SK Gaming vs KJ (They used an exploit)

[Shuror]

As you see Sk didnt have adds from %25 to 0 without adds it is easymode and they already know it. Thats the reason why their mage spent 21 pts on frost talents. Sorry sk but you dont deserve this kill What a shame on you...

Or maybe the mage specced 0/40/21 because it gives slightly better single target DPS than 2/48/11. Many mages spec 0/40/21 for for example Brutallus.

[faceman126]

The only person who can say whether this is an exploit or not is blizzard.

If they intended for paladins and mages to be able to use these abilities to avoid the adds spawning then it is not an exploit.

However if this was not intended it will be hot fixed and can be thought of as an exploit.

Despite this it does not effect the legitimancy of SK's kill and its just blizzards fault for being too hasty and letting a simple flaw like this slip into this fight and SK should be in no way diminished or punished for using it to there advantage.
It was most likely luck whoch brought it to their attention anyway and at least at first they must not have meant to do it in a detrimentary way to towards the fight.

[Qwios]

It was most likely luck whoch brought it to their attention anyway and at least at first they must not have meant to do it in a detrimentary way to towards the fight.

Never been in a bleeding edge "boss strats haven't been made yet" guild as most of us haven't; However, I don't think "luck" came in to play in finding this mechanic out. Wiping for hours upon hours I imagine the players are skilled and responsible enough after the dozens of bosses of TBC to know how to methodicly test boss encounters for weaknesses to develop a strategy. That's just always how I've imagined it going down anyway... Otherwise I'd have to believe SK, Nihilum, and all the others of their class just go and faceroll till the boss dies and that's why they raid 10+hrs on a new encounter, ;D.

[LavaDuck]

SK gaming steamrolled alliance in WSG last week

/hate

[kron]

It's funny how all of these randoms who know absolutely nothing about the kj encounter commenting whether it is an exploit or not. Kara trash need not compare illhoof with kj because what we're talking about is completely different. If you've done the fight, you know it is not intended. Exploit or not, SK got the job done which is what mattered to them. I'm quite sure that they'd kill kj even if the adds spawned at 25% on their kill attempt, they were definitely lucky to have 1 significant element removed in the fight.

[Pineapple]

Clever use of game mechanics is exploiting game mechanics. It's quite simple really, considering exploiting means to using something to it's greatest advantage. Exploiting in itself really isn't bad. Depends on what you're exploiting. Exploiting a skill isn't bad at all, it's good. Means you're good at using the skill. Exploiting a bug on the other hand, is bad, that means you're cheating, sort off.
So, if you're meant to be able to iceblock or DS or whatever out of whatever KJ does, then what SK did isn't bad, it just proves they're good. But, it the adds are suppose to spawn REGARDLESS of Divine Shield and iceblock, and Blizzard just forgot to tell the spell that, then they they would've exploited a bug to win, ergo cheat. Guess we'll find out if Blizzard fixes this :o

If the kill is legit or not either ways: I don't care, fanboys can argue about that :)(

And yes, I'm one of those scrubs commenting not knowing what the hell KJ does. Just basing it on what I've read about him, and quite frankly I don't care if I'm wrong about my example, but please feel free to correct it :)

[Deleted]

Simple, if Blizzard didn't want mages, pallies (& rogues with CloS) to be able to be immune to boss abilities, then they'd change those class abilities, right?

KJ is one of many bosses in the game that targets a player briefly before casting an ability at them.

This gives that player (and the rest of the raid) a brief period to react and do something about it.

Again, intentional design. The encounter designers could just have made it so the adds appeared without anyone being targetted. Doing it the way it is introduces a bit more luck-based (depending on which classes get targetted) and makes the fight a bit more doable if you have players with quick reactions (I would hope so if they're fighting KJ).

Simple, so stop crying about it.

