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  1. #21
    Khody
    Guest

    Re: The official Paladin talent discussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by esserius
    It's after 5AM for me too. Hard to keep my eyes open.
    Touché.

  2. #22

    Re: The official Paladin talent discussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by esserius
    I'm aware of Holy Shock, and that's really nice. I just wonder if it's enough. Sorry, but my Paladin days have been very cynical. I mean, I've literally had people walk up to me and ask me why I haven't re-rolled yet. Anyway, I agree that the biggest change is the Holy Shock change.
    I consider the fact that we get like 50 percent less damage from dots also very high on the changes list.

  3. #23

    Re: The official Paladin talent discussion.

    I have to somewhat agree with the objections to the Holy 51. My healing pally isn't specced to the end of the tree now (shockadin), and I honestly don't see a reason to change that in Wrath. 48/0/23 is looking very attractive, though. I'm a fan of the Ret off-spec in general, but the synergy from the new Conviction and Sheath of Light looks too solid to pass up (another 5% crit, 60% of crit heal amounts as a HoT, the AP to SP bonus as a soloing perk and "free" bump to healing).

    I'm more excited by the Prot talents (*feign shock here*) and shifting Seals of the Pure (Imp. SoR) to be easily fit into tanking builds. Probably muse on those in detail when I'm properly rested.
    Wow Forum accomplishment: autobanned for using the following phrase:
    My therapist notes my intrapersonal skills suffer from love of the grape.

  4. #24

    Re: The official Paladin talent discussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by ActualFantasy
    I consider the fact that we get like 50 percent less damage from dots also very high on the changes list.
    Nice, but other classes are getting stuff like this too.

    The Cleanse buff for PvP seems cool though. Not being able to debuff a target could be the "new" PvP. There seems to be a lot less RNG stuff throughout all the talents in Paladins and elsewhere (other classes).

  5. #25
    Khody
    Guest

    Re: The official Paladin talent discussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by ActualFantasy
    I consider the fact that we get like 50 percent less damage from dots also very high on the changes list.
    It's only curses and diseases. Not all magic effects.

    I.E. Deathknight

  6. #26

    Re: The official Paladin talent discussion.

    Like Gestalt said retri is geting some holy love and so is prot.

    if one would spec 33points prot you will get a 30% crit heal boost.Granted that you can only spom Fol in this spec but still.. I currently have 1.1s fols that heal for 2.5k and a buff to that would be way sweet...

  7. #27

    Re: The official Paladin talent discussion.

    Ret has received very nice improvements: expecialy for PVE

    1- you dont need to judge seal of crusader on target anymore, your judgement spell will do the 3% crit efect
    2- sanctity aura 2% dmg bonus is moved to ret aura, and now afects all raid, so +2% dmg for all raid
    3- your judgement now restores 60% of dmg done as mana back up to 3 raid members
    4- we have now a 1min CC, this new repetance is very nice
    5- we have this new instant strike, "divine storm", thats do dmg in 4 target, and heal 3 raid member for 20% of dmg done
    6- Alot of increase ing dmg done, since we have a new instance strike, 15% crit dmg bonus, judgements can cause double dmg, avenging wrath now can bipass dmg reductin, reduced CD time and no forbearence, +50% crit chance on hammer of wrath that can be used on targets below 35% health, using same warrior/death knight gear as well. So lots of dmg.

    To PVP i can say:

    1- you dont need to judge seal of crusader on target anymore, your judgement spell will do the 3% crit efect
    2- can use ret aura to increase dmg, and enemies will take dmg when they hit u
    3- repetance will afect targer for 10sec now, no longer 6sec
    4- new strike that heals, "Divine Storm"
    5- gain mana as do dmg with judgements
    6- your crit heals will now give u a dot that heals u over 12sec for 20% healing done
    7- avenging wrath now can bipass dmg reductin, reduced CD time and no forbearence, +50% crit chance on hammer of wrath that can be used on targets below 35% health
    8- bless of freeadon and protection are no longer blessing, they are this HAND thing
    9- if spec some points into prot tree now, you can have a 15% strenght bonus, plus kings, 6% dmg reduction from righteous fury, and the best of all 20sec CD ON HAMMER OF JUSTICE (with arena gear).
    10- 15% increase on crit dmg, resistance to moviment imparing efects, and many other things i cant think now

    So, in my point of view its a major improvement, i doubt hear another LOLRET now, only if u are stupid

    Paladinovisk - 70 pally
    Shamanovisk - 70 Shaman
    Druidoviskk - 70 Druid
    Rogueovisk - 70 Rogue

  8. #28

    Re: The official Paladin talent discussion.

