, not one fire lock.

    Does that mean it's better? No.

    I just think it means its better.

    I've never hit 11k incinerate crit, but do it often with shadowbolt.

    Plus, you have to keep putting Immolate up as fire destro, which impo, is a ton of lost dps. Immo is only there for incinerate, and that immo could of been an extra 10k SB crit.
    Main - Currently Battling M'uru


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  12. #12

    Re: Fire or Shadow Destruction

    It really just depends on your raid setup, Fire warlocks does the greatest DPS, but dosnt do anthing much for the raid after that, shadow locks has the ISB buff, which makes them help the group that has a shadow priest.

    Anotherthing is taking the mana cost per cast value: since Incinerate cost 65 less mana, it meens more spam (exept keeping immolate up) While destro it more mana inefficent, it gives bigger crits.

    The max amount of shadow damage % increase you can get as destro is 60% and fire is 55% (may have forgoten somthing)
    SB also gets more spelldamage form Shadow and flames due to longer base casting speed, but Inc has faster cast time.

    It all come down to your preferens and if you have a SP or fire mage. But it seems like all the "famous" sunwell locks has changed their Soulfrosts into 40+ all.

    Im Shadow lock myself thought, but im considring changing to fire when i get some more haste. Due to having only 1 SP in guild atm and 3 fire mages.
    (ouch... bad english crits me for 1337 posts)
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  13. #13

    Re: Fire or Shadow Destruction

    theres nothing a shadow lock cant do to buff fire mages that a fire lock can..

    uhh

    theres usually at least 2 locks. one can do coe one can do cos. fire doesnt bring anything, except, maybe, depending on your gear, a little extra personal dps.



    also, http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...don&n=Buzzkill
    http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...ridon&n=Clinkz
    http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...idon&n=Wrathed


    some of the better warlocks...
    Lag - Network related. High server response time, stop downloading.
    Low FPS - Your computer can't keep up with the game - buy a better one

    Dalaran doesn't lag (often) your pc just sucks.

    RIP Paul Gray

  14. #14

    Re: Fire or Shadow Destruction

    Quote Originally Posted by Krypt
    theres nothing a shadow lock cant do to buff fire mages that a fire lock can..

    uhh

    theres usually at least 2 locks. one can do coe one can do cos. fire doesnt bring anything, except, maybe, depending on your gear, a little extra personal dps.
    Nobody's saying the fire locks buff the fire mages, we're saying that the fire mages buff the fire locks, and that combined with other factors makes the fire locks do more damage than the shadow locks. This means that as long as you have the requisite number of shadow locks to keep ISB up, fire locks are a better use of raid spots.

  15. #15

    Re: Fire or Shadow Destruction

    All you wanna be Warlock nerds, just go read the Elitest Jerks threads for Warlocks.

    It is all covered in there, with actual data to back it up instead of the terrible postings of some of you, as typical on MMOC.

  16. #16

    Re: Fire or Shadow Destruction

    Fire Locks bring no buffs, only greater self DPS...the only way a shadow lock bring buffs is if you bring 3+; that way ISB is ALWAYS up. This severly increases the DPS of all the locks as the synergize together. Always depends on your make up too; if all your mages went arcane/frost, you won't have scorch. And depending if you all stay shadow with arcane mages, you don't need CoE for anyone, only CoS.

    Always depends, but no matter what blizz does it seems shadow always out does fire with the right make up. Either way the damn fire should be green imo...

  17. #17

    Re: Fire or Shadow Destruction

    Quote Originally Posted by DressdtoKill
    Always depends, but no matter what blizz does it seems shadow always out does fire with the right make up. Either way the damn fire should be green imo...
    I think you have it backwards... fire outdoes shadow with the proper makeup. Without that proper makeup, shadow outdoes fire. With a proper raid group, you'll have enough shadow locks to keep ISB up and any extra locks can be fire to increase DPS. If you don't have enough shadow locks or have an absurd number of shadowpriests or no fire mages, then shadow can outdo fire due to increased raid utility.

  18. #18

    Re: Fire or Shadow Destruction

    I don't get it, where this stuff came from with fire being greater self dps than shadow. It's *NOT*, I repeat _no it isn't_
    Do the math if you like, or wonder for a second, how the best reason people had to go fire was, that "someone from SK Gaming was fire in the Brutallus video" -yup, and notice how the others were shadow (including their WWS for Brutallus). The fire guy was probably testing something aight.

    And yeah, as mentioned early, just go check Elitist Jerks or Nihilum, there are several pages about this. Shadow > Fire.

  19. #19

    Re: Fire or Shadow Destruction

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicarras
    False.

    You only need enough shadow dest locks to keep ISB up enough based on how many SPs and Aff locks you have in the raid there are.

    There are plenty of calculations that can tell you exactly when your 'extra' locks can be fire. It is all at EJ and you can read it there.
    Well, if you want to go nitpicking one lock can be fire if you run 4 locks and only 1 spriest but even then the raid DPS is equal in both cases (but more ISB uptime = more mana/health regen so shadow is actually still better). Extra locks beyond the 4th can always be fire but raids using 5+ locks are rare enough for me to have overlooked that in my previous post. And yes, I know my math (and I also know the math of many other theorycrafters, some of which happen to be more or less wrong with their calculations).

  20. #20

    Re: Fire or Shadow Destruction

    Fire DOES do more e-peen self DPS: Shorter Casttime, higher critrate (for whatever reason it is around 5% higher than shadow, tested on around 1.000 casts each), conflag boost for immolate.

    I don't understand why everyone is saying that you shouldn't conflag... Why waste a potential 4k instant crit for a 400dmg tick? Mana costs are high, but mana is not an issue anyway.


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