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  1. #21

    Re: Holy Pally - Sheath of Light vs. Kings

    Edited, because I'm bad at reading tooltips.

  2. #22

    Re: Holy Pally - Sheath of Light vs. Kings

    Quote Originally Posted by froop
    Holy Pallies aren't going to sink 61 points into Holy. And unless they head into Sheath of Light the Ret Tree is marginally useful at best.

    Add to the fact that 5% dodge isn't totally useless if you do the occasional bit PvP and the reduced cooldown is always handy for someone who gets in the wrong place at the wrong time. Or maybe even the reduced stun chance and dispell resistance when your bored and doing a BG.

    But I am sure your specs would always be better for everyone no matter their playstyle. :
    This thread has focused on the PVE usability of certain talents / talent trees and here you come, swooping in like Captain Retardo himself correcting me, saying the Prot. tree is a viable tree for PVP.

    Learn to read before venturing further into discussions on this board would you please darling, thank you.


    Again, when another Paladin is around to bless Blessing of Kings a Holy Paladin has no buisness in the Prot. tree.


    [size=14pt]Read the: Paladin - Frequently Asked Questions[/size]

  3. #23

    Re: Holy Pally - Sheath of Light vs. Kings

    Quote Originally Posted by Rawberry
    This thread has focused on the PVE usability of certain talents / talent trees and here you come, swooping in like Captain Retardo himself correcting me, saying the Prot. tree is a viable tree for PVP.

    Learn to read before venturing further into discussions on this board would you please darling, thank you.


    Again, when another Paladin is around to bless Blessing of Kings a Holy Paladin has no buisness in the Prot. tree.

    You want PvE useful Prot talents? Fine.

    Guardian's Favor, Blessing of Kings, Imp. Reighteous Fury, Divine Guardian, Imp. Devotion Aura.

    Please come back when you actually understand how to heal anything past Kara.

  4. #24

    Re: Holy Pally - Sheath of Light vs. Kings

    Ret with kings, very easy to do, no ret compomises imo. No SoC allies b/c Seal of the maytr will own.

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/talent/?paladin=05230350000331353310523135100000000000000000000000000503201000000000000000000000

  5. #25

    Re: Holy Pally - Sheath of Light vs. Kings

    Quote Originally Posted by froop

    You want PvE useful Prot talents? Fine.

    Guardian's Favor, Blessing of Kings, Imp. Reighteous Fury, Divine Guardian, Imp. Devotion Aura.

    Please come back when you actually understand how to heal anything past Kara.
    You sir, are a proper tool. Could you take the slightest moment reading my posts before you comment on them? I said

    when another Paladin is around to bless Blessing of Kings a Holy Paladin has no buisness in the Prot. tree.
    I've said NOTHING about the usefullness of the Prot. talents beond that.



    And Imp. Righteous Fury, really? Ahh, I see, because as a Holy Paladin you WANT to gain threat. Thank you for the lesson :.



    [size=14pt]Read the: Paladin - Frequently Asked Questions[/size]

  6. #26

    Re: Holy Pally - Sheath of Light vs. Kings

    Quote Originally Posted by froop

    You want PvE useful Prot talents? Fine.

    Guardian's Favor, Blessing of Kings, Imp. Reighteous Fury, Divine Guardian, Imp. Devotion Aura.

    Please come back when you actually understand how to heal anything past Kara.
    * Conviction is far, far more valuable than any of those talents.

    * Benediction is reasonably valuable due to haste-proc judgements.

    * Heart of the Crusader is a great utility bonus since you'll be judging for haste anyways.

    * PoJ is probably the most vanity-oriented, but it is actually pretty nice in moving fights. I'd take it for tanking if the new prot tree wasn't even more bloated than before.

    * A pally tank will bring Imp Devo. Holy pallies will typically be running Conc Aura anyways.

    The current standard of going deep into prot is really only for Imp Conc Aura.

    And uh... come back when you know how to heal anything past... SSC?

  7. #27

    Re: Holy Pally - Sheath of Light vs. Kings

    Quote Originally Posted by Rawberry
    You sir, are a proper tool. Could you take the slightest moment reading my posts before you comment on them? I said

    I've said NOTHING about the usefullness of the Prot. talents beond that.



    And Imp. Righteous Fury, really? Ahh, I see, because as a Holy Paladin you WANT to gain threat. Thank you for the lesson :.


    I've read your posts and ignored them because they are bad. There are plenty of other reasons to go into Prot. More so then Ret unless you're skipping Beacon and going for Sheath.

    You have bad tanks or something? All our Pallies heal with Imp. Righteous Fury on unless it's an exceptionally threat sensitive fight... because guess what.... 6% damage reduction when taking AOE damage is very handy.



    Quote Originally Posted by Tycho
    * Conviction is far, far more valuable than any of those talents.

