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  1. #1

    Define Welfare epics

    Could anyone who believes the honorgear and similar is "welfare epics" that anyone can obtain, please clarify to me why say this. Why are they welfare epics?

    In what other way should they be obtainable?

    Personally, i think that when s4 releases, the term "welfare epic" is going to disappear, and it's going to be like rep rewards. You can farm for abit, and then buy your reward.

  2. #2

    Re: Define Welfare epics

    Welfare epics are Epics that everyone can get, for doing the least as possible.
    Wellfare epics are not going away with s4, because s2 is now honor sold.

  3. #3

    Re: Define Welfare epics

    Compared to Pre-BC it's pretty easy now to get Epic Items.

    Pre-BC you could count epic items you could get without raiding by two hands.
    Blue was then what is Epic now, when you became level 60, you had to work for your blue gear.
    In Zul'Gurub, most Items that dropped were blue, not that they were bad, most of them were equal to mc epics.
    It was right, MC epics were harder to get, so they were epic while ZG items were mostly blue, the better (and harder to get) were epic.

    Now you can get epic items even in 5man (non-heroic). Epic Items are now as easy obtainable as good blues before BC.
    I think that would describe the term welfare epics better, it isn't about pvp in particular.

    I still remember when I got my azuresong mageblade from maggmadar, or my first t1 even if it's nearly 3 years back.
    It even was a great moment to have all blue equipped.
    But I don't have such memories from bc because they weren't a big deal anymore, you even get good blues from easy solo quests.

    I'm hoping they change it with WotLK, get back to the schema where good items were blue, and epic were epic.
    Not just make everything epic because people want to have all epic gear for free.

    I was "hardcore" raiding for 3 years, from mc to illidan, I've worked for my epics.
    Now I've given my RL more priority and just playing for fun and I don't mind if I can only reach blue equip without raiding if its a accomplishement in itself like it was preBC.

  4. #4

    Re: Define Welfare epics

    I think why they call it welfare is because the items was previously attainable in another fashion that required a lot more effort and time, arena points takes longer to acquire than honor points. Same goes with new badge loot, you don't have to raid tier 5/6 content to get tier5/6 equal gear, they're basically "giving it away" for badges to those that don't have the means or time it requires to raid 25man.

  5. #5

    Re: Define Welfare epics

    Yeh ur right, pre TBC you had to do shitloads of work to get urself 1 of those precious epics. Now its just join a 5 man group, and theres always an epic dropping.

    Still think PVP is even more Welfare epics though.

  6. #6

    Re: Define Welfare epics

    Welfare epics are a good thing, only a tard would spend all their free time raiding 6 hours a day for them.

  7. #7

    Re: Define Welfare epics

    Welfare epics are epics that take no skill/effort to get, just as donations and gifts take no skill or effort to get

  8. #8

    Re: Define Welfare epics

    Quote Originally Posted by Janz
    Welfare epics are a good thing, only a tard would spend all their free time raiding 6 hours a day for them.
    I think that's why people are starting to care less and less about raiding, sunwell loot is of course still gonna be superior to any of the welfare epics they can dish up with, still it seems to diminish the efforts of raiders but it can also help further the progress in MH/BT if a raidguild is lacking good geared players.

    I think one of the reasons they implemented welfare epics is also that they want as many players as possible to experience the endgame content.

  9. #9

    Re: Define Welfare epics

    Quote Originally Posted by Janz
    Welfare epics are a good thing, only a tard would spend all their free time raiding 6 hours a day for them.
    What would be the difference if they are blue instead of epic?
    The color defines the rarity and effort to get it, not the quality itself (this is done by item level).
    Like ZG blues were equally good as MC epics, but were blue because they didn't require the same effort.

    It's like painting your normal car red and put a Ferrari sticker on it.

  10. #10

    Re: Define Welfare epics

    I'd define welfare as anything you dont have to have a group for
    others would define it as not needing skill (4/5 s3, honor and badges)
    it depends what its used to describe

  11. #11

    Re: Define Welfare epics

    Quote Originally Posted by Sokar
    I still remember when I got my azuresong mageblade from maggmadar
    no you don't remember... Azuresong drops from Golemagg

  12. #12
    The Patient Xaith's Avatar
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    Re: Define Welfare epics

    I am somewhat happy that these "welfare" epics exist.
    Unlike many of those players complaining about it (mostly raiders, obviously) I don't have as much freetime to raid 4 days a week for 4 hours.
    I'm having exams and have to learn, so I could hardly effort enough time to raid... and frankly, I hate raiding, I don't want to be forced to kill monsters for 3 or more hours without the possibility to leave because my friend asked me out to celebrate or something. I was a hardcore raider Pre-BC, with 4 raids a week for 3 hours and I was freaking pumped about having Tier 1, Tier 2 and ZG items. But it almost ruined my life, and I'm glad I realized that before it was too late.

