Here's what would happen if rogues had prot spec. and warriors lost prot.

[Snes]

Don't really see many saps being used in raids these days.

[Ahildan]

haha nice argument

[Dulba]

That rogue that tanks all those bosses , untouchable or something, that is insane . If i could do that I would tank anything or at least try on my rogue.

[Camellights]

And as far as threat goes, fury warriors get a total 20% passive threat reduction with imp. berserker stance and furious resolve, which means we don't need to waste rage on a feint-type ability and can keep dpsing our hearts out, whereas rogues need to use 20 energy for feint on a 10 sec. cooldown if their threat gets too high. Unless you have a utility/shadowstep rogue in the raid which isn't as likely but you never know I guess.

LOL Its called vanish, only nub rogues who im sure you run with all the time waste energy on feint. People need to l2rogue alot and those of us who play it well are getting tired of all the nubs re-rolling um.please stop thank you.

[Morodeer]

Anyway, don't u guys want to test every tree? What's the point that there will be alot of DKs? they'll be similar to paladins. How much of pals are prot? 10%? 15%? same with all classes that can tank. Warriors, paladins, druids, and now DKs. How many of them would like to tank? I can say just that i will stay tanking, though I didn't reach any serious content, lvled my war too late...
If you can dps, and many people have seen u dpsing, then u can have a spot in raid or party etc. But if u can't dps normally, l2dps

[Snes]

LOL Its called vanish, only nub rogues who im sure you run with all the time waste energy on feint. People need to l2rogue alot and those of us who play it well are getting tired of all the nubs re-rolling um.please stop thank you.

I posted that like 26 hours ago, I stopped a ways back.

[sbarro77]

if a fury war is in the top 3 of your dps, the rest of your dps is bad end of story.

[Snes]

The argument will never end lol.

[Utal]

Fury warriors are only good when they are the best geared in the raid.
Then again so are Hunters/warlocks/rogues.

Warriors are more succesful as tanks in PvE, be lucky you can fill that highly wanted roll.

Pets new tanks 2 kk?

[Loliiten]

A fury warrior offers little to a group other than straight dps, and at that usually at higher threat, especially for shorter fights. Shouts are something you could argue as utility, but a prot warrior also offers those, albeit not improved from talents.


All in all, if my group is looking for a tank, it would be specifically stated so, and the fictional conversation would never occur. And furthermore, if I had already filled the tank and CC positions, I would have no qualms with bringing a fury warrior, as long as he knew what he was doing. The main issue is though, can you ever have enough CC? ;D

CC = huge waste of time as it is atm one mage is sufficient in most heroics imo.

[nemesisevil]

Warriors have the best AP buff in the game, offer 25% better shouts than the tanks, can sunder/TC/demo/possibly disarm/off tank most things in 10 mans if the tank's a paladin or a druid and they can give every SINGLE melee in the raid a 4% damage bonus to all melee attacks including white hits. Put this altogether I say we're just as good as rogues when it comes to a worthy spot in a raid. We may not top the Dps meters with the l33t rogues but we do offer far greater utility against bosses....


Oh yeah..... aoe trash mobs.

[Varithorn1]

Warriors have the best AP buff in the game, offer 25% better shouts than the tanks, can sunder/TC/demo/possibly disarm/off tank most things in 10 mans if the tank's a paladin or a druid and they can give every SINGLE melee in the raid a 4% damage bonus to all melee attacks including white hits. Put this altogether I say we're just as good as rogues when it comes to a worthy spot in a raid. We may not top the Dps meters with the l33t rogues but we do offer far greater utility against bosses....


Oh yeah..... aoe trash mobs.

Disarm is useful against Attunemen the Huntsmen in KZ...only if his 2k hits r too crazy for you. You also need more periods and commas btw.

[Kirrho]

seriously, how can people just choose to neglect that the last three years of world of warcraft, you have seen warrior movies in endgame doing the most insane DPS in fights! and topping the dmg meter by far.
this is due to the fact that warriors DO have the highest possible damage output, it just depends on the gear and the timing.
remember theese movies?