    * Benediction is reasonably valuable due to haste-proc judgements.

    * Heart of the Crusader is a great utility bonus since you'll be judging for haste anyways.

    * PoJ is probably the most vanity-oriented, but it is actually pretty nice in moving fights. I'd take it for tanking if the new prot tree wasn't even more bloated than before.

    * A pally tank will bring Imp Devo. Holy pallies will typically be running Conc Aura anyways.

    The current standard of going deep into prot is really only for Imp Conc Aura.

    And uh... come back when you know how to heal anything past... SSC?

    Point for Conviction being useful.

    Benediction sure if you are planning on Judging to keep up the Haste Proc. I still debate whether or not its going to even be useful considering you lose a Global Cooldown to recast a Seal.

    If your raid doesn't have a Ret Pally in it in WotLK then it's bad.

    PoJ is meh.

    True. But who's to say that the Prot pally is going to be withing 30 yards of the raid. Most of your Ranged DPS are going to be at maximum range, which is greater than 30 yards.

    There is still plenty of useful things in Prot. Holy Pallies have more business being in that far than a Ret Pally does.

  8. #28

    Re: Holy Pally - Sheath of Light vs. Kings

    Quote Originally Posted by Anielin
    Ret with kings, very easy to do, no ret compomises imo. No SoC allies b/c Seal of the maytr will own.

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/talent/?paladin=05230350000331353310523135100000000000000000000000000503201000000000000000000000
    Cool I hope you enjoy doing fights such as prince/RoS with with SoM just go and kill yourself while your at it, nubtard.

  9. #29

    Re: Holy Pally - Sheath of Light vs. Kings

    Quote Originally Posted by froop

    I've read your posts and ignored them because they are bad. There are plenty of other reasons to go into Prot. More so then Ret unless you're skipping Beacon and going for Sheath.
    Have you even read the thread title?


    Quote Originally Posted by froop

    You have bad tanks or something? All our Pallies heal with Imp. Righteous Fury on unless it's an exceptionally threat sensitive fight... because guess what.... 6% damage reduction when taking AOE damage is very handy.
    It's also a 3 point talent drain that does not shine in 9 out of 10 combat situations.


    [size=14pt]Read the: Paladin - Frequently Asked Questions[/size]

  10. #30

    Re: Holy Pally - Sheath of Light vs. Kings

    Quote Originally Posted by Rawberry
    Have you even read the thread title?


    It's also a 3 point talent drain that does not shine in 9 out of 10 combat situations.
    I read the title yes. You said that Holy Pallies have no right being in the Prot tree. I stated they have every right to go in there.

    As for Imp Righteous Fury it shines in 8 of 9 in BT. The only encounter in BT where there isn't any real raid damage is Akama. Supremus doesn't have much if you don't stand in the fire, but every other fight in there has quite an amount of raid damage that this helps mitigate.

  11. #31

    Re: Holy Pally - Sheath of Light vs. Kings

    lols just armoried rawberry, and if i got the right one (only 1 male level 70 paladin with that name on eu/us/oceanic server) then you have yet to even really step into bt/mh... there is a lot to learn you have, young paladin.

  12. #32

    Re: Holy Pally - Sheath of Light vs. Kings

    friendly shattered sun, consort?
    honored HH, sha'tar, KoT? (really?)
    revered VI, LC, CE? (have you stepped in ssc?)

    pallies dont need thread space disposed of with crap from paladins that are simply bad...we advise you to roll your alt to 80 instead


    lets let the game mechanics show us how blizz intends it to play out, i dont think theyd rely on us to have a utility paladin specced a specific way to heal in the 25s but be gimped in the 10s, and vv



  13. #33
    Khody
    Guest

    Re: Holy Pally - Sheath of Light vs. Kings

    Did you guys ever stop to think that it's possible that he might have previous experience on a paladin from a seperate character?  I know that I learned all about paladins and there mechanics on my first paladin which got banned :/
    Therefore all of my old world rep isn't on level with what it wouldve been if I wasn't stupid enough to get banned.

    However, back on topic.

    I really am excited about sheath of light and all of the possibilities it's going to bring for us.
    I really want to hear some more feedback from people in the beta on the spec required to get SoL vs. Beacon.

  14. #34

    Re: Holy Pally - Sheath of Light vs. Kings

    In my opinion, whether you are going for BoL or SoL, conviction will always be a better use of talents than Blessing of Kings. You keep speaking of all the times in end game raiding that you may need slightly more mitigation from aoe blah blah blah. Conviction is good ALL them time. Gaining that extra 5% crit chance is 5% less than you need on your gear budget, meaning you can invest in other point making you a better healer in general. Every PvE healing paladin knows that you dont need 99.99999% crit chance, or 10000mp5, but gimping your own itemization possibilites for slight mitigation and a buff that the prot pally you are running with already has is a little illogical. I speak like you are almost guarnteed a prot pally because you're making aoe dmg seem a big issue, meaning you are running 25 mans, the only thing that matters in my opinion.

