Potential problem with raiding in WOTLK

[Dulba]

Already there are multiple classes/specs that complain alot about Raid spots. (most raids bring only 1 maybe 2 mages, ret pallys, prot pallys, elem shammys, DPS warriors, feral druids, boomkins).

I'm at BT and we never bring feral druids (cat form ), ret pallies and DPS warriors havn't had one in raid since kara. These specs barley ever make it in as it is now. If they choose to play that spec thats there take on WoW. I wouldn't play any of these specs now that i know as much as i do about the game. DK will just make the raid better and guilds will cut off the next weakest class.

[Asmo]

DK will just make the raid better and guilds will cut off the next weakest class.

That's the whole point of the thread I think. I agree with you wholeheartedly, DK's will have their time in the sun when it comes to tanking caster bosses, and probably as some sort of raid buffer/mob debuffer. But I think what the OP was referring to is the fact that when DK's start getting spots, the lesser specs get pushed off the table.

To me it's the price you pay for playing the way you want. No one is going to force you to play a certain spec, but if you expect to raid then you gotta sacrifice some things. Sure, 1-2 offspecs make it in to help with raid DPS as a whole, but in all honesty, they are useless in large numbers. 1 Moonkin + 1 Elesham + 3 Pure casters > 5 offspec casters. In melee groups, it's the Ret Pally, Enh Sham, or the feral druid who isn't currently tanking. Which translates roughly (very roughly) to at maximum 4-5 offspecs per raid, if that. And spriest I don't even consider offspec. They are so necessary it's not even funny.

This coming from a moonkin, so no bias here.

[CrimsonV]

Personaly I will make a dk but I don't I'll raid with it. Unless they're super cool great awesomess

Why does everyone believe DK will be the only Hero Class? That still bothers me that everyone say this and that about DK being everywhere. Unless Im wrong but isnt blizz gonna be introducing more Hero classes?

[Trollpatrol]

Why does everyone believe DK will be the only Hero Class? That still bothers me that everyone say this and that about DK being everywhere. Unless Im wrong but isnt blizz gonna be introducing more Hero classes?

Blizz said that there will be more hero classes, but not in this expansion. So DK's what you're working with for the next couple of years

[Anobix]

Beyond being the raid leader backup (or assistant raid leader, whatever) I can't see myself losing a spot as a raiding mage. My dps is normally in the top 3 (dependent on threat cap and the fight), my buffs are helpful, I bring wonderful food, and I help out fire locks with fire vulnerability.

Spriests are godly in bt/hyjal, with the introduction of haste and the need to push dps (flame caps, destro pots, etc) not needing to chug a potion/mana gem to have a shadow priest and shaman in your group is amazing. The elemental shaman totems (+3% hit, +3% crit, +102 damage) are what separate the top dpsers from the second rung dpsers in our raids (most of the time).

[flammable]

I doubt I will ever make a Deathknight my main - infact I'm quite worried about it since I'm a protection warrior. I'm hoping that DeathKnights will not be overpowered tanking wise by deathknights.

[Lesane]

it's also about players. Sucky mage < good ele sham. Sucky rogue < good fury war. Atleast when you're learning new bosses. I't skillz that killz.

PVE raiding requires a minimal amount of skills. It just requires a functional brain to spec and gear in a specific way. Then it mostly comes down to your raid setup. DPSing in this game is so insanely easy, I can teach a monkey to do it. If you can't manage to even find out how to gear or to spec, or which rotation to use, you're hopeless. Pretty much everything you need to know is done for you already, and ready to be read on various sites. The thing that makes the raiding challenging are the boss encounters and the abilities they use, not mastering your class because that can be done in less than a week. If you're getting outDPSed by a fury warrior/elemental shaman if you're a rogue/mage, you're just pathetic and you should stick to easier games (if they even exist).

It's not skills that kills, it's not being retarded that kills.

As for the DK raid spot discussion, it's hard to discuss without seeing the talents of the other classes, but you can be pretty sure 2 are going to be 'mandatory' for a raid. If they 'fix' the problem of stacking certain classes beyond 3 per raid (hello shamans), there is really nothing to worry about. What I would be more worried about is how you can fit them in groups without making a shitty raid setup. As they are melee, windfury totem will be pretty much neccesary, and the melee groups are already quite filled (1 shaman, 1 warrior, 2 rogues and then a ret pala or another rogue).

