1. #1

    Good things abt new holy pally talent

    Hi all...

    It seem like a lot of ppls are making noise on holy pally talent for wotlk. I do think that there might be some imbalance, HOWEVER i found it might be nice new concept for holy pally which blizzard come up with... the following point are some point to ponder with.

    1) With the new talent, enlightened judgment, pally seem to be able to judge at ard 30 yard... which help the overall raid. be it JOL or JOW

    2) With this judgment judgment up we got a 10% deduction on spell cast time with the new talent, judgments of pure. that means 1.35 FOL and 2.7 HL first fast and 1.8 for seq cast.

    3) Now holy shock range is increase to 30 yard means u can use ur holy shock more efficiently.

    4) Crit holy shock also give almost of not instants HL with the new infusions of light.

    5) beacon of light is needed for raids as it will build up agro for the tanks.

    There are other nice talent in other tree like the Improved devotion as well as the sheath of lights.

    I m still waiting how blizzard will answer the mana inefficiency of pally, and i think there will be some mechanism in place by the time wotlk come.

    this is my 5 cent worth...

    cheers

  2. #2

    Re: Good things abt new holy pally talent

    Quote Originally Posted by b00n12
    Hi all...

    It seem like a lot of ppls are making noise on holy pally talent for wotlk. I do think that there might be some imbalance, HOWEVER i found it might be nice new concept for holy pally which blizzard come up with... the following point are some point to ponder with.

    1) With the new talent, enlightened judgment, pally seem to be able to judge at ard 30 yard... which help the overall raid. be it JOL or JOW

    2) With this judgment judgment up we got a 10% deduction on spell cast time with the new talent, judgments of pure. that means 1.35 FOL and 2.7 HL first fast and 1.8 for seq cast.

    3) Now holy shock range is increase to 30 yard means u can use ur holy shock more efficiently.

    4) Crit holy shock also give almost of not instants HL with the new infusions of light.

    5) beacon of light is needed for raids as it will build up agro for the tanks.

    There are other nice talent in other tree like the Improved devotion as well as the sheath of lights.

    I m still waiting how blizzard will answer the mana inefficiency of pally, and i think there will be some mechanism in place by the time wotlk come.

    this is my 5 cent worth...

    cheers
    There are some good parts and some bad parts. I've been trying to point out few of the bad ones. That includes the fact that JOL and JOW are still giving very low numbers of actual value. Ret talents and holy talents now directly contridict each other now in terms of seals. Seals were of some benefit in 40 man raids but they were not adjusted to 25 man or 10 man at all - Thus the spec that was supposed to keep em up did not get invited into raids. Its this simple.

    Beacon of light is a bad spell for paladins. If the purpose of it is to hit the tank and expect him to get extra agro from it - That will not happen. Almost every single boss in game atm has all other players at least 10 yards away from the MT. Simply because the share size of it.

    Secondly - the Beacon will act as a direct negative influence in 5 man raids. If you have a range DPS group that is taking Ticks of dmg then putting a beacon on one of the DPSers will cause them to pull agro. That is - if the healing agro goes to the beacon person... (not confirmed 100%) - The same goes if the beacon is used in raid - IT will then pull the agro OFF the tank if it is used on someone else. Thus making the spell very very very limited.

    Last but not least. Beacon is not scaling correctly to the spell power for a 1.5 sec heal. Its ticking for about 150 heal per second wich is lower than what shadow priest is healing up in 5 man groups. You do know what that means ? Its useless and most expensive 5 man healing talent around.

    If youd ask me how to make a working unique hot spell for paladin I would say - Consencration of healing effect. Same as consencration but with healing instead of dmg. Then Holy palas will have a way to directly protect the group. Beacon of light is not a protector if its causing the DPS to pull agro if they are not standing next to the tank.