    So I play some PvP (because I enjoy it) and after two or three weeks of playing every now and then, I can effort one, maybe two epic items. For me, that's a long time.
    I'm greatful for the opportunity to get epic items myself without spending half of my day playing WoW.
    I know, though, that there are enough people willing to spend several hours a day and are able to buy an epic item every two or three DAYS, but I don't really care.
    Hey, the more S1 people there are, the greater the challenge in PvP.
    By the advent of Wrath of the Lich King, these items will be worthless in no time and I guess Blizzard intentionally makes it easier by now to get epic items.
    First, the casual players are happy. Second, items will be "wiped" soon, anyway.

    Er... whatever.

  13. #13

    Re: Define Welfare epics

    Quote Originally Posted by Skalu
    no you don't remember... Azuresong drops from Golemagg
    ok, mixed up the names, but I still now how he looks and where he is

  14. #14

    Re: Define Welfare epics

    To me welfare epix is anything you can hit 70 and do with pugs within a week or 2 or rep rewards.
    Karazhan, ZA(the first few is very puggable), 4/5 s3, vindicator and as said Rep rewards.

    As Xaith I'm happy they exist gives people a chance to "step up" if they want to raid instead of being lost in poor guilds for an eternity.
    "He who takes offense when no offense is intended is a fool, and he who takes offense when offense is intended is a greater fool." — Brigham Young

  15. #15

    Re: Define Welfare epics

    Quote Originally Posted by Xaith

    Hey, the more S1 people there are, the greater the challenge in PvP.
    challenge?they usually dont know how to use their class,and they wear it thinking that is epic, but its a blue pve item with a lot of sta and resilence

  16. #16

    Re: Define Welfare epics

    Quote Originally Posted by Xaith
    I am somewhat happy that these "welfare" epics exist.
    Unlike many of those players complaining about it (mostly raiders, obviously) I don't have as much freetime to raid 4 days a week for 4 hours.
    I'm having exams and have to learn, so I could hardly effort enough time to raid... and frankly, I hate raiding, I don't want to be forced to kill monsters for 3 or more hours without the possibility to leave because my friend asked me out to celebrate or something. I was a hardcore raider Pre-BC, with 4 raids a week for 3 hours and I was freaking pumped about having Tier 1, Tier 2 and ZG items. But it almost ruined my life, and I'm glad I realized that before it was too late.

    So I play some PvP (because I enjoy it) and after two or three weeks of playing every now and then, I can effort one, maybe two epic items. For me, that's a long time.
    I'm greatful for the opportunity to get epic items myself without spending half of my day playing WoW.
    I know, though, that there are enough people willing to spend several hours a day and are able to buy an epic item every two or three DAYS, but I don't really care.
    Hey, the more S1 people there are, the greater the challenge in PvP.
    By the advent of Wrath of the Lich King, these items will be worthless in no time and I guess Blizzard intentionally makes it easier by now to get epic items.
    First, the casual players are happy. Second, items will be "wiped" soon, anyway.

    Er... whatever.
    Thats where ppl go wrong in WOW, you DONT have to spend ALOT of time to be able to raid. Its THE MOST common misconception roaming around on the forums. If you find yourself a guild that is 2 steps behind the content TOP you dont have to put so much time into it. On ourt server we have 1 guild that raids MAX 2 raids a week for progress, they raid from 19:30 to 23:00 server time. thats like 9 hours a week in total. They run kara/za on the other day's but just by the ppl who are online and no one is forced to do more then those 2 raids. They are now 3 bosses down in Hyjal. And this is what blizz is trying to create with the badge gear. Ppl who spend like 10 hours a week MAX ingame are still able to do end game becuase the badges fill up the spots of gear that they would lack normally because of lack of raid time and thus drops.
    Signature removed. Please read our guidelines. Venara