[Qwios]

Again, intentional design. The encounter designers could just have made it so the adds appeared without anyone being targetted. Doing it the way it is introduces a bit more luck-based (depending on which classes get targetted) and makes the fight a bit more doable if you have players with quick reactions (I would hope so if they're fighting KJ).

The details presented by the OP would suggest that the two paladins and the mage don't have quick reactions as they all used their immunity at the 55% mark, the mage then was the only one with their immunity skill up in time for the next adds call. Or that they know it's being cast but aren't quick enough to notice who it's being cast on I guess. But again, I'm just another noob who hasn't seen the fight ('cept for the movie) here talking out of my ass, but it's fun :

[vanpellt]

This forum makes me giggle.

[Nemra]

Who cares, world/solar system/universe first kills are so nerdy anyway. Lets wish them the best of luck in real life.

[aoeasy]

The difference here is that the boss used his ability on the target and then the player used his skills to get out of it, using skills to prevent a boss from using an ability is called exploiting

I cant honestly believe this post has generated this much discussion. Ice block and bubble make you immune to damage, and using them before a devastating spell (LIKE ADS) is just good use of abilities. Is it an exploit when a shs rogue can stay in on prince by using cloak and cheat death? But he's using cloak BEFORE A SPELL IS CAST TO AVOID ITS DAMAGE!! Much like any decent mage or pally would use their immune button before getting an ad cast on them?!?!

As long as blizzard keeps the ads on KJ as a cast on a player this is just a smart way to counter that.

To whoever said using abilities to prevent a boss from casting something is an exploit....seriously? Kicking shade to prevent fire or ice spells from going off, thats an exploit?

[Prophetx]

In the event that it gets hotfixed by blizzard
this means they did not intend for KJ to not spawn adds if a Mage IB/ Pally bubble - making it a bug
In this event SK gaming used the bug to their advantage to get a world 1st on KJ

And im pretty sure using a bug to ones advantage can be a clever use of a mechanic - aka exploiting.


Do you think that if rogues/pallies/mages weren't intended to be immune to certain mechanics or avoid certain mechanics they would fix it? Yes and on fights they have done so. So the argument rests on if blizzard fixes it.

[Dreamwhisper]

Using iceblock is making you immune to things.. Such as the Chains.. But I can't find 'Immune to Add Spawning' anywhere in it's tooltip

-Quote-
Yeah, just like Decursing at Atumen - It's a dispellable curse (Stop Trolling)
or Shackling the Adds for Moroes - They were meant to be Crowd Controlled, You have to kill at least a few or Moroes will reset (Stop Trolling)
or Dispelling Holy Fire in the Maiden of Virtue Fight - It was meant to be dispelled quickly or else you would just get burned to crap (Stop Trolling)
or Disorienting Strawman by doing Fire damage - He was meant to get pwnd by fire damage, Ever noticed Straw in his name? (Stop Trolling)
or Using Fear Ward for the MT in the Nightbane Fight - Nightbane uses a fear.. so why not use a fear ward? Does Fear ward prevent mobs from spawning? (Stop Trolling)
or Using (an amplified) Curse of Doom for a 30k+ hit on the Curator - A nicely timed Curse of Doom on Curator.. Why not? Does it prevent spawning adds? (Stop Trolling)
or Iceblocking/Shielding in the Demonic Chains of Illhoof - As said above in my post Iceblock and shield make you immune to attacks and spells, But I don't think their tooltips say anything about 'Preventing mob spawn'? (Stop Trolling)
or Shapeshifting out of Arans Sheep - Your a druid, the tooltip states:'Makes you immune to prollymorph effects'(I didn't intend to write that at first Best mistype ever imo Lol prollymorph) You can also trinket out of it, I don't really have an opinion about that being an exploit..(You should be good enough to prevent his mass polymorph anyway) (Stop Trolling)
or Let a Rogue enter the Green ray at Netherspite - Ehh..Whats so bad about this? Nothing states a healer MUST stand in it (Stop Trolling)
or The whole raid standing in the doorway, to avoid Malchezaars Adds - Thats an exploit.. Your first btw, And it god fixed.. Hurray for your ignorance (Stop Trolling)

Stop Trolling!