George fury warrior with thunderfury on nefarian, raping everything.
Decimator on patchwerk doing what? 1.5k dps and noone else was close to that at the time?

in TBC i have not really seen any of theese kinds of movies except some slam warrior in BT , but i know from playing warrior myself and knowing that alot of other people feel the same, that fury warriors CAN do equal damage to a rogue if played right! christ sake, get your eyes open and stop neglecting the fury warriors!

on a side note, as i play ms warrior myself for arena purposes, i havent done a single 5 man all TBC without winning the damage meter. and beeing able to offtank quite efficiantly and / or take over if MT dies couse im usually at top threat right under the MT anyway i just switch to shield etc and take it from there.

[Varithorn1]

pre bc dps means nothing if it gets changed/nerfed to oblivion. pre wotlk too

[Kirrho]

pre bc dps means nothing if it gets changed/nerfed to oblivion. pre wotlk too

just simply answering the guys saying they'd rather take a rogue or whatever, which i would never do creating a grp, as i find rogue the most unneeded class in the whole game for 5 man instances. sure they have high dps, but that's not needed to be quite honest. i'd rather get through the instance than having trigger happy rogues everywhere.

[nemesisevil]

Disarm is useful against Attunemen the Huntsmen in KZ...only if his 2k hits r too crazy for you. You also need more periods and commas btw.

This is a forum not an English exam...

[Spoonerism]

in terms of utility a rogue cant mount a sword and board mid combat and try to tank a loose trash mob or low hp boss if the MT has died....a warrior can just as a feral druid could be doing dps in cat form and then go bear to do the same(the difference being starting with less rage as a druid). I appreciate this hardly means the tank will be crush/crit immune vs raid bosses but its better than letting it tear through your clothies...

ofc a rogue can also evasion tank in the same situation, but is pretty much dead when evasion wears off.

any dps warrior who doesnt carry a shield and a 1h weapon for tanking is pretty foolish, most I have seen have a full tanking set in their bags which can be changed at a moments notice out of combat. all good PVP warriors seem to have the current pvp shield and a 1h for those insta swap + spell reflect macros, or just for when being focused to live longer...

IMO most death knights wont be a pure tank spec, which is why Blizz seems to be trying to make it possible to tank regardless of spec(certainly having looked at talents it doesnt look like just frost talents help tanking). I know when I roll one I want to first try unholy as its the closest this game will have to a summoner class.

[Newor]

seriously, how can people just choose to neglect that the last three years of world of warcraft, you have seen warrior movies in endgame doing the most insane DPS in fights! and topping the dmg meter by far.
this is due to the fact that warriors DO have the highest possible damage output, it just depends on the gear and the timing.
remember theese movies?

George fury warrior with thunderfury on nefarian, raping everything.
Decimator on patchwerk doing what? 1.5k dps and noone else was close to that at the time?

in TBC i have not really seen any of theese kinds of movies except some slam warrior in BT , but i know from playing warrior myself and knowing that alot of other people feel the same, that fury warriors CAN do equal damage to a rogue if played right! christ sake, get your eyes open and stop neglecting the fury warriors!

on a side note, as i play ms warrior myself for arena purposes, i havent done a single 5 man all TBC without winning the damage meter. and beeing able to offtank quite efficiantly and / or take over if MT dies couse im usually at top threat right under the MT anyway i just switch to shield etc and take it from there.

There is your Warrior "CC"/"Sap". And Blizzard clearly shows that with their statements about arms/fury viable tanking. You need CC 'cause probably the only one in your group who could stand the damage is the tank. One more class that can handle damage (OT) is one less CC needed. Simple as that. Not to mention the much better chance of surviving if the tank dies.

[Deleted]

And as far as threat goes, fury warriors get a total 20% passive threat reduction with imp. berserker stance and furious resolve, which means we don't need to waste rage on a feint-type ability and can keep dpsing our hearts out, whereas rogues need to use 20 energy for feint on a 10 sec. cooldown if their threat gets too high. Unless you have a utility/shadowstep rogue in the raid which isn't as likely but you never know I guess.

Do you play a warrior or a rogue? Warrios always have threat problems even if they can't dps wlocks,hunters and rogues (which they can't with equal gear if the others just know how to play lol). As a rogue I haven't used feint for ages, in fights where you need to limit your threat (like bloodboil) you can just stop doing rupture for example if you seem to be catching up the tanks not to mention vanish when the boss is around 70% and you won't have problems for the rest of the fight.