    Why is Precision missing from the talent calculator? It was never mentioned in patch notes, not as being removed, not as being moved elsewhere, so why isn't it in its usual spot, second row from the top in Protection?

  9. #29

    Re: The official Paladin talent discussion.

    I am pretty happy with the pally talents. We got a AP to spell power talent like shammies. I was expecting Hammer of Wrath and SoCom to just scale with AP like Death Knight abilites, but this is just as good (and actually gives +healing too). All the little changes are very nice. The big additions are very nice.

    Two concerns, however:

    1) Retribution aura.... its base effect sucks. Were now attaching damage output effects to a tanking type aura... don't really like the idea. And where does the 10% holy damage in sanct aura go? Was it rolled into the abilites like in all those other cases? I would have preffered they add Fanaticism Aura in place of both and make it do the 2% damage increase and also increase haste rating.

    2) Ret pallies still dont have an MS type ability, and as long as they don't, I don't see them every being viable for the best teams in the arena without a warrior in 3s or 5s.

  10. #30

    Re: The official Paladin talent discussion.

    it looks like they're taking away our mana efficiency to give us "unique" skills. instant cast HL is nice after a holy shock crit but at level 80 thats like 2.4k mana we better have like 30k mana to back it up.

  11. #31
    Khody
    Guest

    Re: The official Paladin talent discussion.

    So seal of corruption is SoV for horde now and seal of the martyr is SoB for alliance. I like it ^^

  12. #32

    Re: The official Paladin talent discussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by bigbender
    comparison

    Flourish B(e)acon of Light
    Manacost: 1125 ( without treeform) 2330
    Range: 15 yards 10 yards
    total Heal: 4410 2000
    Duration: 7 sec 15 sec
    casttime: instant 1.5 sec
    limit of Targets: 5 no limit

    Does the targetlimit really justify all the cons ?

    (p.s. i play a druid, so this is no whinepost or whatever
    p.p.s. english isn't my native language )
    Aren't there still spell power coefficients to be taken into account? And what about the fact that this is a hot on the entire raid as long as they cluster? Sounds pretty powerful to me ...

  13. #33
    Khody
    Guest

    Re: The official Paladin talent discussion.

    It sounds like with all of the abilities of classes being changed to raid wide that they are really going to be having us cluster.

    Hopefully they don't do so and then make some of the first raids full of spalsh AoE

  14. #34

    Re: The official Paladin talent discussion.

    In my opinion the paladin changes gave all specs chances to be very useful in 25 man raid, but at the same time reduced the relative usefulness of the holy paladins.

    With BoS removed and not many amazing gadgets added for the holy tree, the future raid might go with 1 retri (2% damage) 1 protect (imp devo) and 1 holy (healbot) for all the blessings and utilities, and save the healer spots for other classes.

    edit: A false assumption was made about the beacon of light spell, it is possible to have multiple beacons at any given time

    - - -

    Some questions though, what is the current situation with LoH? It now appears to be 20min CD, and the talent will reduce the CD to 0?

    As for our new holy end talent, I would appreciate it a lot more if it has bigger range, bigger heal and a longer CD.

  15. #35

    Re: The official Paladin talent discussion.

    Ret Paladin.. Heal me nau!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kish8586
    I tihnk wehn naruto uses teh spirit bomb on vegeta den he will b defeated and tehn he can fite teh homonclus taht ed made cuz he cant cuz its his mawm!!! ^______________________^

  16. #36

    Re: The official Paladin talent discussion.

    While the trees look bloated and some of the changes make me scratch my head a bit, Prot and Ret are looking like they have quite a bit more to offer. Being a tankadin I particularly like having more threat tools, but looking at the Holy tree I can't see what they're trying to achieve. Without gaining some form of actual mana regen rather than still having to rely on an outdated 60% Illumination, I can't see any way that the Instant HLs and Beacon of Light (which looks crap anyway) will be sustainable. Here's hoping that Holy gets a form of mana regen as said, or at least 100% Illumination again to try and sustain some mana. It's also pretty ludicrous that the one crit-based healing class and tank healer doesn't have an on crit buff such as Inspiration.