[Ntrails]

i dont see a problem either. specc pve, go get pve items, and youll find a raidspot. if you roll ret pala and youl want to go raiding (especialy random raids), you r to stupid for raids anyway.

be honest: only VERY few think "hmm i want to pve lets roll ret pala, ele shaman or spriest!" -_-

go farm your s1

Are you joking?

Spriest is a guarenteed raid spot. 5% +dmg to ALL casters. An additional 10% to those destro warlocks. Plus we regen mana allowing increased DPS in our groups.

Math. 2000 DPS by a warlock. Add a SP and you have 2300. 4 warlocks. A shadow priest does nothing but Debuff the target and brought 1200 DPS to the table.

5 other casters each doing 1500DPS. Add 5%, we have 375 DPS extra.

So My shadow priest does his own DPS (1300 at current gear levels) plus 1200 plus 375. Ignoring all mana regen I bring, I just added massive value to the raid DPS.


As for go farm your s1 - enjoy PvP as a Spriest....

Ele shaman is low use, but good ones are viable to some extent. Retri pallies, well, I think they would be more viable if melee itself were not so gimped in so many encounters. Good night.

[Wyattearpp]

SO RESPEC? god i dont understand why people expect that every spec should be good at every aspect of the game.......

Agreed 100%.

[Xheoul]

I haven't read till the last post so Im sorry if this already has been said...

What's bothering me with all these stupid posts about "omg this specc sucks for PVE" or hell, PvP or anything for that matter... You must take in consideration these two things things...

1. Playstyle: Not everyone plays the game the same, therefore some people know how to use certain specs more than others.

2. Utility: So what if you're not topping the DPS charts? sometimes The more utility you bring to the raid goes a far longer way than "AMG LET ME SEE DA BIG NUMBARS ON MAH SCREENZ"

This is the kind of garbage that is messing up the community and this game. These low-lives who troll forums, general and trade chat with their idiotic ideas and telling people how to play the game. There are certain times, however when things just DONT work out (Like this Warlock we had in Kara some months ago who was below the tank on DPS....thats just WRONG..Of course, she got removed from the raids.) But just because YOU play the game a certain way does NOT mean it's the right way. All classes and all speccs are viable in certain aspects, this does not mean however, that they may be the "top choices" but they all share their utilities.

Staying on topic... I think it's a bit too early to speculate on problems WotLK will have when it comes down to raiding, since we dont even know what the final talents and abilities will be yet... I honestly dont think ONE more class will tear balance apart and leave people without raid spots...Only irresponsible/retarded people are left without raid spots...

My 2 copper.

[bbr]

Less other classes.

Typical melee dps group :
1 warrior for MS + blood frenzy
1 rogue
1 dk
1 enh shaman
1 druid, or warrior, or rogue, or even another DK

[spud]

This thread is really lame.....now to answer the OP

The problem with raiding in WOTLK is actually going to be a series of problems

1.Everyone is gonna have a DK and want to get them in the raid soley to get the cool pve dk epic gear. This problem will be offset by a lack of "traditional" tanks, I suspect those that tank will be off to try a new dps class since more tank options will become available very much like TBC. Instead of prot pallies and bear tanks offsetting the deficient prot warrior population, Blizz will flood the servers with the tankish DK

2. DK is gonna be OP in the beginning and the encounters are gonna be easy mode, after several rounds of buffing other classes and nerfing DKs the prot warrior will ultimately make a grand come back to raiding.

3. While the pve crowd is busy dealing with the DK new comers in thier raid and learning the differences between DK specs, raid roles, and the issue with gearing competition from warriors, Blizzard will sneak in a lot of resources to get the whole e-sports pvp thing really going with the new expansion.

4. PvP will become the prize vehicle of choice to continue the company's mission of market dominance and PvE will return to same old highly exclusive activity its always been since TBC. The excess DKs will find a home in the arena along with the overabundant representatives of "off" spec classes. PvE for "mains" only while PvP is for "alts". I figure there are way more alts than mains which is why I think PvP wins.

Sounds like the expansion I'm playing now !

[Lesane]

Less other classes.

Typical melee dps group :
1 warrior for MS + blood frenzy
1 rogue
1 dk
1 enh shaman
1 druid, or warrior, or rogue, or even another DK

1 arms warrior, 1 enh shaman, 2 rogues, 1 DK. Throw the ret pally and another DK in the tank group and give them a resto shamans WF or w/e.