    Again - u pointed out few positives - I pointed out few negatives

  3. #3

    Re: Good things abt new holy pally talent

    do agree with your point, well... still beta we will see how it turns out... anyway others share you view :P

  4. #4

    Re: Good things abt new holy pally talent

    ...so combine Beacon with the new Hand of Salvation on a ranged target to a clumped Range Group and you've got an awesome HoT

  5. #5

    Re: Good things abt new holy pally talent

    Quote Originally Posted by Daedalon

    Beacon of light is a bad spell for paladins. If the purpose of it is to hit the tank and expect him to get extra agro from it - That will not happen. Almost every single boss in game atm has all other players at least 10 yards away from the MT. Simply because the share size of it.

    Secondly - the Beacon will act as a direct negative influence in 5 man raids. If you have a range DPS group that is taking Ticks of dmg then putting a beacon on one of the DPSers will cause them to pull agro. That is - if the healing agro goes to the beacon person... (not confirmed 100%) - The same goes if the beacon is used in raid - IT will then pull the agro OFF the tank if it is used on someone else. Thus making the spell very very very limited.

    Last but not least. Beacon is not scaling correctly to the spell power for a 1.5 sec heal. Its ticking for about 150 heal per second wich is lower than what shadow priest is healing up in 5 man groups. You do know what that means ? Its useless and most expensive 5 man healing talent around.

    Let's add that it cannot crit, which goes against everything a paladin is designed for. Pull 3 points out of a generic 51/x/x build and go 48/0/23, snag yourself a Sheath of Light. Then you get a hot that's based entirely on critting, synching perfectly with the crit-centric build all healadins strive for. Oh, and the new conviction is 5% crit for spells as well; impossible to ignore. No, healadins still won't have an AoE heal by this build. Yes, they will once again become the best single-target healer in the game. Any raid leader would be an idiot to not put a Sheath healadin on the main tank.


    Oh, and Beacon of Light, at rank 5 (as is currently) also costs waaaaay too much. Let the druids flourish.
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  6. #6

    Re: Good things abt new holy pally talent

    I'm two minds about the judgement based holy talents.
    My first thought was that they are more geared for a shockadin/pvp paladin, it makes sence that if you have taken your paladin down spell damage based root you want to judge moving targets so the range is a must.
    I then thought about all the stat and general changes to the class. The hand spells force the holy paladin to be a bit more proactive and the changes to spell power mean that every holy paladin is going to have a lot of spell damage, combine that with your crit rate and the +15% righteousness and you have the power to deliver one hell of a judgement to an enemy periodically.

    It also fits in with the whole vision of the class as this power surging damage/heal hybrid. The Ret paladins even mirror this with there 51 point talent which attacks the target and heals.
    >:7

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  7. #7
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    Re: Good things abt new holy pally talent

    Quote Originally Posted by Iselian

    Let's add that it cannot crit, which goes against everything a paladin is designed for. Pull 3 points out of a generic 51/x/x build and go 48/0/23, snag yourself a Sheath of Light. Then you get a hot that's based entirely on critting, synching perfectly with the crit-centric build all healadins strive for. Oh, and the new conviction is 5% crit for spells as well; impossible to ignore. No, healadins still won't have an AoE heal by this build. Yes, they will once again become the best single-target healer in the game. Any raid leader would be an idiot to not put a Sheath healadin on the main tank.


    Oh, and Beacon of Light, at rank 5 (as is currently) also costs waaaaay too much. Let the druids flourish.

    I completely love your way of thinking. Seriously, that might be a extremely effective spec.

  8. #8

    Re: Good things abt new holy pally talent

    Quote Originally Posted by BubbaJim
    ...so combine Beacon with the new Hand of Salvation on a ranged target to a clumped Range Group and you've got an awesome HoT
    For 10 sec you will ye...

  9. #9

    Re: Good things abt new holy pally talent

    Quote Originally Posted by Iselian

    Let's add that it cannot crit, which goes against everything a paladin is designed for. Pull 3 points out of a generic 51/x/x build and go 48/0/23, snag yourself a Sheath of Light. Then you get a hot that's based entirely on critting, synching perfectly with the crit-centric build all healadins strive for. Oh, and the new conviction is 5% crit for spells as well; impossible to ignore. No, healadins still won't have an AoE heal by this build. Yes, they will once again become the best single-target healer in the game. Any raid leader would be an idiot to not put a Sheath healadin on the main tank.