I love you ;D

[Ew]

Hm a druid used lifebloom in arena yesterday, maybe i should report him..

[Bisley]

The details presented by the OP would suggest that the two paladins and the mage don't have quick reactions as they all used their immunity at the 55% mark, the mage then was the only one with their immunity skill up in time for the next adds call. Or that they know it's being cast but aren't quick enough to notice who it's being cast on I guess. But again, I'm just another noob who hasn't seen the fight ('cept for the movie) here talking out of my ass, but it's fun :

This. They used it because they new it had a chance of happening. at 55% it hit a shaman instead. at 25%, it hit a mage. who happened to be the only person immune at the time. 1/25.

I cant honestly believe this post has generated this much discussion. Ice block and bubble make you immune to damage, and using them before a devastating spell (LIKE ADS) is just good use of abilities. Is it an exploit when a shs rogue can stay in on prince by using cloak and cheat death? But he's using cloak BEFORE A SPELL IS CAST TO AVOID ITS DAMAGE!! Much like any decent mage or pally would use their immune button before getting an ad cast on them?!?!

more like if the rogue has a 4% of preventing the entire raid from taking any shadow nova damage with his cloak of shadows. Thats a pretty low percent. But even with that percentage, would you blow your CoS and stand on an infernal if you knew you could protect the entire raid? SK got lucky. Their immunities were used properly.

However, at the rate they were raiding, even without this "luck," it looks like a relatively clean kill. Im sure if this was THAT big of hacks, they would have brought far more than just 1 mage after being 40 hours into the encounter

[Trollpatrol]

Im sure if this was THAT big of hacks, they would have brought far more than just 1 mage after being 40 hours into the encounter

Right on. If they were deliberately trying to ensure that adds didn't spawn, they would have probably brought more people that could do so. 2 pallies and 1 mage = 88% chance of it still happening, and that's assuming CDs aren't up.

It's not an exploit, stop trying to take away from SK's world first and let them have their moment

[Phreeze]

the threatstarter will never be able to write 1 single comment in the forums with his thread here^^

"omg, Lady Vashj castet <insert the name of this electro dot here> on a rogue, and he exploitet the boss on using cloak of shadows to remove it!!!!!!"

i lawled : : :

[zox]

Did it help them in the kill? Yes. Would have they been able to bring a world 1st without it? Most likely. Does it change the legitimity of their world 1st? Definitely not.

Imo this is a bug/inconsistency in the encounter which should be addressed as noone should rely on a thing in an encounter that happens in 5-20% of the case.

[protein]

anyone else ever D.I Razorgore ?

[kalimar05]

im a long time reader, first time poster because this got me interested alot.

useing game mechanics in a cleaver way is perfectly legit way to kill a boss (in MOST cases other then things like wall jumping etc). Sk Gaming killed KJ in a completly fair way. period. this IB / DS strat to aviod the adds is legal. and if blizzard fixes it, sk gaming is still the first guild to down kj. this sorta reminds me of the times in BWL where we had our tanks use the battle shout strat to keep crazy agro on the adds on Nef P1. and from what i remember at the time TAHT was considerd perfectly legit. so when blizzard nerfed the threat on BS and say it wasnt intended does that make every1 who used the strat cheaters? hell NO. same thing goes with the hunter who soloed azurgoes /w +heal gear for mend pet, and yes even MCing that mob in TK to kill void is legit in my opinion, it follows game mechanics in a completly legal way and no1 should be punished for it, if blizzard doesnt like it then they can changed the programing but the point is if blizzard changes these kinds of mechanics its not because people "exploited" its because they thought the current strats were too easy for us( and yes there is a very fine line there i know), and they want to make the encounters more challenging to players. so even thou its late GRATS Sk for the world 1rst.