  17. #17

    Re: Define Welfare epics

    Well ... if you put it that way... Legendary Weapons became welfare Legendarys aswell then (Just compare Thunderfury with the2 Warglaives nowadays)... took ages back then until someone obtained the Thunderfury Sword ... and now those Warglaives drop like crazy. No long waiting for several drops, no additional extra Boss slaying , Raid Guilds need way less effort to get their Tier loot out of those Dungeons aswell. Everything in this game is scaling towards more usability and less of a time sink. Alot of people call it nerfed or crippled already if the Trash before Raid Bosses gets a longer respawn timer, as if now it would take less skill... its just less annoying... and therefor more fun to play...
    Going for Honor PvP items is in no way to be called welfare epics. The more effort you put into it, the more you get out of it. If someone decides to go alone for Honor gear, with no interest of winning matches or team play, he will have a hard time in there. And going for 75.000 honor and all the Marks needed will be a pain. If those people get the Honor PvP Helm and maybe a weapon... what will that change if they face a premade half honor half arena gear team? Or even single opponents? Nothing. Because those who put more effort into it will still have superior gear.
    Honor gear items is a great source for people who dont like Arenas, but prefer *outdoor like* PvP encounters like AV or Arathi... If there wasnt anything nice to get as reward, it would be only half the fun. And fun is what this game should be all about.
    Cry mich ein river

  18. #18
    Bolter
    Guest

    Re: Define Welfare epics

    A "Welfare Epic" is an epic item that can be gained through little/minimal effort involved.
    i.e: S2 gear for Honor, or running a simple 5man Heroic instance (TBC)

    "Welfare Epics" have increased recently (since TBC) because of the increasing amounts of people playing WoW, so Blizzard introduced more epics to keep the newer, less experienced players + players that have little time an incentive to keep playing, so they think, "Oh look how easy getting that was. Maybe i can get another in like an hour" and they keep playing until they get there full S1/2 Gear of Honor and then the next Season is released and they farm all over again

    But i think its cool they exist but it helps increase the player base of WoW and increases the chance i get even easier people to face in Arena on my new 70 alts as they roam around arena with Epics from Underbog and Botanica with gear they've pimped out with resilience and stamina and have no awareness of how to play there class

  19. #19

    Re: Define Welfare epics

    Quote Originally Posted by Splat
    Well ... if you put it that way... Legendary Weapons became welfare Legendarys aswell then (Just compare Thunderfury with the2 Warglaives nowadays)... took ages back then until someone obtained the Thunderfury Sword ... and now those Warglaives drop like crazy. No long waiting for several drops, no additional extra Boss slaying , Raid Guilds need way less effort to get their Tier loot out of those Dungeons aswell. Everything in this game is scaling towards more usability and less of a time sink. Alot of people call it nerfed or crippled already if the Trash before Raid Bosses gets a longer respawn timer, as if now it would take less skill... its just less annoying... and therefor more fun to play...
    Going for Honor PvP items is in no way to be called welfare epics. The more effort you put into it, the more you get out of it. If someone decides to go alone for Honor gear, with no interest of winning matches or team play, he will have a hard time in there. And going for 75.000 honor and all the Marks needed will be a pain. If those people get the Honor PvP Helm and maybe a weapon... what will that change if they face a premade half honor half arena gear team? Or even single opponents? Nothing. Because those who put more effort into it will still have superior gear.
    Honor gear items is a great source for people who dont like Arenas, but prefer *outdoor like* PvP encounters like AV or Arathi... If there wasnt anything nice to get as reward, it would be only half the fun. And fun is what this game should be all about.
    The warglaives are welfare legendaries for the top guilds, the average drop rate is 12% for them, however about the honor gear, I think it is welfare same for badge loot, fora very simple reason you have 100% ensurance you will get the item you want its just a matter of time. This defines for me welfare epics. I would still prefer a system where everything is a random drop ( don know how to implement it though). The fact that I dont know what is going to drop from a boss this time is the excitement that keeps me raiding.
    Signature removed. Please read our guidelines. Venara

  20. #20

    Re: Define Welfare epics

    Pre-TBC was broken.

    You could only achieve success if you raided several nights a week. And what else was there besides raiding to do in endgame? PvP? Please, that was a joke. Battleground farming for GM/HWL. And even then you needed to spend all you spare time obtaining that title. Rank 11 - 14 was basically a daily grind of several hours in the BG's.

    In my opinion TBC has "fixed" these issues and made wow a game about skill, not time. Although we still have a long way before that expression can actually be used (Skill over gear), TBC was a step in the right direction.

    Sure, s2 gear will go for honor, but compared to the gear standard in season 4, everybody will look at s2 geared players and just call them averagely geared. With rating requirement on 70% of all the items, you now can spot those who really do arena and work for the items they buy. Just fix wintrading, pointselling and so on, and we are very close to my ideal wow.

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