    To finish my post, I do believe that occasionally you, or one of your guild mates, may be asked to spec kings because you have no prot pally in this particular raid group, but to keep it in your main spec that you use for new content and such seems a little silly.

    - And always remember to Pew Pew Moar.

  15. #35

    Re: Holy Pally - Sheath of Light vs. Kings

    Quote Originally Posted by Moar Pew Pew
    In my opinion, whether you are going for BoL or SoL, conviction will always be a better use of talents than Blessing of Kings. You keep speaking of all the times in end game raiding that you may need slightly more mitigation from aoe blah blah blah. Conviction is good ALL them time. Gaining that extra 5% crit chance is 5% less than you need on your gear budget, meaning you can invest in other point making you a better healer in general. Every PvE healing paladin knows that you dont need 99.99999% crit chance, or 10000mp5, but gimping your own itemization possibilites for slight mitigation and a buff that the prot pally you are running with already has is a little illogical. I speak like you are almost guarnteed a prot pally because you're making aoe dmg seem a big issue, meaning you are running 25 mans, the only thing that matters in my opinion.

    To finish my post, I do believe that occasionally you, or one of your guild mates, may be asked to spec kings because you have no prot pally in this particular raid group, but to keep it in your main spec that you use for new content and such seems a little silly.

    - And always remember to Pew Pew Moar.

    You make it sound like Kings would be the only talent they would pick up from the Prot tree. I'm not saying conviction is bad but there is plenty of useful stuff in the Prot tree that is going to help out the raid and the indivual Paladin.

  16. #36

    Re: Holy Pally - Sheath of Light vs. Kings

    Quote Originally Posted by Khody
    I really want to hear some more feedback from people in the beta on the spec required to get SoL vs. Beacon.
    Yeh mos def, I havent heard from anyone who actually has used these yet. One person has mentioned that SoL is not working properly... but thats one person, and hasnt said where they got that from.

  17. #37

    Re: Holy Pally - Sheath of Light vs. Kings

    Quote Originally Posted by froop

    You make it sound like Kings would be the only talent they would pick up from the Prot tree. I'm not saying conviction is bad but there is plenty of useful stuff in the Prot tree that is going to help out the raid and the indivual Paladin.
    But why go for the moderatly usefull stuff when there is another Paladin around who can grab those talents?

    As it stands now Ret. Paladins and Prot. Paladins will make a more regular appearance in raids, thus Blessing of Kings and Imp. Devotion Aura will already be taken up by one of those two Paladins.
    Having said that the Holy Paladin will be better off speccing Holy / Ret because of Conviction and SoL as these alone outweigh the useability of for example Imp. RF.


    I've been trying to make this point before, and I still see no flaw in my reasoning.


    [size=14pt]Read the: Paladin - Frequently Asked Questions[/size]

  18. #38

    Re: Holy Pally - Sheath of Light vs. Kings

    *very* few Raiding Ret PvE Paladins will take anything beyond 0/5/66

    You may see some PvP variants, but there is very little reason whatsoever for a Ret paladin to take more than Divine Strength in Prot as far as what matters for Ret PvE, mainly Damage and Group/Raid Utility.

    I can see a few Ret Paladins going 0/7/64 for the 3 Minute Hand of Protection/Hand of Freedom increased Duration Talent, but that's about it.

    That does not make those Talents mentioned, in particular the 30% Damage Reduction every 5 minutes to everyone within 30 yards, any less useful to a Holy paladin. That's 30% Damage Reduction, 30%! for 12 Seconds, to EVERYONE within 30 yards...That's an incredible "Oh &*^t" ability for a Healer to have.

  19. #39

    Re: Holy Pally - Sheath of Light vs. Kings

    Sheath of Light is very situational (but yes it is going to rock ass) because when are you going to Holy Light crit a target for 10k and they will actually NEED the 6k HoT you put on them?

    I can see this being more useful for say a flash crit and you can move onto another target. Of course this goes to say that who knows what kind of damage people will be taking in WOTLK so i'm still on the fence about that one. I do like the Sheath of Light spec but if Beacon of Light does scale with spellpower like it probably is going too, I will take that over sheath simply because of the reliability of it. It's not a situational HoT, it's a HoT that you have the power to give someone versus a HoT that has a chance to be put on a target that you can't determine.

  20. #40
    Khody
    Guest

    Re: Holy Pally - Sheath of Light vs. Kings

    As it stands right now, for Holy paladins that want to be able to raid and PvP efficiently without respecs then you're definitely going to be leaning towards a SoL spec.

    Beacon of Light costs too much mana to be used in Arena as far as we know so far.

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