  17. #37

    Re: The official Paladin talent discussion.

    comparison

                    Flourish                            B(e)acon of Light
    Manacost:  1125 ( without treeform)        2330
    Range:        15 yards                            10 yards
    total Heal:  4410                                  2000
    Duration:    7 sec                                15 sec
    casttime:    instant                                1.5 sec
    limit of Targets:  5                                  no limit

    Does the targetlimit really justify all the cons ?

    (p.s. i play a druid, so this is no whinepost or whatever
    p.p.s. english isn't my native language Smiley  )
    First of all you have to know that instant spells get less +healing from your gear than 1.5s cast spell.
    The secong thing is.... it is a directed spell, which means that the aggro from healing will belong to the 'beacon man' chosen by you - that way you can easily help tank to get lots of aggro
    And the third thing: pallys usually got more int than druids + we get 60% mana from crits and we crit a lot

    So dont you worry Its seems to be an amazing talent when used properly.

    As for the other talents:

    Sacred Shield... im thrilled about this one. Sound very very cool
    Instant Holy Wrath... imagine Nightbane fight with this one... stunning all the spawned skeletons
    Divine Shield is now 12s.

    And still... i dont know what to think about new, improved BoS... Paladins are the masters of live and death now We can choose to let ppl overaggro tanks now

  18. #38

    Re: The official Paladin talent discussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by bigbender
    comparison

    Flourish B(e)acon of Light
    Manacost: 1125 ( without treeform) 2330
    Range: 15 yards 10 yards
    total Heal: 4410 2000
    Duration: 7 sec 15 sec
    casttime: instant 1.5 sec
    limit of Targets: 5 no limit

    Does the targetlimit really justify all the cons ?

    (p.s. i play a druid, so this is no whinepost or whatever
    p.p.s. english isn't my native language )
    Since Beacon of light has a cast time of 1.5 it gets more + heal added to it than the instant cast correct?

  19. #39

    Re: The official Paladin talent discussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by kraeden
    I am pretty happy with the pally talents. We got a AP to spell power talent like shammies. I was expecting Hammer of Wrath and SoCom to just scale with AP like Death Knight abilites, but this is just as good (and actually gives +healing too). All the little changes are very nice. The big additions are very nice.

    Two concerns, however:

    1) Retribution aura.... its base effect sucks. Were now attaching damage output effects to a tanking type aura... don't really like the idea. And where does the 10% holy damage in sanct aura go? Was it rolled into the abilites like in all those other cases? I would have preffered they add Fanaticism Aura in place of both and make it do the 2% damage increase and also increase haste rating.

    2) Ret pallies still dont have an MS type ability, and as long as they don't, I don't see them every being viable for the best teams in the arena without a warrior in 3s or 5s.
    Ret aura is modified by ap now I believe and the base damage is 112 so 2% damage increase and 3% haste increase is overall an amazing aura to have as a retadin (I guess you missed the fact that there is another modifying talent to retribution aura increasing haste rating by 3% to all effected[now only if it had a 40 yd range inheritly]). the 10% holy damage is the 30% of your AP is spell power talent (Sheath of Light)which also gives you a moderately high healing ability with a very high crit chance (crit/hit/haste effect both melee and caster) that gives a hot for 60% of the damage done. Also note that since Divine storm is a heal it could crit and also give you the HoT from Sheath of Light. So basically just doing DPS will heal your group. Ret/MS Warrior 2s and 3s with a resto shaman will be unbelievable because of this fact. Not only that, but bubble + heal will actually mean something especially if you get divine guardian.

  20. #40

    Re: The official Paladin talent discussion.

    Beacon of Light is a gigantic dissapointment, though it's everything I wanted to see us get put into one (Both an AoE heal, and a HoT), its not very good. Even though it will be getting 100% of spellpower bonus, thats probably still only somewhere around 6000 or 8000 total healing done over 15 seconds from a paladin in wotlk end game gear.

    Another thing that amazes me, is why are prot paladins getting a bonus healing to their critical heals, and why ret paladins are getting a heal over time off their critical heals. Both of these talents need to be in the holy tree, they will definetly do no good as deep in the other two trees as they are.

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