    Oh, and Beacon of Light, at rank 5 (as is currently) also costs waaaaay too much. Let the druids flourish.
    Problem with sheath of light is that its ... well ... not working like the tooltip is saying... It is healing for 3 sec and not 60% in that time... Its a minor bonus that is not worth using atm.

  10. #10

    Re: Good things abt new holy pally talent

    Well if it works like the tooltip says it should (and why shouldnt it? If its not then its bugged and will be fixed? Or the tooltip will be changed), then sheath is the way to go. If thats how it is, a minor HoT added... probably not worth it at all.

    Also, where does this info come from? I havent heard that it was bugged atm

  11. #11

    Re: Good things abt new holy pally talent

    here's the thing...

    Tank, is tanking Boss, Secondary Tank is building threat, Melee DPS is whackinng away.

    Paladin drops HoT on MT, then Secondary Tank, Then a little later Melee DPS, you now have Three Pulsing Hots, ticking on those People.

    Because, the HoT may only be ableto be placed on one target, but it will heal three targets if it's placed on all three targets.

    Atleast, that's how *I* Read the spell.

    Tank 1 Heals everyone around him for 2000 damage over 15 seconds + Spell co-effcient and other mods

    Secondary Tank Heals everyone around him for the same amount

    Melee Heals everyone around him for the same amount...

    That's ALOT of stacked healing, and if there more than 5 characters in that area, you have some pretty hot damn AoE healing going on, and who says it can't crit? Has that been verified yet? And if it can't, well, so what? that's still some impressive raid healing going on...

  12. #12

    Re: Good things abt new holy pally talent

    Let's get a few things straight here...

    For one, this is a Beta and things are bound to change in Beta's, we all know this. Some abilities will change, some will disappear, and some will go through live untouched.

    The point is, until the game actually is on the shelves, I wouldn't be too worried about what does this and what does that. I've read in several post that Beacon doesn't "scale" even though it's a 1.5 second cast. Well for one, no one is level 80, so it was most likely tested on the earlier rank which only does 960 (i think) over 10 seconds. So if you say it did 150 a second, that is scaled with spellpower. Of course this is assuming that's the rank they are using but who knows. My roomate has the beta and I'm going to get him to test Beacon for me.

    One thing I do know is, we're not going to be disappointed and here's an example:

    My roomate Shankster asked a Holy Pally to heal him because I wanted to see what the changes were so he did the following: Popped 2 healing trinkets and Avenging Wrath --> Holy Shock for 4k crit ---> Instant Holy Light for ~11k crit

    Just wait for the expansion guys, i guarantee you you'll be happier than you are disappointed...and things change, some people got serious nerfs (i.e. CoH for priests put on a 6 second cooldown) so just be glad we've gotten some incredibile buffs! (40 yard holy shock! oh yeah!)

  13. #13

    Re: Good things abt new holy pally talent

    A question as im curious,

    As its a heal over time spell with a casting time, shouldn't it get the highest spell co-effecient?

    Every other HoT bar one (i think at the time of writing) is an instant cast. Surely this one with the cast time needed to use it be the best scaling with spell power?

    hmm..

    Armoury Link

    Nil desperandum! Always follow the Light

  14. #14

    Re: Good things abt new holy pally talent

    Quote Originally Posted by meroko
    My roomate Shankster asked a Holy Pally to heal him because I wanted to see what the changes were so he did the following: Popped 2 healing trinkets and Avenging Wrath --> Holy Shock for 4k crit ---> Instant Holy Light for ~11k crit
    I am speccing my holy paladin 48/0/23 to get 3/3 Sacred Cleansing and 3/3 Sheath of Light. It's going to be even better than what you quoted!

    Healing trinket (s) + avenging wrath -> HS crit (say 4K) -> divine favor + insta-HL crit for 11K -> 6.6K HOT

    Mind you, that's not counting the extra spell power from Sheath of Light (+30% AP -> spell power), which would make those heals even higher. I'm picking up Imp BOM just for that (+220AP @ 70 -> +77 spell power)

    GAWD, I really don't care about any of the other crap :P

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